TOI in ACTION Earl Stickland vs CJ Wiley

[Jobba786]

You may be right, it would have been a huge upset to win at York Hall. I weighed up the reality of the situation in the first few days and could see we were "up against the nuts".

From my experience there's always a way to win, however, when we're that big of an underdog we had to take some chances to win. We took those chances and they paid off to put us in position to win. I have no regrets, it could have been worse, and I don't think we could have won by any other score but 11/10.

I was amazed and completely surprised by the performance of your team this year. The score could (and should) have been different when entering the last day. When you took the 3 first matches on the last day (thursday), I started to believe in the mayas dooms day lol

Anyway I think you (the whole team) performed with such a professionality that I had problems to believe what I was seeing. Archer as team player and motivator is something we do not have, but we do also luckily have a great coach/ captain (dankzij Johan Ruijsink) . We have to work really really hard here i Europe to keep our position, but I hope and think it will be done.

-Jon Birger

 

[DTL]

.......................

 

[Jobba786]

THIS (blue highlights) is what I don't follow and WANT to understand how you do it. Please show me at the DCC if possible. Thx.

DTL

I don't know, but as I read it, it should be pivoting, and everybody should be aware of the pivot point of their shafts...

I might be wrong, but those adjusements after getting down on the shot if that is what is ment, I think it will be done with backhand english----- I might be completely misunderstanding..... sorry

-Jon Birger

 

[motic]

It's 95% done and we are finishing the post production process. It will be up and ready for PPV Downloading in a few days. We are hurrying, but don't want to rush it and "cheapen" the outcome.

This is really important to me and my staff to get right the first time. The information is stellar,it's just a matter of polishing, proofing, and presenting the final product. 'The Game is the Teacher'

Sounds great CJ, can't wait. Will it be included with the purchase of Inside Secrets or a separate purchase?

If it is separate I will just go ahead and buy Billiards Inside Secrets now then purchase the TOI when its available. If not I will obviously wait if it is included.

 

[Lock N Load]

Thanks Mr. Lock.

You're right & I won't be for long. I'll remember him the way he would want. I'll remember him for the good times & for the fact that he would never give up. He would not quit. He was a good guy.

Thanks Again,

Hello Mr. English,
You are very welcome. I realize what it means and does to a person to lose a loved one, may it be a friend or relative. That does not matter because a friend can mean as much to a person as a relative can be. It depends on how much of a friend it is or was! I think you are strong and taking this well. You are a very likeable guy, and a nice person. Take care, as I care. Once again, I am sorry for your lost.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

And therein lies your problem and the boards problem. You don't care. You just don't want to be bothered. Why even have the job if you aren't going to even care about it? I do exactly what you asked, and you threaten to ban me for it. Nice, real nice.

Just the opposite my friend.

I am insisting on people's civility on the board.
When the best response that you can muster is an argument, you have made my point for me.

Guys, there are others here ( PJ ) that would do well to heed this warning also.

 

[TASK]

I've read about it in several threads now, but I am having trouble grasping this TOI concept. Is it the same thing as what I have heard referred to as "gearing english"? Whereas you apply just enough inside english to cancel out the outside english the cue ball naturally picks up from the object ball, resulting in no sidespin being on the cue ball when it leaves the object ball? If not, can anyone give a general summarization of the concept?

 

[Ralph Kramden]

CJ - I was wondering about LD shaft deflection in comparison to a regular playing shaft using a TOI.
How will the CB react applying just a TOI compared to deflecting (squirting) using a full tip of inside?

Thanks. Carl

 

[West Point 1987]

I've read about it in several threads now, but I am having trouble grasping this TOI concept. Is it the same thing as what I have heard referred to as "gearing english"? Whereas you apply just enough inside english to cancel out the outside english the cue ball naturally picks up from the object ball, resulting in no sidespin being on the cue ball when it leaves the object ball? If not, can anyone give a general summarization of the concept?

I don't think what you're describing is call "gearing English"...but you're accurately describing the result of TOI. It's basically a dead cueball after contact, with the natural angle--adjusted with draw or follow only as you want. It takes three hours straight to prove the concept with your own stroke and eyes, then about three weeks to make it your own. You'll be re-calibrated, so you come down on the shot with the touch of inside as the default without really thinking about it, aiming slightly thicker (but after three weeks it will look like a normal dead center line to the center of the pocket). It will just look right to you. You'll have a natural tendency to put too much inside at first--it will still work, but the cue ball will still have inside spin, which you do not want. You want just enough to deflect the thick aim thinner, with the cueball dead after contact, "floating" away to your desired position. For me and my shaft, I can barely see the touch of inside (it's like 1/8 of a tip). I know people watching me can't see what I'm doing. It also helps to think of it as a "muscular" way of shooting. You're really making the cue ball do what you want it to do. You have to accelerate your straight stroke through the cueball, but that doesn't necessarily mean hitting it hard...soft shots work great, too. You'll also notice that pretty tough cuts up the rail become much more reliable, with a flat back and forth cue ball action (not scratching, because you KNOW what the cue ball will do). For me, that added a lot of shots I would normally not rely on, because I didn't have confidence in hitting them and controlling the cue ball.

 

[TASK]

I don't think what you're describing is call "gearing English"...but you're accurately describing the result of TOI. It's basically a dead cueball after contact, with the natural angle--adjusted with draw or follow only as you want. It takes three hours straight to prove the concept with your own stroke and eyes, then about three weeks to make it your own. You'll be re-calibrated, so you come down on the shot with the touch of inside as the default without really thinking about it, aiming slightly thicker (but after three weeks it will look like a normal dead center line to the center of the pocket). It will just look right to you. You'll have a natural tendency to put too much inside at first--it will still work, but the cue ball will still have inside spin, which you do not want. You want just enough to deflect the thick aim thinner, with the cueball dead after contact, "floating" away to your desired position. For me and my shaft, I can barely see the touch of inside (it's like 1/8 of a tip). I know people watching me can't see what I'm doing. It also helps to think of it as a "muscular" way of shooting. You're really making the cue ball do what you want it to do. You have to accelerate your straight stroke through the cueball, but that doesn't necessarily mean hitting it hard...soft shots work great, too. You'll also notice that pretty tough cuts up the rail become much more reliable, with a flat back and forth cue ball action (not scratching, because you KNOW what the cue ball will do). For me, that added a lot of shots I would normally not rely on, because I didn't have confidence in hitting them and controlling the cue ball.

Thanks for the clarification. I already have a bit of feel for this so it will be interesting to see what kind of results I get if I play around with it some more. I have personally discovered this technique to be greatly helpful on certain "down the rail" cut shots, as it applies a bit of spin to the object ball that seems to help it hug the rail and spin into the pocket. I find it especially helpful on really tight tables that want to reject just about everything cut down the rail.

 

[Poolsmith]

Inside Secrets and TOI

CJ,
I just purchased your "Inside Secrets" DVD tonight. Will the TOI be available on DVD as well? I ask because you said it will be available for PPV in the near future. Are you bringing these to the Derby? If so when will you be there? Thanks for passing down your pool knowledge. Keep it coming.

 

[Houstoer]

spent 3 hours tonight on my table trying this. Love it ! pretty good and I only know the bits and pieces that have been posted here and have a few questions but will wait on the dvd to see if that answers my questions. Thanks much CJ. I did realize that a side benefit from this is that when you align the balls straight then get down and apply TOI it keeps your dominant eye more over the ball than most other systems.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Calibrating angles and using "Kentucky Windage" is always going to be essential

CJ - I was wondering about LD shaft deflection in comparison to a regular playing shaft using a TOI.
How will the CB react applying just a TOI compared to deflecting (squirting) using a full tip of inside?

Thanks. Carl

Cuing the TOI without spinning it creates different "shot angles" and it's partially because of the deflection, and something I haven't "touched on," is it changes your eye/cue ball relationship slightly too. I know this is happening, however, I'm not up for trying to explain it in detail (in writing).

I just got word that the "rough cut" of the TOI Video is done and I need to go do some more work to get the Final Copy approved. These things that you're asking will be made much more clear when you see the demonstration.

Concerning the LD shafts? I don't have any on hand to test, however, I did use an OB SHAFT a couple of weeks ago and played fine with it. I did need to go over a "hair further" to get the same effects, and easily made the transition (after a couple of racks).

Calibrating angles and using "Kentucky Windage" is always going to be essential if you want to reach your next level in pool. It's especially necessary if you're playing on unfamiliar cloth, humidity, or other "unusual" playing situations. Pool table do play differently because of these outside influences. It's not just the deflection that it effects, it's a plethora of factors.Calibrating angles and using "Kentucky Windage" is always going to be essential if you want to reach your next level in pool.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Hello Mr. English,
You are very welcome. I realize what it means and does to a person to lose a loved one, may it be a friend or relative. That does not matter because a friend can mean as much to a person as a relative can be. It depends on how much of a friend it is or was! I think you are strong and taking this well. You are a very likeable guy, and a nice person. Take care, as I care. Once again, I am sorry for your lost.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

Thanks Mr. Lock.

I think you too are a nice guy as well as a kind & considerate individual.

Best Regards & Wishes to You &

 

[CJ Wiley]

the balance and sighting advantages were well worth the 3 weeks it took me

spent 3 hours tonight on my table trying this. Love it ! pretty good and I only know the bits and pieces that have been posted here and have a few questions but will wait on the dvd to see if that answers my questions. Thanks much CJ. I did realize that a side benefit from this is that when you align the balls straight then get down and apply TOI it keeps your dominant eye more over the ball than most other systems.

Yes, and if you make a point to look at the tip before you get down on the shot it helps with your dominant eye alignment too.

I like facing the shot like you face anything you're looking at. When you twist and turn to get down on the shot it puts unnecessary stress on your back and could lead to aches and pains (and permanent damage later in life).

It's easy to get over the shot incorrectly due to not understanding how the pre shot routine is applied. Most players will have to be shown how to get down on the shot facing it because it's difficult to get the hip out of the way of your right hand.

This technique is shown on my 'Ultimate Pool Secrets' { www.cjwiley.com } and I had to learn and change my style to accommodate it. I knew when it was explained to me - the balance and sighting advantages were well worth the 3 weeks it took me to make the changes.

The game should be fun and stress free (on your body), the only stress is from the competitive element and that's a positive stress. We, as human beings will always draw stress into our lives, the key is learning to attract the positive stress, not the negative. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[Lock N Load]

Thanks Mr. Lock.

I think you too are a nice guy as well as a kind & considerate individual.

Best Regards & Wishes to You &

Mr. English,
What do you think of the Worlds Pool Hall, Buffalo Billiards? What did you hear while you were visiting us? Buff talked nice about you. I was wondering what else he said! Thanks in advance.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Johan Ruijsink is one of those people, and as Captain of Team Europe

I was amazed and completely surprised by the performance of your team this year. The score could (and should) have been different when entering the last day. When you took the 3 first matches on the last day (thursday), I started to believe in the mayas dooms day lol

Anyway I think you (the whole team) performed with such a professionality that I had problems to believe what I was seeing. Archer as team player and motivator is something we do not have, but we do also luckily have a great coach/ captain (dankzij Johan Ruijsink) . We have to work really really hard here i Europe to keep our position, but I hope and think it will be done.

-Jon Birger

Johnny Archer and I were in the same apartment (these rooms were huge, we saw rooms upstairs you could play basketball in LoL) and got a chance to talk a great deal. I could tell he was in a great frame of mind and we talked into the "wee hours" of the night on a few occasions. His experience in competition is second to none and this would be fascinating to document.

There's a good chance Johnny and I will be putting on some pool seminars this year. I get the feeling "The Game" is drawing together certain people from all over the world in preparation for something special to happen. Pool has all the qualities needed to create world wide interest, it's just a matter of identifying these qualities and putting them in a format that will sell.

Johan Ruijsink is one of these key people, and as Captain of Team Europe has proven his ability in creating teamwork and unifying his players synergistically. We American players aren't as team oriented, however, I learned a few "Inside Secrets" to why this is and how we can turn it around. To win in London the U.S.A. Team will need a complete arsenal.

I'm not sure if team formatted competition is the way of the future, however, it does bring in some entertaining contrasts that don't show up in your normal "head to head" competition. Bonus Ball will be the first indications of how real this becomes. I'm very interested to see how, why and when Bonus Ball progresses this year and where it may lead the Game. 'The Game is the Teacher' CJ Wiley

 

[One Pocket John]

Yes, and if you make a point to look at the tip before you get down on the shot it helps with your dominant eye alignment too.

I like facing the shot like you face anything you're looking at. When you twist and turn to get down on the shot it puts unnecessary stress on your back and could lead to aches and pains (and permanent damage later in life).

It's easy to get over the shot incorrectly due to not understanding how the pre shot routine is applied. Most players will have to be shown how to get down on the shot facing it because it's difficult to get the hip out of the way of your right hand.

This technique is shown on my 'Ultimate Pool Secrets' { www.cjwiley.com } and I had to learn and change my style to accommodate it. I knew when it was explained to me - the balance and sighting advantages were well worth the 3 weeks it took me to make the changes.

The game should be fun and stress free (on your body), the only stress is from the competitive element and that's a positive stress. We, as human beings will always draw stress into our lives, the key is learning to attract the positive stress, not the negative. 'The Game is the Teacher'

Hey CJ,

Noticed above you were talking about the dominant eye. I'm right handed and right eye dominent.

I performed an experiment a while back, I have my own table so it was easy to do.

I got a piece of 3x5 paper and punched a 1/4" hole in the center. I placed pool balls at different distances away from the head rail all the way down to the foot rail.

Standing at the head rail, I held the card up away from my eyes at a distance that allowed me to see the closest OB. I then brought the paper back to my face keeping the OB in sight thru the hole. When the paper was right on my face the hole in the paper was dead center on my right eye.

Now here is where it gets interesting. As I repeated this excercise for the balls further away from me, I noticed that when bringing the paper back to my face the hole was moving closer to the bridge of my nose and no longer centered on my right eye.

So, this experiment would suggest to me that the further a ball is away from you the less your dominent eye is involved and that both eyes are seeing the same point at the same time.

Have a good day and thanks for all that you share.

John

 

[CJ Wiley]

did this new information do anything to help your alignment or pre shot routine?

Hey CJ,

Noticed above you were talking about the dominant eye. I'm right handed and right eye dominent.

I performed an experiment a while back, I have my own table so it was easy to do.

I got a piece of 3x5 paper and punched a 1/4" hole in the center. I placed pool balls at different distances away from the head rail all the way down to the foot rail.

Standing at the head rail, I held the card up away from my eyes at a distance that allowed me to see the closest OB. I then brought the paper back to my face keeping the OB in sight thru the hole. When the paper was right on my face the hole in the paper was dead center on my right eye.

Now here is where it gets interesting. As I repeated this excercise for the balls further away from me, I noticed that when bringing the paper back to my face the hole was moving closer to the bridge of my nose and no longer centered on my right eye.

So, this experiment would suggest to me that the further a ball is away from you the less your dominent eye is involved and that both eyes are seeing the same point at the same time.

Have a good day and thanks for all that you share.

John

I've never given the dominant (master eye) eye much thought in my pool career and it's not been a topic of disussion with any of my pro friends.

I want my eyes to work together so I use solid, reference points in my aiming/alignment (center and edge on the object ball), and since the cue ball is usually a controlled distance away I used it to create my specific angles.

I was told by another friend years ago that the pool shot is somewhat of an illusion and not to think about it too much. I did experiment with how I looked at the cue ball in relationship to my tip to understand the TOI Method better, and once I was done this practice was immediately discontinued.

When I work with players it's not something I want to stress, it's always been more beneficial to make sure they're looking directly down the "line of the shot," as if they were looking at a piece of chalk on the other side of the table.

I'm more interested in their head being square to that line and not cocked in some peculiar way. This works for me and works for my students so I just go on to other things.

I appreciate your input on the matter, did this new information do anything to help your alignment or pre shot routine?

 

[dougster26]

CJ,
I want to thank you for all of the information you are sharing with us. I have both of your DVD's and look forward to your up and coming one on TOI.

In post #122 the poster high lighted in blue what he didn't understand about your aiming system. Basically, once you have aligned the portion of the CB to the OB center, if less than 30 degrees, to make the necessary cut, you then get down and aim the center of the CB the center of the OB. I have tried this and I am missing something because I don't understand it either. I like what you said about not liking the CP to CP because you have to do an extra step. I am making your system work for me but I have to use a pivot in order for it to work.

I was just wondering if you could go over this again to try and clarify it. I can't seem to figure it out on my own.