Tony the Cheat

JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
I just got back from the qualifer for the U.S. Amateur Championship in Shreveport, LA and am so wired up on coffee. I drank about 48 ounces of coffee over the 5 plus hour trip back home and wanted to post a story that I heard from a young guy just learning how to play one pocket.

This story seems plausible and I was wonderng what the rest of you thought about it.

This young kid about 22 years old is just learning how to play one pocket and he gets approached by this guy named Tony. Tony see that the kid is a lamb and offers the kid a great spot 9-5 for $20 race to 3. The kid thinks that is a big spot so he takes it. While they are playing the kid touches one object ball and it touches no other ball. Tony immediately says, "That's a foul". The kid didn't think so but didn't want to argue so he allows Tony to shoot and spots a ball. Another session, another day, weeks and maybe months away from the first transgression they are playing for similar high stakes and the kid see Tony touch a ball and calls a foul. Tony says, "No, it's not a foul". The kid can barely stand it and now refuses to play with Tony and now calls him TONY, THE CHEAT.

Is this fair for the kid to call Tony, Tony the Cheat?

No non-standard rules were discussed before hand and the kid assumed they were playing by published standard one pocket rules.

By the way, this situation happened in Baton Rouge, LA at a Click's Billiards.

When you gamble at one pocket, if you touch ONE BALL other than the cue ball, do you say that is a foul?

Just wondering what the rest of you thought about that.

The tournament was a grind as they started very late on the second day. Lots of good competition. Charley Blanchard from Thibodaux also qualifed coming from the loser's bracket an beating an old nemesis, Rick Farr...

I got lucky and booked no losers but don't really like the format of not having Double Elimination in the final match. It just doesn't seem fair for one player to lose a match, go to the one loss side and then come through the loser's bracket only have to beat the winner of the winner's bracket one time to knock the winner of the winner's bracket out of the tournament/qualifer.

If you come out of the one loss side in the U.S. OPen 9 Ball Championship, do you have to beat the winner of the winner's bracked once or twice?

I would be interested to know other tournaments that favor this seemingly unfair practice and the reasoning behind it.

I might feel different if I was on the one loss side but I doubt it. The way I feel, is that if I only had to beat the winner one time, I still couldn't consider that a clean victory, knowing that the winner of the winner's bracket only lost one match and that I too had lost one match......

YOur thoughts?


Thanks,

JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
This young kid about 22 years old is just learning how to play one pocket and he gets approached by this guy named Tony. Tony see that the kid is a lamb and offers the kid a great spot 9-5 for $20 race to 3. The kid thinks that is a big spot so he takes it. While they are playing the kid touches one object ball and it touches no other ball. Tony immediately says, "That's a foul". The kid didn't think so but didn't want to argue so he allows Tony to shoot and spots a ball. Another session, another day, weeks and maybe months away from the first transgression they are playing for similar high stakes and the kid see Tony touch a ball and calls a foul. Tony says, "No, it's not a foul". The kid can barely stand it and now refuses to play with Tony and now calls him TONY, THE CHEAT.

Is this fair for the kid to call Tony, Tony the Cheat?
Click to expand...

IMHO, yes. Its rude, but I think he has the right to say that especially since he can back it up with a humorous story.
 
Very good Story----I would definetely think the person was trying to pull one over on me for sure.

And yes EVEN in the US open (which in my oppinion is the worst rule in pool) the loser only has to beat the winner 1 set in the finals. I believe when JS won he came from the losers and beat luat who was undefeated. I am glad he did but i think the rule is bogus and i am sure it has happened more than once.
 
Yeah, it's fair to call Tony a cheat but not worth it. No it's not a foul to touch a ball in one pocket. You move it back to where it was.

In Winning One Pocket Jersey Red is playing an opponent who wanted to insist that touching a ball is a foul. Red asked him if he really wanted to insist on it being a foul. The opponent said yes and with that Red swept all the balls to his pocket and said, "now I owe two."

In the US Open it's a one set finals.
 
JoeyA said:
I just got back from the qualifer for the U.S. Amateur Championship in Shreveport, LA and am so wired up on coffee. I drank about 48 ounces of coffee over the 5 plus hour trip back home and wanted to post a story that I heard from a young guy just learning how to play one pocket.

This story seems plausible and I was wonderng what the rest of you thought about it. ...................

The tournament was a grind ..................... I got lucky and booked no losers but don't really like the format of not having Double Elimination in the final match. It just doesn't seem fair for one player to lose a match, go to the one loss side and then come through the loser's bracket only have to beat the winner of the winner's bracket one time to knock the winner of the winner's bracket out of the tournament/qualifer.

If you come out of the one loss side in the U.S. OPen 9 Ball Championship, do you have to beat the winner of the winner's bracked once or twice?

I would be interested to know other tournaments that favor this seemingly unfair practice and the reasoning behind it.

I might feel different if I was on the one loss side but I doubt it. The way I feel, is that if I only had to beat the winner one time, I still couldn't consider that a clean victory, knowing that the winner of the winner's bracket only lost one match and that I too had lost one match......

YOur thoughts?

Thanks,

JoeyA
Click to expand...


JoeyA,

The US Open 9-ball is a one set final. Most tournaments are run too slowly for the purpose of getting those few extra dollars from players (especially if it last a few days) ,fans and attendees....So when the end of the tournament has arrived AKA the "finals" so is the end of the money making days for the "event" itself. Thus the finals of the event(s) pays the price by ending it as soon as possible. Why do promoters or directors do this? I sure they will not have an answer. I would like to know their thoughts.


Joe Kerr, started promoting one set finals back in Ohio in the Late 80's and into the early 90's. It really is not fair the player who has not lost a match. There are plenty of ways to structure a 2-set finals for a tournament. It is great to see pool tours, like the Viking Tour have a 2-set finals.

Yes Tony is a cheat, he should be punched in the face really HARD!
 
If it was a foul when the kid did then it's a foul in any games they play after that unless it has been changed between the two of them before this session. Johnnyt
 
JoeyA said:
I just got back from the qualifer for the U.S. Amateur Championship in Shreveport, LA and am so wired up on coffee. I drank about 48 ounces of coffee over the 5 plus hour trip back home and wanted to post a story that I heard from a young guy just learning how to play one pocket.

This story seems plausible and I was wonderng what the rest of you thought about it.

This young kid about 22 years old is just learning how to play one pocket and he gets approached by this guy named Tony. Tony see that the kid is a lamb and offers the kid a great spot 9-5 for $20 race to 3. The kid thinks that is a big spot so he takes it. While they are playing the kid touches one object ball and it touches no other ball. Tony immediately says, "That's a foul". The kid didn't think so but didn't want to argue so he allows Tony to shoot and spots a ball. Another session, another day, weeks and maybe months away from the first transgression they are playing for similar high stakes and the kid see Tony touch a ball and calls a foul. Tony says, "No, it's not a foul". The kid can barely stand it and now refuses to play with Tony and now calls him TONY, THE CHEAT.

Is this fair for the kid to call Tony, Tony the Cheat?

No non-standard rules were discussed before hand and the kid assumed they were playing by published standard one pocket rules.

By the way, this situation happened in Baton Rouge, LA at a Click's Billiards.

When you gamble at one pocket, if you touch ONE BALL other than the cue ball, do you say that is a foul?

Just wondering what the rest of you thought about that.

The tournament was a grind as they started very late on the second day. Lots of good competition. Charley Blanchard from Thibodaux also qualifed coming from the loser's bracket an beating an old nemesis, Rick Farr...

I got lucky and booked no losers but don't really like the format of not having Double Elimination in the final match. It just doesn't seem fair for one player to lose a match, go to the one loss side and then come through the loser's bracket only have to beat the winner of the winner's bracket one time to knock the winner of the winner's bracket out of the tournament/qualifer.

If you come out of the one loss side in the U.S. OPen 9 Ball Championship, do you have to beat the winner of the winner's bracked once or twice?

I would be interested to know other tournaments that favor this seemingly unfair practice and the reasoning behind it.

I might feel different if I was on the one loss side but I doubt it. The way I feel, is that if I only had to beat the winner one time, I still couldn't consider that a clean victory, knowing that the winner of the winner's bracket only lost one match and that I too had lost one match......

YOur thoughts?


Thanks,

JoeyA
Click to expand...
I don't know if this relates to the situation other than the fact that i just got done reading it at the derby city rules but:

It is not a foul to accidentally touch one stationary object ball. However, it is an automatic foul to touch 2 or more balls
Click to expand...

if this is the case in other sets of rules also, then tony is not a cheat.

M.C.
 
curlyscues said:
....if this is the case in other sets of rules also, then tony is not a cheat.
Click to expand...

In my book, provided they were playing the same rules (by specific agreement or by implication) on both occasions, it doesn't really matter what the rules actually say. One way or another Tony's a cheat:)
 
Whaaa?

curlyscues said:
if this is the case in other sets of rules also, then tony is not a cheat.
Click to expand...

<RANT>
You have just disregarded the fact that Tony DID call a foul on the kid in their FIRST match, that Tony, being an experienced 1-Pocket player, KNEW was NOT A FOUL and then thought he could get away with this in front of a public forum.

Even without prior discussion of rules, THIS IS AN ACT OF TOTAL DISHONESTY!!! Conclusion:

Tony IS A CHEAT and the kid is fully within his right to make this fact known at the top of his lungs!

I hate this type of stuff. Why go through all the effort to "play" a game to "win" money when, instead, you can just wait for the kid to leave, hold a gun to his head and just take the money -- done in a flash with hardly any effort! This is basically what Tony did with his "called foul." Dressing this up in "poolplayer's trappings" (pun INTENDED) makes this kind of act no better than an outright armed robbery.

Tony might think twice about pulling this kind of crap again! JoeyA, If I'm ever in your area, be sure to let me know who Tony is and I will be sure NOT to play him. If he ever heads up my way, please PM me and let me know -- he doesn't deserve an HONEST game anywhere in the PacNW.
</RANT>
 
memikey said:
In my book, provided they were playing the same rules (by specific agreement or by implication) on both occasions, it doesn't really matter what the rules actually say. One way or another Tony's a cheat:)
Click to expand...

I agree. Johnnyt
 
mailman said:
<RANT>
You have just disregarded the fact that Tony DID call a foul on the kid in their FIRST match, that Tony, being an experienced 1-Pocket player, KNEW was NOT A FOUL and then thought he could get away with this in front of a public forum.

Even without prior discussion of rules, THIS IS AN ACT OF TOTAL DISHONESTY!!! Conclusion:

Tony IS A CHEAT and the kid is fully within his right to make this fact known at the top of his lungs!

I hate this type of stuff. Why go through all the effort to "play" a game to "win" money when, instead, you can just wait for the kid to leave, hold a gun to his head and just take the money -- done in a flash with hardly any effort! This is basically what Tony did with his "called foul." Dressing this up in "poolplayer's trappings" (pun INTENDED) makes this kind of act no better than an outright armed robbery.

Tony might think twice about pulling this kind of crap again! JoeyA, If I'm ever in your area, be sure to let me know who Tony is and I will be sure NOT to play him. If he ever heads up my way, please PM me and let me know -- he doesn't deserve an HONEST game anywhere in the PacNW.
</RANT>
Click to expand...
no, i did not disregard anything. you did not read either joey's story right or my quote of the rule.

the kid touched 2 balls and by some rules a foul.

tony (who i would also call a nit) touched 1 ball, which by most rules is not.

M.C.
 
sorry to all

Johnnyt said:
Joey said, "the kid touched one ball", not two. Johnnyt
Click to expand...
you are correct there, johnny. i seem to have missed the little word "no" in the narration.

time to have my eyes checked again.

i'll shut up now.

M.C.
 
curlyscues said:
you are correct there, johnny. i seem to have missed the little word "no" in the narration.

time to have my eyes checked again.

i'll shut up now.

M.C.
Click to expand...
NP. I seem to miss read more than my share lately. Johnnyt
 
What's good

for the goose is good for the gander!!!

How may times have you married guys heard that??? ..... :D

Tony was wrong, and worse yet ... He is a Finagler!!! That puts him in the class of 'Lounge Lizards' ..... :rolleyes:
 
Finagler!.....love that word, not heard it in years:)

In Uk they say 'sauce' for the goose not 'good' for the goose....must be a yank thing:)
 
memikey said:
Finagler!.....love that word, not heard it in years:)

In Uk they say 'sauce' for the goose not 'good' for the goose....must be a yank thing:)
Click to expand...

What ever you want to call him he wouldn't last long in the NY rooms that I played in. Johnnyt
 
Someone's Reading Comprehension In Question ...

M.C. says about mailman:

curlyscues said:
no, i did not disregard anything. you did not read either joey's story right or my quote of the rule.

the kid touched 2 balls and by some rules a foul.
Click to expand...

I DID properly read your quote of the rule and have NO DISAGREEMENT with that quote. However, THIS is where the disagreement is -- JoeyA, in his original post, as copied and pasted here by mailman, says:

JoeyA said:
... While they are playing the kid touches one object ball and it touches no other ball. Tony immediately says, "That's a foul".
Click to expand...

Now, who was it, again, that MISREAD Joey's original post?

My earlier post stands AS WRITTEN -- CASE CLOSED!!!

However, I WILL admit, ya made me look!!! LOL! I am famous for making these types of errors in reading -- so many thanks to M.C. (curlyscues) for keeping me on my toes :D :D :D
 
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Yes, this is cheating, and yes, every time an action player behaves this way, there is a danger we scare yet another young player away from pool.
 
I don't know if it has ever been mentioned before, but I do not like the finger-lickers.

I have witnessed many unnamed great pool players go to rack the balls, and after they remove the rack, they take their licked finger and touch the head ball in the rack.

Now, upon initial glance, this may only appear to be somebody trying to get a tight rack, but this is finger-licking, a practice which should not be allowed to happen. I see it time and time again. After the rack is removed, no fingers, licked or not licked, should touch the balls, IMHO.

Do you think that finger-licking the balls is a legal maneuver, or is it a way to rig the rack?

JAM
 
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