Ah, so what you actually mean when you say it is not english is that you are THINKING of it as not being english. Now, this makes sense :wink:
TOI is English/Spin
- Thread starter BeiberLvr
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Ah, so what you actually mean when you say it is not english is that you are THINKING of it as not being english. Now, this makes sense :wink:
If it's not doing what you think it will do, I'd advice practicing
I said I don't think of spinning the cue ball. Is all spinning "english"? If so, then you can think of it any way you choose - I don't believe there's any "knuckle balls" in pool, at least that I've ever noticed.
I'm happy to tell everyone that the cue ball will do what you think it will do. If it's not doing what you think it will do, I'd advice practicing until is does. 'the GAME is the teacher'
I said I don't think of spinning the cue ball. Is all spinning "english"? If so, then you can think of it any way you choose - I don't believe there's any "knuckle balls" in pool, at least that I've ever noticed.
I'm happy to tell everyone that the cue ball will do what you think it will do. If it's not doing what you think it will do, I'd advice practicing until is does. 'the GAME is the teacher'
JEEPERS CJ! Now there's an easy to understand, cogent explanation of your thinking on the subject. You've made many, many, posts explaining yourself in this thread and in the thread aout a year ago concerning this very same subject, but; well, this is the first one that's been easy to understand and cogent. I'm gonna sleep well tonight.
It´s even more funny when you add a Dad + Mom = Child, A result of what you wanted.
Food for thought
Regards
Christian
sooner or later everyone will understand that is willing to change.
I'm glad to hear that - sooner or later everyone will understand that is willing to change old ideas for some new revelations. I just went through a similar learning curve in martial arts concerning the bagua training. Usually what blocks us off from new wisdom is something that we are holding, that is no longer useful in our lives.
This is why I have to be patient and explain things in many different ways. Pool is a difficult game to communicate without demonstration on an actual table, especially when discussing the more advanced techniques.
I'm glad to hear that - sooner or later everyone will understand that is willing to change old ideas for some new revelations. I just went through a similar learning curve in martial arts concerning the bagua training. Usually what blocks us off from new wisdom is something that we are holding, that is no longer useful in our lives.
This is why I have to be patient and explain things in many different ways. Pool is a difficult game to communicate without demonstration on an actual table, especially when discussing the more advanced techniques.
Very well stated Mike. As I've said a few times before, there's very little that CJ Wiley teaches about shot - making that does not IMMEDIATELY resonate with me. Some would have you believe ( right here in this thread, in fact) that I must be blindly following his instructions because, after all, he was a highly successfull pro and shouldn't the pro's know best?
WRONG! I think I'll manage to cope without being " enlightened" as more than one of you has generously offered to make me. I'm well aware that Ted Williams was a bad manager and Tony Larussa only had a cup of coffee in the major leagues. I follow CJ Wiley' instructions because of a very simple reason: When I joined AZ 2 years ago I tried out implementing some of he tps he doled out his posts.
The balls immediately started going in with more frequency. I then said to myself, "This being the case, it might behoove me to continue to implement the tips he doles out in his posts. Maybe the balls will continue to go in with more frequency." I then continued to implement the tips he doled out in his posts and ...lo and behold....the balls continued to go in with more frequency!
I then said to myself, "You know Elroy, you've never had a lesson. These top earning teachers charge $75 an hour for lessons. CJ will give you 5 hours of lessons on DVD for $80. $80 is a lotta money but you practice for several hours every day, you'vspa pent $450 just the last 2 years on 2 cues, and pool is a HUGE part of your life; so, buy the DVD's. The balls will tell you if it was worth it."
I bough the DVD's and watched them. As for the balls.....OH BOY......(That means they started to go in with even more frequency)
Suffice it to say, I continue to read and learn from everything CJ posts on AZ and I'm sure I'll buy his next DVD on the day it's released
I do; however have one criticism of CJ, MIke. You say, " I think getting hung up on definitions is a waste of time." I agree. CJ; however, is hung up on a definition. He seems adamant about the need to eliminate any thought of the spin being used in T.O.I as being " English."
His reasoning is sound, as is stated in his explanation a few posts above. I just wish he'd state his case as simply and cogently as he did above and not get so esoteric when defending his theory as he has a history of doing.
Beginning pool players and potential converts to T.O.I are reading these threads. They need simple and cogent answers, not esoteric ones. I stated in a post on the 1st or 2nd page in this thread that this exact topic has been exhaustively discussed in previous T.O.I. threads before, and eventually everyone starts talking around in circles. As I wrote, CJ has now given, in my opinion, a simple and cogent explanation of his theory that EVERYONE should be able to understand. Now everyone else can stop getting hung up on definitions.
.....And we can all live happily ever after
Oh shit! Now I'm embarrassed as hell! I wrote post # 126 before I read post # 125!!!I'm glad to hear that - sooner or later everyone will understand that is willing to change old ideas for some new revelations. I just went through a similar learning curve in martial arts concerning the bagua training. Usually what blocks us off from new wisdom is something that we are holding, that is no longer useful in our lives.
This is why I have to be patient and explain things in many different ways. Pool is a difficult game to communicate without demonstration on an actual table, especially when discussing the more advanced techniques.
Assuming you mean the CB deflects to the right, this is rarely the case if one aligns accurately to CCB and swipes or pivots the cue a little to the left of center on the stroke. It only occurs when the player is bridging longer than the effective pivot point for the shot.
Most players, especially with LD cues, playing at medium speed are bridging shorter than their effective pivot point, hence, when they swipe a little left of center, the CB is deflected left, not right.
Anyone can set up a few shots, bridging short, align center, hit slow to medium with a little left swoop and see the CB deflect left, not right as you suggested.
Perhaps you should clarify if you're suggesting bridge movement or taking line of cue upon impact as your guide as the description provided lacks precision.
Colin
Gee...I can't hit center ball yet if I move to one side of center ball I know where I'm hitting.
If you can't hit center ball accurately you, ain't gonna hit off center accuraetly.
If you can hit off center accrautely, but not hit center ball accuraetly you got a weakness which appears most are too lazy to correct it.
If you can't hit center ball accurately you, ain't gonna hit off center accuraetly.
If you can hit off center accrautely, but not hit center ball accuraetly you got a weakness which appears most are too lazy to correct it.
Without demonstrations it's tough to allow the player to see how
You're right, picking apart definitions is not helpful to you or anyone else.
I'm used to teaching in person, so writing down pool explanations is challenging. Without demonstrations it's tough to allow the player to see how effective these techniques are.
It's okay, keep practicing and if you have any questions I'm always available, just keep the emails under 4000 words.
lol
You're right, picking apart definitions is not helpful to you or anyone else.
I'm used to teaching in person, so writing down pool explanations is challenging. Without demonstrations it's tough to allow the player to see how effective these techniques are.
It's okay, keep practicing and if you have any questions I'm always available, just keep the emails under 4000 words.
lol
Omg Duck you just don't get it. If I aim a touch from center, and accidentally hit center then the ball still goes in the hole even though i never changed my initial alignment. it's so simple i can't believe you don't get it.
with luv,
CJ
the 'Touch of Inside' is like shooting ducks out of a barrel.
Very simple, very easy....the 'Touch of Inside' is like shooting ducks out of a barrel.
Very simple, very easy....the 'Touch of Inside' is like shooting ducks out of a barrel.
TOI players have taken this issue out of the equation.
It happens a lot more often that you may realize. I see my opponents make this mistake time after time, after time. TOI players have taken this issue out of the equation.
It happens a lot more often that you may realize. I see my opponents make this mistake time after time, after time. TOI players have taken this issue out of the equation.
Thinking about applying english for shot-making is not a good mental practice. imho
Don't worry about it, everything's cool my friend, I understand your thoughts and concerns.
To me there's a difference between spin and english. Every shot we hit has some spin on it, however, we apply english to change the path of the cue ball, usually after hitting a cushion. Thinking about applying english for shot-making is not a good mental practice. imho
Using english to pocket balls is unnecessary, although we do "throw" the object ball in with spin.....this could be called english, however, I prefer to divide the terms, like using masse', spin and english separately.
Don't worry about it, everything's cool my friend, I understand your thoughts and concerns.
To me there's a difference between spin and english. Every shot we hit has some spin on it, however, we apply english to change the path of the cue ball, usually after hitting a cushion. Thinking about applying english for shot-making is not a good mental practice. imho
Using english to pocket balls is unnecessary, although we do "throw" the object ball in with spin.....this could be called english, however, I prefer to divide the terms, like using masse', spin and english separately.
I don't think you understand what I'm talking about CJ, but rather than argue, let me say that I think TOI is like TOT. Touch of Top, as in a stun through follow shot. Such shots can be very valuable but need a mastery of judgement and many hours of practice to account for cloth conditions and distance between CB and OB.
FWIW, I think TOI is often applied in a way that it's not just the CIT that cancels out the IE spin, but in large part the rail checking the CB slightly, killing speed and the IE spin component.
A very handy shot indeed, particularly on US tables.
I think that aligning to the IE side of the CB also provides a means of encouraging a larger cut, which helps a lot of players who align to undercut, but that's another issue.
Cheers,
Colin
TOI is very advanced, I've just scratched the surface of what it really can do
Another thing that TOI does that's positive mentally is it aligns the subconscious with the cut direction. In other words, if you are cutting the ball to the right, you use a "touch of right," if you are cutting the ball to the left, you use a "touch of left".
This actually is congruent with your thought processes at the deepest levels and also creates the ideal angles as well.
TOI is very advanced, I've just scratched the surface of what it really can do when performed properly.
Another thing that TOI does that's positive mentally is it aligns the subconscious with the cut direction. In other words, if you are cutting the ball to the right, you use a "touch of right," if you are cutting the ball to the left, you use a "touch of left".
This actually is congruent with your thought processes at the deepest levels and also creates the ideal angles as well.
TOI is very advanced, I've just scratched the surface of what it really can do when performed properly.
Excuse me Mr. Wiley, but are you saying, that in your thousands of posts on the subject of 'TOI',.. you have barely "scratched the surface"?..What could possibly be left to say, that you haven't already 'tried' to say hundreds of times ?
PS..Also, the first paragraph in your post, is almost impossible to understand !..I'm sure Dr. Dave, isn't the only one confused, and 'dazzled by your footwork' !
You need to get out more.
Maybe we just don't have "thought processes at the deepest levels" needed to understand it.
pj <- shallow end of the gene pool
chgo
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Excuse me Mr. Wiley, but are you saying, that in your thousands of posts on the subject of 'TOI',.. you have barely "scratched the surface"?..What could possibly be left to say, that you haven't already 'tried' to say hundreds of times ?
PS..Also, the first paragraph in your post, is almost impossible to understand !..I'm sure Dr. Dave, isn't the only one confused, and 'dazzled by your footwork' !
We are getting ready to go into the "advanced chapter" - I bet you can hardly wait. :thumbup: