I agree RWOJO and Making the 8 out of turn has always been a loss except BCA I think someone said.
Tournament Rules that are Completely ****ed!!!
- Thread starter RunoutJJ
- Start date
Ok wow i can see there is a lot of confusing here so let me wrap it up in a nutshell......
Also this has nothing to do with bashing leauges if you failed to see that in the original post... This is a tournament that had 3 different types of rule settings!!! See below to see what im talking about:
Open after the break is pretty much a standard rule (BCA or World Play) unless you are playing in MOST bars or the APA where you are what you sank on the break...
CALL POCKET is just calling the ball and the pocket you intend on making it in (BCA or World Rules).
CALL SHOT (only have seen this rule in BARS and BAR TOURNAMENTS)means you have to call off of this and off of that.. double kiss, combos and impossible shots that are just funny and entertaining to watch :lol:
Ah the good ol 8 ball topic.... Now in most bars or the APA if you hit the 8 ball and scratch than you lose the game and thats fine.. The question i brought up was what if my opponent hooks me behind his or her ball and i kick and scratch the cue ball without hitting the 8 ball?? Do i lose because i am indeed scratching on the 8 ball??? Just like if i nicked the 8 ball.. missed and dunked the cue ball in the side pocket. Its a cue ball foul just like any other ball. It just seems silly to lose this way. If you're in a bar setting and you're shooting the 8 ball and you pocket the cueball in any way shape or form you lose period... Unless you and your opponent are playing under different rules that you both agreed on before playing. To the ball slamming public you lose..
SO.... in the APA you can crap balls in and scratch and not lose so why should the only ball you have to call (8 ball) be any different if thats your last ball?? It just seems funny to me that you can play like crap the whole time and have your opponent get a bad kiss and scratch on the 8 ball and you win??? Tisk tisk...
Ah the good ol CLEAN shot on the 8....
I have only seen this rule in BARS or BAR TOURNAMENTS and again thats fine. Making the 8 ball CLEAN in CALL pocket games is just extremely obtuse and just a bad idea... So much room for agruements from the better players (not the bangers that SHOOT pool in their bars) and i would have to agree. If your playing on a poorly leveled (or not at all) table the 8 ball can drift at the end of a roll and glance of a ball tumble in and you lose?? Thats is fine if you are playing in a BAR tournament with straight bar rules... In this case it just seems, again, weird.
All in all this thread MAIN topic is why have 3 different sets of formatted rules in effect???
Yes everybody is right about "If those are the rules those are the rules.." Im not complaing about the rules in a singluar fashion... Its on the whole that is the problem..
You want to make the tourney BAR rules?? Fine so be it..
You want to make the tourney APA rules?? Fine so be it..
You want to make the tourney BCA rules?? Fine so be it...
This tourney was a combination of these 3 different types of formats!!! My main point was why not pick one type of format and stick with it?? That is all
Also this has nothing to do with bashing leauges if you failed to see that in the original post... This is a tournament that had 3 different types of rule settings!!! See below to see what im talking about:
Open after the break is pretty much a standard rule (BCA or World Play) unless you are playing in MOST bars or the APA where you are what you sank on the break...
CALL POCKET is just calling the ball and the pocket you intend on making it in (BCA or World Rules).
CALL SHOT (only have seen this rule in BARS and BAR TOURNAMENTS)means you have to call off of this and off of that.. double kiss, combos and impossible shots that are just funny and entertaining to watch :lol:
Ah the good ol 8 ball topic.... Now in most bars or the APA if you hit the 8 ball and scratch than you lose the game and thats fine.. The question i brought up was what if my opponent hooks me behind his or her ball and i kick and scratch the cue ball without hitting the 8 ball?? Do i lose because i am indeed scratching on the 8 ball??? Just like if i nicked the 8 ball.. missed and dunked the cue ball in the side pocket. Its a cue ball foul just like any other ball. It just seems silly to lose this way. If you're in a bar setting and you're shooting the 8 ball and you pocket the cueball in any way shape or form you lose period... Unless you and your opponent are playing under different rules that you both agreed on before playing. To the ball slamming public you lose..
SO.... in the APA you can crap balls in and scratch and not lose so why should the only ball you have to call (8 ball) be any different if thats your last ball?? It just seems funny to me that you can play like crap the whole time and have your opponent get a bad kiss and scratch on the 8 ball and you win??? Tisk tisk...
Ah the good ol CLEAN shot on the 8....
I have only seen this rule in BARS or BAR TOURNAMENTS and again thats fine. Making the 8 ball CLEAN in CALL pocket games is just extremely obtuse and just a bad idea... So much room for agruements from the better players (not the bangers that SHOOT pool in their bars) and i would have to agree. If your playing on a poorly leveled (or not at all) table the 8 ball can drift at the end of a roll and glance of a ball tumble in and you lose?? Thats is fine if you are playing in a BAR tournament with straight bar rules... In this case it just seems, again, weird.
All in all this thread MAIN topic is why have 3 different sets of formatted rules in effect???
Yes everybody is right about "If those are the rules those are the rules.." Im not complaing about the rules in a singluar fashion... Its on the whole that is the problem..
You want to make the tourney BAR rules?? Fine so be it..
You want to make the tourney APA rules?? Fine so be it..
You want to make the tourney BCA rules?? Fine so be it...
This tourney was a combination of these 3 different types of formats!!! My main point was why not pick one type of format and stick with it?? That is all
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could someone please explain to me where the outer city is?Your either in the city or your not.
Ah the good ol 8 ball topic.... Now in most bars or the APA if you hit the 8 ball and scratch than you lose the game and thats fine.. The question i brought up was what if my opponent hooks me behind his or her ball and i kick and scratch the cue ball without hitting the 8 ball?? Do i lose because i am indeed scratching on the 8 ball??? Just like if i nicked the 8 ball.. missed and dunked the cue ball in the side pocket. Its a cue ball foul just like any other ball. It just seems silly to lose this way. If you're in a bar setting and you're shooting the 8 ball and you pocket the cueball in any way shape or form you lose period... Unless you and your opponent are playing under different rules that you both agreed on before playing. To the ball slamming public you lose..
The answer here is that you play safe. If you can't make a decent hit on the ball, you play safe. If you scratch, you lose. I don't recall this being APA-centric.
SO.... in the APA you can crap balls in and scratch and not lose so why should the only ball you have to call (8 ball) be any different if thats your last ball?? It just seems funny to me that you can play like crap the whole time and have your opponent get a bad kiss and scratch on the 8 ball and you win??? Tisk tisk...
Dont like it, don't play it. Those are the rules, they are clear to all at the beginning, it is the way it is. Don't scratch on the 8.
Ah the good ol CLEAN shot on the 8....
I have only seen this rule in BARS or BAR TOURNAMENTS and again thats fine. Making the 8 ball CLEAN in CALL pocket games is just extremely obtuse and just a bad idea... So much room for agruements from the better players (not the bangers that SHOOT pool in their bars) and i would have to agree. If your playing on a poorly leveled (or not at all) table the 8 ball can drift at the end of a roll and glance of a ball tumble in and you lose?? Thats is fine if you are playing in a BAR tournament with straight bar rules... In this case it just seems, again, weird.
All in all this thread MAIN topic is why have 3 different sets of formatted rules in effect???
Yes everybody is right about "If those are the rules those are the rules.." Im not complaing about the rules in a singluar fashion... Its on the whole that is the problem..
You want to make the tourney BAR rules?? Fine so be it..
You want to make the tourney APA rules?? Fine so be it..
You want to make the tourney BCA rules?? Fine so be it...
This tourney was a combination of these 3 different types of formats!!! My main point was why not pick one type of format and stick with it?? That is all
It seems like this tournament is indeed run by "bar rules." In that there is no one set of "bar rules" anywhere, just the particular set of rules that are used in that particular bar. So what if some of them come from BCA, some from APA, and some completely from outer space. That's what makes them "bar rules." It's one set of formatted rules, for that room.
Bar rules are call shot... Table is not open after the break and the 8 ball has to be clean not a combination of the rules we played by!! You seemed to have missed my major point here.... If you're a certified instructor you would think that you would run a tournament with one set standard of rules... That was my point. Im not sayin gwhat you said is wrong but.....
Nevermind :lol:
TAXI!!!!!!!!
Nevermind :lol:
TAXI!!!!!!!!
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If he's a BCA instructor, then he should know....
he should know that it's not a loss of game unless BOTH the CB AND the 8B fall.... If just the CB falls when you're on the eight it ain't a loss of game.
Jaden
Ok here's the situation....
I recently played in a 8 Ball tournament and the rules where... Lets just say... Horrible!!!!!
It was a combination of BCA, APA and Bar rules!!!
The table is open after the break
Call pocket not called shot
The eight ball has to be CLEAN!!!
The one that takes the cupi doll is if you shoot the 8 ball and miss but scratch the cue ball you LOSE!!!!
One question i had for this TD was what if i was hidden behind a ball an im on the 8 and its my shot. I kick off a rail miss everything (especially the 8 ball) and scratch the cue ball... Is it a loss of game?? The ansmer was NO it is a cue ball foul not a loss of game.
Im i the only one that thinks these rules are completely retarded in a $40 entry tournament????
Oh forgot to mention when i qeustioned the TD he responed with "Im a BCA certified instructor!!" Now he's a really nice guy but i thought his tournament format was down right horrible. No offence to the man but if your a BCA certified instructor dont you think the format should be a BCA one??
he should know that it's not a loss of game unless BOTH the CB AND the 8B fall.... If just the CB falls when you're on the eight it ain't a loss of game.
Jaden
Okay ball in pocket is tournament rules
After the break the table is always open until you call the second shot and make the second shot otherwise it stays open
Clean 8-ball? Not sure sounds a little screwy i mean if its ball in pocket it shouldn't matter provided you call that pocket doesn't matter if you bank the ball and hit 5 balls as long as you hit the 8ball first and goes in that pocket.
Also scratching on the 8-Ball is not a loss its ball in hand to the other player.
These are official tournament rules played by the pros. If you don't believe me theres a tournament rule book you can pick up and it'll justify any uncertainties.
Apa rules are garbage but make sense on bar tables not regular full sized tables
Hope that clarifies a little bit for you.
Once again follow the pros rules because they are made for serious and objective players forget all this i make these rules and this is the tournament. They are just better in general and they hold true not to be one sided, not to mention they are also universal. You can go to a place in arizona for example and a place in jersey and say lets play tournament rules and they are set in stone.
After the break the table is always open until you call the second shot and make the second shot otherwise it stays open
Clean 8-ball? Not sure sounds a little screwy i mean if its ball in pocket it shouldn't matter provided you call that pocket doesn't matter if you bank the ball and hit 5 balls as long as you hit the 8ball first and goes in that pocket.
Also scratching on the 8-Ball is not a loss its ball in hand to the other player.
These are official tournament rules played by the pros. If you don't believe me theres a tournament rule book you can pick up and it'll justify any uncertainties.
Apa rules are garbage but make sense on bar tables not regular full sized tables
Hope that clarifies a little bit for you.
Once again follow the pros rules because they are made for serious and objective players forget all this i make these rules and this is the tournament. They are just better in general and they hold true not to be one sided, not to mention they are also universal. You can go to a place in arizona
for example and a place in jersey and say lets play tournament rules and they are set in stone.
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This tourney was a combination of these 3 different types of formats!!! My main point was why not pick one type of format and stick with it?? That is all
Compared to strict WPA/BCA rules, the extra eight ball stuff in your OP slightly favors the weaker player at the table. Compared to APA rules, the open break makes them favor the better player.
By that measure, I would say they are not completely ****ed.
What is ****ed is accepting the rules, paying an entry, and then turn around and bash them after the fact.
Substitute "****ed" with "annoying" in your OP and my post and we agree completely.
I don't understand why you think this one takes the cupi (sic) doll?
They played that way for decades.
Fred
Okay ball in pocket is tournament rules
After the break the table is always open until you call the second shot and make the second shot otherwise it stays open
Clean 8-ball? Not sure sounds a little screwy i mean if its ball in pocket it shouldn't matter provided you call that pocket doesn't matter if you bank the ball and hit 5 balls as long as you hit the 8ball first and goes in that pocket.
Also scratching on the 8-Ball is not a loss its ball in hand to the other player.
These are official tournament rules played by the pros. If you don't believe me theres a tournament rule book you can pick up and it'll justify any uncertainties.
Apa rules are garbage but make sense on bar tables not regular full sized tables
Hope that clarifies a little bit for you.
Once again follow the pros rules because they are made for serious and objective players forget all this i make these rules and this is the tournament. They are just better in general and they hold true not to be one sided, not to mention they are also universal. You can go to a place in arizona
Like this post.
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Thank you fred for wording it perfectly.
Sure in bars and to the old school players sure thats how its always been and still is but... You mostly see this rule in bars and the APA league and not in tournaments.
I'm not a fan of the 8-having-to-go-clean rule, either. But the club I play at has it for one of their house rules, so we play that way in any of their tourneys. When we aren't playing a tourney, we just forego that rule.
For the record, our house rules also include call pocket, open table after the break, 8 on the break is a win, and scratch on the 8 is a loss of game. As is both the 8 and the cueball on the break. (There is no BCA for hundreds of miles, and lots of APA. Yet these are the rules we play by when not playing APA, or house tourneys. Other rooms have slightly different variations, too.)
We switch back and forth rather easily, as the situation dictates. That's why it ain't no big deal to me.
I've found that places that have this rule, use it as sort of a "last dying gasp" when they start conceding the silly "call everything" rules. ("Call everything" meaning that everything the object ball touches on its way to the pocket has to be called -- rails, combinations, caroms, tickies, etc. -- just like you'd find in bar/pub/tavern pool.) Some places will relax the "call everything" rule to just the normal call-ball/call-pocket, but they'll make a stipulation with the 8-ball that it has to go clean. For some reason, those places (including those places that implement the "call everything" rules in the first place) "think" that this is somehow "cleaner" or "more skilled" pool. But those that know anything about pool -- beyond your average bar banger -- know this is not the case.
The solution is simple -- either accept the rules as they are before you pony-up your entry fee, or don't play. If you accept the rules, you have no choice but to keep these "exceptions" in mind when picking out your patterns, and don't play for position on the 8-ball that demands clean entry through an obstructed path -- make sure to play for an unmistakable clean path to the pocket. I know, easier said than done in some cases, but the rules are what they are, and you have a choice at the outset before you even pony-up your entry fee.
-Sean
quote..
Bar rules are call shot... Table is not open after the break and the 8 ball has to be clean not a combination of the rules we played by!! You seemed to have missed my major point here.... If you're a certified instructor you would think that you would run a tournament with one set standard of rules... That was my point. Im not sayin gwhat you said is wrong but.....
Then why is the 8 ball always the most dull dirty ball on the table in these type of bars?
Shady inner-city bars are nice when its hot out.
Sometimes people use goofy rules in tournaments.You can take them aside and try to get them to see the logic of using BCA rules but usually they have a reason for modifying the rules based on their own personal experiences or from hearing from the players (complaints).
Bar rules are call shot... Table is not open after the break and the 8 ball has to be clean not a combination of the rules we played by!! You seemed to have missed my major point here.... If you're a certified instructor you would think that you would run a tournament with one set standard of rules... That was my point. Im not sayin gwhat you said is wrong but.....
Then why is the 8 ball always the most dull dirty ball on the table in these type of bars?
Shady inner-city bars are nice when its hot out.
Sometimes people use goofy rules in tournaments.You can take them aside and try to get them to see the logic of using BCA rules but usually they have a reason for modifying the rules based on their own personal experiences or from hearing from the players (complaints).
wow...I can't believe all the complaints on scratching on the 8 ball is a loss of game. I've played in TONS of local stuff that is that way. Our league (not BCA, VNEA, TAP, or APA, etc. related) still has that rule....so don't scratch then....no biggee. And as far as the open after the break - that's the norm for tourneys, but in league, it's take what you make - the open after the break was invented to speed up the game (of 8ball). If I make 4 stripes on the break, and have to kick 2 or 3 rails just to hit a stripe...so be it. Call it penalized for making balls on the break....I call it 8 ball - open after the break makes it like 9 ball (a straight up run out game).
As for complaining about rules for a tourney - the loudest voice that can be heard it the one who will no longer pay the entry fee!
As for complaining about rules for a tourney - the loudest voice that can be heard it the one who will no longer pay the entry fee!
Another rule change for this year. BIH anywhere on the table after a scratch on the break.
And for those of you that think that it has always been open after the break, that's not so. The rule changes seem to be made to speed the game up.
When eight ball was "you got what you made" it presented a challenge to your skills of eight ball. Make a solid and you have no run out then you have to employ eight ball skills to give yourself a chance to win that game. The game has evolved to highly favor the big break. A fair player with a good break can win many matches with the game the way it is now.
In years past you needed to really understand the beauty of eight ball to win games. It was rare to see a string of 5 or 6 games on the barbox with the rules the way they used to be. Now it's fairly common. Skills learned after fifty years of playing this game are now useless.
Either I am misunderstanding the OP or other people are; but what I think he is saying is this:
1) If you hit the 8 ball and scratch it is not a loss
2) If you miss the 8 ball (bad hit or no hit) and scratch it is a loss of game
I didn't go back and re-read everything but he mentioned kicking, missing the 8 and scratching was a loss.
If that is the case, he has legitimate argument because the rules are inconsistent.
If I am mistaken, then carry on...lol.