i recently have purchased a joe tucker aiming tool...i realized that where i thought the center of the cueball was....wasnt....but now im trying to shoot it properly....and now EVERYTHING is off....for example....when im shooting a straight on shot....i have to aim slightly to right(cutting slightly to left) of what looks like straight in.but its straight in...i guess just an optical illusion.......i guess i have to relearn all my shots...how can i use this information to get my body and head inline so im hitting the center...AND so my shots appear to be straight?
todays question...sighting...and vision...
- Thread starter jcpoolgod
- Start date
You are dealing with dominance and assistance issues caused by the convergence of the 2 fields of vision. Geno's perfect aim addresses proper head placement and may be a quick path to getting you fixed up. Otherwise you can just keep aiming a bit to the right and you will eventually train your brain.
The hardest issue is that you have visual and physical references that you have built up over the years for where to put your head in relation to the cue and your body. These can be relearned thru trial error and repetition or getting some help from Geno... If you want to work on it thru trial and error I would suggest getting a mirror and putting a vertical line of tape down it so you can actually see as well as feel the changes you make.
The hardest issue is that you have visual and physical references that you have built up over the years for where to put your head in relation to the cue and your body. These can be relearned thru trial error and repetition or getting some help from Geno... If you want to work on it thru trial and error I would suggest getting a mirror and putting a vertical line of tape down it so you can actually see as well as feel the changes you make.
I think proper visual alignment is an extremely important (and often neglected) fundamental of pool.
FYI, I just finished a three-article series for Billiards Digest focusing on aiming, visual alignment, and sighting. Check them out:
“Aim, Align, Sight - Part I: Introduction and Ghost Ball Systems” (Billiards Digest, June, 2011).
“Aim, Align, Sight - Part II: Visual Alignment” (Billiards Digest, July, 2011).
“Aim, Align, Sight - Part III: Sighting” (Billiards Digest, August, 2011).
“Aim, Align, Sight - Part II: Visual Alignment” (Billiards Digest, July, 2011).
“Aim, Align, Sight - Part III: Sighting” (Billiards Digest, August, 2011).
Part II has many illustrations and a recommended drill to help people understand and find their "vision center." You and others might find this interesting and useful.
Regards,
Dave
If i may ask what aiming product of Joe Tuckers did you purchase? The best one by far has to be his Magic Eye or the Laser Trainer.
great idea...and ps i have genos dvd already...i never really got to the table to much with it..maybe ill watch it again..
it was the third eye...just the cheap lil tool you you attach to the end of the cue..
Parallax
I read your second BD article last weekend and the key bit of information of help was the significance of moving the eye sights closer together. That is both eyes are not equal distance from the cue ball. I think that was also mentioned in some of the CTE thread posts.
I had been making about a quarter tip adjustment at the cue tip then pivoting to aim. Pretty good but did not deliver for the long shot. My aim is to eliminate the parallax in order to view the shot directly.
I am summarizing my pool journal notes and have a first draft for parallax. I came up with a method that seems quite good. But back to the table Monday to confirm words, sighting offset and advantages. Or outright errors.
Parallax
Parallax or parallax error is an apparent displacement or difference in the position of an object viewed along two different lines of sight. In pool these lines are from each eye. The effect of parallax needs to be taken into account. This is more readily noticed in a longer shot. If you practice regularly yet miss longer shots, look into a sighting adjustment for correction. Note that a 1 inch error in the target for a 57 inch shot length is one degree. So an error of this amount may be negligible for a shot half this length.
Use a 4 to 6 foot straight stop shot. Line up the shot with marks on the table for repetition. Using your normal stance, line up the shot till you are in dead alignment. If you are in the habit of making slight adjustments, do not make them here. Close your weak, non dominant eye. Your shot will look somewhat off as your dominant eye attempts to capture proper alignment. Notice that you are off alignment and how far off. Shoot the shot without adjustment and note the result. Repeat five times or so for confirmation.
Parallax incorporates an error in sighting. In effect you are not accurately seeing where the cue is aimed and that causes the cue ball to consistently go to one side of your target. It is caused by not having your sighting eye, or both eyes as the case may be, in line with the true line of aim that extends straight down the cue, through the center of the cue ball and on to the spot where you want the cue ball to go.
Consistently positioning your eyes at the same location relative to the Cue Ball and knowing what your view looks like when you have the cue correctly aimed will reduce or eliminate parallax error.
My eyes are not aligned properly. A moderate head turn right of about 2 degrees provides the offset to see the shot as it really is. That is both eyes are not equal distant from the Object Ball. And the result is that along the shot line my eyes are slightly closer together. The trick is just how much to turn your head, in what direction and how to lock in the final value. The following is to adjust for hitting the OB slightly left of pocket aim line by a slight right turn of the head.
Straight Shot for Right Handed Player to Determine Sighting Offset
1 Place the rear foot bone or big toe in line with Cue Ball center and Object Ball contact point. That is the point furthest from the desired entry point of the pocket.
2 Get down and focus eyes slightly right say to the right by the amount below *.
3 Keep head aligned in this position and keep your eyes on this spot.
4 Move your eyes only to focus on the Object Ball contact point. Confirm by sighting between contact point and pocket entry point a couple of times.
5 With right hand cradling the stick perform a warm up stroke or two.
6 Settle in and confirm alignment unconsciously, then deliver a smooth stroke.
7 Note if the Object Ball hits left or right of the desired pocket entry point.
8 For right of pocket entry the sighting offset _____.
* Keeping your desired stroke length constant, sequence eye alignment from 1 tip, 2 tips, CB edge, Edge plus 1 tip. Repeat until the Object Ball enters directly on the desired pocket entry point. Alternatively a 6 inch ruler can be placed on the shooters side of the cue ball. Then sequence say in 1/2 inch increments. Whatever the final result, you need a convent method or sight point to reproduce this distance.
If you are fine tuning the process you can repeat with your longest, normal and shortest bridge lengths.
My normal bridge length is a sighting offset of one half ball to the right.
Shot for Right handed player
1 Place the rear foot in line with Cue Ball center and Object Ball contact point. That is the point on the Object Ball furthest from the desired entry point of the pocket.
2 When getting down, focus eyes directly on the outside edge of the Cue Ball.
3 Maintain head alignment and eyes in this position.
4 Move eyes only to focus on the Object Ball contact point. Confirm by sighting between contact point and pocket entry point a couple of times.
5 With right hand cradling the stick perform a warm up stroke or two.
6 Settle in and confirm alignment subconsciously, then deliver a smooth stroke.
Drill this information a half hour a day until it becomes automatic and part of your routine.
I read your second BD article last weekend and the key bit of information of help was the significance of moving the eye sights closer together. That is both eyes are not equal distance from the cue ball. I think that was also mentioned in some of the CTE thread posts.
I had been making about a quarter tip adjustment at the cue tip then pivoting to aim. Pretty good but did not deliver for the long shot. My aim is to eliminate the parallax in order to view the shot directly.
I am summarizing my pool journal notes and have a first draft for parallax. I came up with a method that seems quite good. But back to the table Monday to confirm words, sighting offset and advantages. Or outright errors.
Parallax
Parallax or parallax error is an apparent displacement or difference in the position of an object viewed along two different lines of sight. In pool these lines are from each eye. The effect of parallax needs to be taken into account. This is more readily noticed in a longer shot. If you practice regularly yet miss longer shots, look into a sighting adjustment for correction. Note that a 1 inch error in the target for a 57 inch shot length is one degree. So an error of this amount may be negligible for a shot half this length.
Use a 4 to 6 foot straight stop shot. Line up the shot with marks on the table for repetition. Using your normal stance, line up the shot till you are in dead alignment. If you are in the habit of making slight adjustments, do not make them here. Close your weak, non dominant eye. Your shot will look somewhat off as your dominant eye attempts to capture proper alignment. Notice that you are off alignment and how far off. Shoot the shot without adjustment and note the result. Repeat five times or so for confirmation.
Parallax incorporates an error in sighting. In effect you are not accurately seeing where the cue is aimed and that causes the cue ball to consistently go to one side of your target. It is caused by not having your sighting eye, or both eyes as the case may be, in line with the true line of aim that extends straight down the cue, through the center of the cue ball and on to the spot where you want the cue ball to go.
Consistently positioning your eyes at the same location relative to the Cue Ball and knowing what your view looks like when you have the cue correctly aimed will reduce or eliminate parallax error.
My eyes are not aligned properly. A moderate head turn right of about 2 degrees provides the offset to see the shot as it really is. That is both eyes are not equal distant from the Object Ball. And the result is that along the shot line my eyes are slightly closer together. The trick is just how much to turn your head, in what direction and how to lock in the final value. The following is to adjust for hitting the OB slightly left of pocket aim line by a slight right turn of the head.
Straight Shot for Right Handed Player to Determine Sighting Offset
1 Place the rear foot bone or big toe in line with Cue Ball center and Object Ball contact point. That is the point furthest from the desired entry point of the pocket.
2 Get down and focus eyes slightly right say to the right by the amount below *.
3 Keep head aligned in this position and keep your eyes on this spot.
4 Move your eyes only to focus on the Object Ball contact point. Confirm by sighting between contact point and pocket entry point a couple of times.
5 With right hand cradling the stick perform a warm up stroke or two.
6 Settle in and confirm alignment unconsciously, then deliver a smooth stroke.
7 Note if the Object Ball hits left or right of the desired pocket entry point.
8 For right of pocket entry the sighting offset _____.
* Keeping your desired stroke length constant, sequence eye alignment from 1 tip, 2 tips, CB edge, Edge plus 1 tip. Repeat until the Object Ball enters directly on the desired pocket entry point. Alternatively a 6 inch ruler can be placed on the shooters side of the cue ball. Then sequence say in 1/2 inch increments. Whatever the final result, you need a convent method or sight point to reproduce this distance.
If you are fine tuning the process you can repeat with your longest, normal and shortest bridge lengths.
My normal bridge length is a sighting offset of one half ball to the right.
Shot for Right handed player
1 Place the rear foot in line with Cue Ball center and Object Ball contact point. That is the point on the Object Ball furthest from the desired entry point of the pocket.
2 When getting down, focus eyes directly on the outside edge of the Cue Ball.
3 Maintain head alignment and eyes in this position.
4 Move eyes only to focus on the Object Ball contact point. Confirm by sighting between contact point and pocket entry point a couple of times.
5 With right hand cradling the stick perform a warm up stroke or two.
6 Settle in and confirm alignment subconsciously, then deliver a smooth stroke.
Drill this information a half hour a day until it becomes automatic and part of your routine.
Had the same problem for years! Joe's Third Eye showed me just what it showed you.
Give me a call...........
Hi there jcpoolgod,
Thanks again for buying the Perfect Aim video. I would recommend you give me a call. I offer this to all the players that have purchased the video.
You spent the money and after i work with you a little you will understand the knowledge and value that you have recieved. You will have no questions when we are done. You will not only understand how to align correctly but you will be able to correct your aim on any shot that just doesn't look right when you first get down. The answers are there and i will help you discover them personally.
It doesn't take much to point a player in the right direction. If fact after you see what needs to be done you might say like most,You got to be kidding?
In 15 minutes I will have you understanding Perfect Aim Perfectly. Plus there are a few things i will share with you that are not on the video that will be on the new one. Things that I learned since the video was done about a year ago.
Perfect Aim actually starts in the Preshot and continues until you have pocketed the OB ball.
Give me a call and I want to encourage anyone else that has any questions to do the same.
Looking forward to talking with you. Just be by a pool table when you call.
Anytime 715-563-8712 Thanks again geno.............
Hi there jcpoolgod,
Thanks again for buying the Perfect Aim video. I would recommend you give me a call. I offer this to all the players that have purchased the video.
You spent the money and after i work with you a little you will understand the knowledge and value that you have recieved. You will have no questions when we are done. You will not only understand how to align correctly but you will be able to correct your aim on any shot that just doesn't look right when you first get down. The answers are there and i will help you discover them personally.
It doesn't take much to point a player in the right direction. If fact after you see what needs to be done you might say like most,You got to be kidding?
In 15 minutes I will have you understanding Perfect Aim Perfectly. Plus there are a few things i will share with you that are not on the video that will be on the new one. Things that I learned since the video was done about a year ago.
Perfect Aim actually starts in the Preshot and continues until you have pocketed the OB ball.
Give me a call and I want to encourage anyone else that has any questions to do the same.
Looking forward to talking with you. Just be by a pool table when you call.
Anytime 715-563-8712 Thanks again geno.............
See the discussion in the article concerning Diagram 4d. A potential problem with a non-square (turned head) alignment is: the parallax effect will vary with focus distance.
For a while, I tried turning my head to compensate for my head and eyes being in the wrong place. Now I get my eyes in the right place (using the "vision center" drill described in the article) and try to keep my head as square as possible. This made a big improvement in my game ... especially with long shots.
Regards,
Dave
Parallax 2
Perhaps my post was unclear.
I followed your drill and as a result I needed a turn of the
head slightly right. But I had difficulty in the amount of
head turn. My initial tries were much too much of a turn. And
without a helper for guidance there was a total lack of
consistency. First try was half a nose to the right which lead
to all sorts of difficulty as well as a lack of consistency.
For me how much right should I turn my head? About 2
degree turn right. And this is a very slight amount of turn.
Just how could I consistently turn my head 2 degrees?
The exercises in my prior post allow me to focus at the
outside edge of the CB. Then holding my head steady
redirect my eye a bit left to see the shot.
This has worked for a few days.
The advantage is the relative consistency in distances from
eyes to Cue Ball. And a half ball offset at the Cue Ball at
the total distance from the Cue Ball is approximately 2
degrees. The process described in the first is how to
determine how much, and the process in the second
describes a consistent method to achieve it.
I have yet to see just how much difference there is for my
long bridge length and my very short bridge length. I
suspect the difference will be minor. Perhaps a tip or half
tip from the base difference of half ball.
Monday I will repeat my process and finalize the sight offset
for long, normal, and short bridge lengths.
Golf Parallax
There seems to be a similar parallax issue in golf.
http://www.toptechgolf.com/index.php?page=products
And their solution to the sighting problem is to duplicate
several putting surface diagrams on the top surface of the
putter.
Perhaps my post was unclear.
I followed your drill and as a result I needed a turn of the
head slightly right. But I had difficulty in the amount of
head turn. My initial tries were much too much of a turn. And
without a helper for guidance there was a total lack of
consistency. First try was half a nose to the right which lead
to all sorts of difficulty as well as a lack of consistency.
For me how much right should I turn my head? About 2
degree turn right. And this is a very slight amount of turn.
Just how could I consistently turn my head 2 degrees?
The exercises in my prior post allow me to focus at the
outside edge of the CB. Then holding my head steady
redirect my eye a bit left to see the shot.
This has worked for a few days.
The advantage is the relative consistency in distances from
eyes to Cue Ball. And a half ball offset at the Cue Ball at
the total distance from the Cue Ball is approximately 2
degrees. The process described in the first is how to
determine how much, and the process in the second
describes a consistent method to achieve it.
I have yet to see just how much difference there is for my
long bridge length and my very short bridge length. I
suspect the difference will be minor. Perhaps a tip or half
tip from the base difference of half ball.
Monday I will repeat my process and finalize the sight offset
for long, normal, and short bridge lengths.
Golf Parallax
There seems to be a similar parallax issue in golf.
http://www.toptechgolf.com/index.php?page=products
And their solution to the sighting problem is to duplicate
several putting surface diagrams on the top surface of the
putter.
I was suggesting in my post (and article) that turning the head is probably not the best approach in general. Shifting the head, while keeping it as square as possible, is a better approach if it is not too uncomfortable.
For me, I've found the best way to ensure my eyes are in the right place is to touch my chin to the cue while checking my alignment and aim in the stance (before my warm-up strokes). Being tall, I never liked such a low stance in the past, because it put strain on my neck and hamstring. But now I bend both knees some, allowing me to get the chin on the cue with comfort. My legs don't seem to get tired, even after a long session, so I'm happy with the "non-classic-knee-bend" stance. Again, having my eyes in the right place, and being able to check it with my chin has been a great help.
Sorry if I'm still missing your main point. I don't mean to harp on the "head turn" thing, but I think it is important.
Regards,
Dave
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The turning of the head helps to put the eye or eyes in the correct position. Because the turning the head the right way moveing the eyes into the position that is needed is the only way that it helps.
If you are left eye dominant and the eyes are not in the right position turning the head to the right will help you getting them there.
Turning the head the other way will not help at all. In fact it will make it worse. Much worse because it will force the non dominant eye to work as the dominant eye making the aiming very difficult. It will look right but you will probably miss.
I thought this too about the eyes being closer together because of the turn but it makes no difference whatsoever.
Know the dominant eye in the preshot. Keep it in the dominant position on the way down and all the way to the set position. If you need to make too much of an adjustment once you get down you better start over from the preshot.
This is what I teach everyday and it all works. And it is exactly the same for everyone regardless what everyone says about it being different for everyone.
Some players are right eye dominant, some are left eye dominant. The strengths of the dominance vary which changes everyones perfect position.
Some players are one eye shooters and have different issues than the others.
It's as simple as 1+1 is 2. And 2+2 is 4 once you really understand how it works.
About 10 months ago I sent out Perfect Aim videos to I think 23 AZers that were skeptical about aiming things or even about Perfect Aim. I sent them all the video and worked with 21 of them on the phone with 100% success. Anyone can read the reviews on my website. Most of these guys didn't think what I taught would work but they quickly became believers.
I'm working on the new Perfect Aim video almost every night to make it as clear as I can how this all works. When I get it done these guys will all recieve the video to do another review. Just to get their expert opinions as pool players.
The answers will all be there. Nobody will have to guess anymore unless they want to. This is the way the eyes naturally work and nobody can change that. No matter what they do....
Have a great day geno..............
If you are left eye dominant and the eyes are not in the right position turning the head to the right will help you getting them there.
Turning the head the other way will not help at all. In fact it will make it worse. Much worse because it will force the non dominant eye to work as the dominant eye making the aiming very difficult. It will look right but you will probably miss.
I thought this too about the eyes being closer together because of the turn but it makes no difference whatsoever.
Know the dominant eye in the preshot. Keep it in the dominant position on the way down and all the way to the set position. If you need to make too much of an adjustment once you get down you better start over from the preshot.
This is what I teach everyday and it all works. And it is exactly the same for everyone regardless what everyone says about it being different for everyone.
Some players are right eye dominant, some are left eye dominant. The strengths of the dominance vary which changes everyones perfect position.
Some players are one eye shooters and have different issues than the others.
It's as simple as 1+1 is 2. And 2+2 is 4 once you really understand how it works.
About 10 months ago I sent out Perfect Aim videos to I think 23 AZers that were skeptical about aiming things or even about Perfect Aim. I sent them all the video and worked with 21 of them on the phone with 100% success. Anyone can read the reviews on my website. Most of these guys didn't think what I taught would work but they quickly became believers.
I'm working on the new Perfect Aim video almost every night to make it as clear as I can how this all works. When I get it done these guys will all recieve the video to do another review. Just to get their expert opinions as pool players.
The answers will all be there. Nobody will have to guess anymore unless they want to. This is the way the eyes naturally work and nobody can change that. No matter what they do....
Have a great day geno..............
This might be a little off topic but is still an aiming question so here goes:
When breaking what do you look at last, the rack or the cueball?.
The reason I ask is the other night when I was playing I was breaking as normal looking at the rack last before pulling the trigger & my breaks were so so but then I tried looking at the cueball last before pulling the trigger when to my surprise the rack split great but the cueball flew off the table.
So I wonder if looking at the cueball last is better for aiming on the break rather than looking at the rack.
Opinions please.
When breaking what do you look at last, the rack or the cueball?.
The reason I ask is the other night when I was playing I was breaking as normal looking at the rack last before pulling the trigger & my breaks were so so but then I tried looking at the cueball last before pulling the trigger when to my surprise the rack split great but the cueball flew off the table.
So I wonder if looking at the cueball last is better for aiming on the break rather than looking at the rack.
Opinions please.
When throwing a spear.........
Hi there 9 ball,
When throwing a spear you are always looking at the target. From the time you start until the time you finish your stroke to hit the target. You would never look at the spear.
In pool we are just throwing the spear underhand. We can look at the spear, which is the cue ball, because we are set pretty solid. But you need to be looking at the target as you stroke because your vision can help you steer the stroke to the target. If you are not looking at the target as you stroke you might as well close your eyes.
Your aim is extra important on the break. If you don't hit the head ball the way you want the results can be undesirable.
Good Luck Geno............
Hi there 9 ball,
When throwing a spear you are always looking at the target. From the time you start until the time you finish your stroke to hit the target. You would never look at the spear.
In pool we are just throwing the spear underhand. We can look at the spear, which is the cue ball, because we are set pretty solid. But you need to be looking at the target as you stroke because your vision can help you steer the stroke to the target. If you are not looking at the target as you stroke you might as well close your eyes.
Your aim is extra important on the break. If you don't hit the head ball the way you want the results can be undesirable.
Good Luck Geno............
Parallax 3
Turning the head the opposite direction does make the
situation worse and increases the error. So there is
something more than getting the eyes slightly closer
together on your line of sight.
I know players who have only a single good eye. Of course I
have seen some who squint close their non dominant eye.
I think I have found a way to do a precise and repeatable
head turn. Mentioned above in my post.
The thing I like about the final eye position. That is I am
seeing the shot as if my eyes were in perfect position. This
also is simplifying things in that all of the other aiming
adjustments I picked up over the years are now
unnecessary. A simpler system in inherently better.
It is really quite simple for a minor head and sighting turn.
Perhaps there are alternate ways to obtain this ideal perspective.
Turning the head the opposite direction does make the
situation worse and increases the error. So there is
something more than getting the eyes slightly closer
together on your line of sight.
I know players who have only a single good eye. Of course I
have seen some who squint close their non dominant eye.
I think I have found a way to do a precise and repeatable
head turn. Mentioned above in my post.
The thing I like about the final eye position. That is I am
seeing the shot as if my eyes were in perfect position. This
also is simplifying things in that all of the other aiming
adjustments I picked up over the years are now
unnecessary. A simpler system in inherently better.
It is really quite simple for a minor head and sighting turn.
Perhaps there are alternate ways to obtain this ideal perspective.
Depends on eye dominance......
If you are left eye dominant turning to the right could be beneficial especially if you are shooting any cut to the right. If you are right eye dominant it would be just the opposite.
Your slight turn is the final tuning in your aiming process. When you get to this spot like you said it looks perfect..
The way you turn works for you because of your eye dominance. Keep doing it and keep seeing those shots correctly.
This is what I teach. Everyone has that perfect spot. Trying to get there on every shot is a challenge. the game is full of optical illusions with our sighting.
There are numerous little tricks that help us overcome some of the more difficult illusions.
Once you find your perfect spot like you have the game can be alot more fun.
After I showed Perfect Aim to Rodney Morris at Bullshooters in Phoenix 7/6/09 I asked him what he thought of the name Perfect Aim. His answer was that's Perfect. It works.
Good Luck Geno.......
If you are left eye dominant turning to the right could be beneficial especially if you are shooting any cut to the right. If you are right eye dominant it would be just the opposite.
Your slight turn is the final tuning in your aiming process. When you get to this spot like you said it looks perfect..
The way you turn works for you because of your eye dominance. Keep doing it and keep seeing those shots correctly.
This is what I teach. Everyone has that perfect spot. Trying to get there on every shot is a challenge. the game is full of optical illusions with our sighting.
There are numerous little tricks that help us overcome some of the more difficult illusions.
Once you find your perfect spot like you have the game can be alot more fun.
After I showed Perfect Aim to Rodney Morris at Bullshooters in Phoenix 7/6/09 I asked him what he thought of the name Perfect Aim. His answer was that's Perfect. It works.
Good Luck Geno.......
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Can you explain why all the greats tilted their heads a little sideways? Willie Mosconi for example.
Dr D
Good stuff as usual.
A variation that you omitted from your BD article was that of keeping the cue beneath the middle of the chin but tilting the head sideways. I am not suggesting that this technique necessarily has much to offer, but it is quite common and so worth a mention.
I am r handed, l eye dominant and used to tilt my head. However (rightly or wrongly) I stopped myself doing it when I found that the tilt would increase during the session, perhaps due to fatigue.
I conscously switched to a non-centered, square-on orientation and used this for some time. But when I recently stumbled across the turned head method, I got a signficant step up.
Different strokes for different folks?
Good stuff as usual.
A variation that you omitted from your BD article was that of keeping the cue beneath the middle of the chin but tilting the head sideways. I am not suggesting that this technique necessarily has much to offer, but it is quite common and so worth a mention.
I am r handed, l eye dominant and used to tilt my head. However (rightly or wrongly) I stopped myself doing it when I found that the tilt would increase during the session, perhaps due to fatigue.
I conscously switched to a non-centered, square-on orientation and used this for some time. But when I recently stumbled across the turned head method, I got a signficant step up.
Different strokes for different folks?