To Review or Not to Review -- THAT is the Question
- Thread starter lfigueroa
- Start date
LF,
Thanks for the review, just what I wanted (and way better and less antagonistic than I would have fabricated for you
).For me the pivot after setup is a deal breaker. I have experimented with pivoting in the air, but again it seems imprecise. I can't imagine that pivoting would not add thousands of hours to the already huge requirement for pro level precision - I'm too old to add such hours.
The person that tried to teach me this system over 4 to 5 hours, proposed it as a totally easy system, that would yield immediate and miraculous results, and was good for all shots with no adjustment. I did not find that to be true.
The beauty of a "ghost ball" aiming system is that your pre-shot routine can always be the same, your setup almost always the same (depending on stretch requirements or obstructions), and your stroke can be relatively the same. All you have to do is pick out the line-of-travel of the cue ball before you get down, then focus all of your energy and efforts on sending the cue ball EXACTLY down that line - to me a relatively simple task compared to the difficulties and adjustments inherent in CTE.
Thanks.
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LF,
Thanks for the review, just what I wanted (and way better and less antagonistic than I would have fabricated for you
For me the pivot is a deal breaker. I have experimented with pivoting in the air, but again it seems imprecise.
The person that tried to teach me this system over 4 to 5 hours, proposed it as a totally easy system, that would yield immediate and miraculous results, and was good for all shots with no adjustment. I did not find that to be true.
The beauty of a "ghost ball" aiming system is that your pre-shot routine can always be the same, your setup almost always the same (depending on stretch requirements or obstructions), and your stroke can be relatively the same. All you have to do is pick out the line-of-travel of the cue ball before you get down - to me a relatively simple task compared to the difficulties with the CTE.
Thanks.
Thank you. Actually, I now wished I had saved a first draft. It was, how shall I say... much more in my usual writing style
But, in my old age I've mellowed.And I agree: the pivot is a total deal breaker because it alters your stroke setup without regard to how accurate it makes your stroke delivery.
Lou Figueroa
I think the endless loop of them "proving" that they could make shot after shot using pro one was what got me. I felt all that time should have been spent explaining the details of the system.
I too thought that perhaps the system was kept so vague so that no one could say that it doesn't work. They could only say that the shots definitely aren't going but maybe it's because I don't understand it.
I can honestly say that watching the DVD the three times I did was the most painful viewing of anything I've ever seen on screen.
I couldn't even bring myself to sell it cuz I felt too guilty. I put it up for trade and got old DVDs for it.
One more thing. I think Lou makes the DVD sound way better than it really is. It sounds like there is more content than there really is. Like the banking section was something I looked forward too. It was over in the blink of an eye.
I don't say all this out of spite. Just because I care about people and don't want them to go through the agony.
I too thought that perhaps the system was kept so vague so that no one could say that it doesn't work. They could only say that the shots definitely aren't going but maybe it's because I don't understand it.
I can honestly say that watching the DVD the three times I did was the most painful viewing of anything I've ever seen on screen.
I couldn't even bring myself to sell it cuz I felt too guilty. I put it up for trade and got old DVDs for it.
One more thing. I think Lou makes the DVD sound way better than it really is. It sounds like there is more content than there really is. Like the banking section was something I looked forward too. It was over in the blink of an eye.
I don't say all this out of spite. Just because I care about people and don't want them to go through the agony.
Thank you. Actually, I now wished I had saved a first draft. It was, how shall I say... much more in my usual writing style
And I agree: the pivot is a total deal breaker because it alters your stroke setup without regard to how accurate it makes your stroke delivery.
Lou Figueroa
Really a half tip of movement changes everything, a deal breaker.
Roger, I love a "can't win" situation
And so, here’s my review
I tried watching the DVD with an open mind. But frankly, very quickly, the DVD became painful to watch. There is a thimbleful of basic info, followed by endless loops of shot demonstrations, often repeated a second time, and a couple of break and runs, all edited without a miss.
Here’s the good stuff: Stan teaches you a PSR. He tells you to offset your body, establish contact with the cue with your bridge hand and slide into the shot in a consistent manner. Good solid stuff, no doubt, but hardly news worthy. (Having just watched the video of his 183 ball run at the DCC, it is surprisingly similar to Darren Appleton’s PSR.) He even goes into a suggested shot routine (eye movement and warm up strokes) which was also some good stuff.
And I think that’s why some folks find success with the systems outlined on the DVD: they are adding some consistency to their pre-shot and shot routines. That, and what all this edges and centers stuff does is: *it forces you* to look -- and I mean *really look* -- at the cue ball and object ball. It is something tyros and advanced players can benefit from. So, all of that taken together is probably worth some serious improvement to a wide range of players. But that’s about it.
The bad part is that there is movement of the cue after you’re down. Or even with the air/body pivots, alignments that may or may not benefit you as an individual player. IOW, they may work for Stan, Landon, and Stevie, but not necessarily for many others. (I think that actually, for the camera, they could make it work shooting between their legs
And, in all probably, that little pivot is going to mess with your cue delivery. If you don’t believe me take a close look at the *huge* sideways movement of his cue, hand, forearm, elbow, and bicep when Stan demonstrates for the use of BHE. None of that is good for a good consistent repeatable and accurate stroke that won’t break down under the heat.
The systems themselves reminded me, by and large, of some of the 3C systems I’ve seen diagrammed over the years. You know: the ones where you put all kinds of numbers on the diamonds and corners, check the path/line the balls are on, do some rudimentary math, and viola! You can’t miss the shot. Of course that only works under perfect conditions and after you’ve done some major experimentation.
And so you have a DVD that contains a modicum of basic system info -- which I think Dr. Dave has done an excellent job of summarizing -- and then an endless loop of Stan, Landon, and Stevie, shooting shot after shot demonstrating how, if you make the right choices, you will not miss and the system will work for you.
The chapter on banks is… problematic. Banks are fired in by all participants, after you are told the right formula for various positions on the grid, but without any insight into how those formulas were arrived at for the appropriate aim point on the rail. And, of course, according to the DVD, the system works flawlessly not only for banks, but jump shots, break shots, caroms, and paper thin cuts (with an adjustment and a surprising amount of small print that basically explains how you’re on your own on these shots.) I was surprised it wasn’t claimed that it was perfect for masse shots too
And so, bottom line: the systems can and will be whatever the player wants them to be.
Sometimes the pivot is obvious; sometimes not; sometimes the body turns, sometimes it does not; bridge length -- pick one; amount of pivot -- till it looks right; back hand English can be used with gay abandon, to a point, if you pivot just so; and, according to the DVD, of course you can use the systems for everything from the lag shot to five ball combo kick banks (just kidding on that last one, but just barely).
IOW, if you work with it long enough you can make it work, but only because you’ve played with it so long that you eventually make all the necessary intuitive adjustments for any kind of success. Oh yes, and it seems that if you get outside the realm of a minimal use of English, to “get the cue ball off the object ball,” you are, once again, on your own. There is a very quick screen that does come up to mention (almost in passing), that English can be important for positional play. Who knew?
If you think the DVD is going to provide you with a definitive proof that these systems are scientifically and/or geometrically precise -- you can lose that thought right now, it’s not there. If you think you’re going to learn some aiming system that is going to make you a successful player in short order, forget that too -- to make these puppies work you are going to have to study, memorize, experiment, and put in loooooong hours (you’ll probably need to make a phone call or two, and probably sign up for a lesson or three). And you need to realize that all that system induced movement before and after you get into shooting position could send you down a path -- which depending on your devotion to the system -- from which you may never emerge and could possibly (probably) keep you from ever being as good a pool player as you might otherwise be.
Which brings me to this: overall, there is a part of me that wants to say that, perhaps, there is some (much) key info kept purposely fuzzy, because there is *no way* you could put this out in the marketplace and expect people -- that had no prior knowledge and understanding of the system -- to succeed. If you want “to believe” after watching this DVD you are almost compelled to contact Stan, because IMO, it certainly does not stand alone as advertised.
One last thing: I have no doubt that Stan really and truly believes in what he’s teaching. IOW, I do believe his work on these systems is a sincere effort to further pool knowledge and help the players watching it. But, I think he’s gone too far down the aiming system Rabbit Hole and perhaps can no longer see that his systems are highly inexact, or at least presented in an inexact manner on the DVD, and for many a dead end, or worse, a problem inducing course of endeavor.
For me, in all honesty, if Mosconi hisself came back from the grave and told me this was the greatest thing since sliced bread I’d tell him to go back and take a nap. This one is not a keeper, for me, and if anyone wants to buy a lightly used copy for $30, shipping included, please PM me for a PayPal address.
Lou Figueroa
all the above
JMHO, of course
Just what I expected.
Did you get a dvd Roger?
Roger, I love a "can't win" situation
And so, here’s my review
Snipped...
Lou Figueroa
all the above
JMHO, of course
Thanks for your review Lou. I agree with you on many points.
Yes I did.
Thank you for honesty in your review.
This thread had me on the verge of replying Post or AirBarrel. *shutting down photoshop, and putting away that milk carton jpg.*
I dub thee Karl Malone, as you deliver. There has been too many bad postings on hairdildos and x-rays that never see the light of day. Your review made up for all that.
BTW, can you post a copy in Review Section, so it doesn't get buried in the main forum.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=84
This thread had me on the verge of replying Post or AirBarrel. *shutting down photoshop, and putting away that milk carton jpg.*
I dub thee Karl Malone, as you deliver. There has been too many bad postings on hairdildos and x-rays that never see the light of day. Your review made up for all that.
BTW, can you post a copy in Review Section, so it doesn't get buried in the main forum.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=84
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abandon thread!
What the hell are you saying since you are "trying" to develop a CTE system called Same Aim? Oh, I get it now. If Stan's CTE/Pro One is put down you think that might elevate your CTE Same Aim. My mon told me something long ago that your mom should have told you. You can't make yourself taller by cutting off the legs of someone else. Your comment is really sad, Randy.
Hmmmm.
I found the review to be quite detailed, straightforward, and scholarly.
I felt that sharing his opinion was in no way classless (it is the stated purpose of the forum to share opinions).
As much as I enjoy viewing the buns of the scantily clad babe in your avatar, I am wondering if your definition of "class" is really that of the mainstream students of the game. I am positive that your definition of low life needs refinement if it includes Lou.
Post in bad taste.
I'm quite sure that Randy is simply thanking Lou for his participation, nothing more. Some folks here can be reasonable and act like an adult. Randy is one of them.
i call it like i see it! sorry if it bothered you and im out of this thread :thumbup:
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Lou, do you see the same problem(s) with back-hand english, front-hand english, or a combination of both?
Exactly. I for one have left the CTE believers to pray at their own altar. I don't have to believe in Scientology to allow others to practice in peace.
Nick
Nick