Tournament Situation

[DrOnePocket]

why do we call obvious 8 ball, in 8 ball game in every match even if it is a duck?? it is part of the mental game, ability to remember , of which Rob did not have, where as Ronnie is wide awake.
In fact, he did not call the combo of his last shot of the match, Ronnie could have called that, but Rob missed his next shot and forfeited
Plus you are not in Ronnie's shoes, he traveled thousands of miles, backed up, every penny count. Plus Rob started it with calling ref because Ronnie cleaned the CB for him??

You are way off here. Ronnie started it, he had no right to touch the cue ball in the first place, that was a move on his part. He really showed how big of a nit he is last night. If you can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you

As for your comparison to calling the 8 ball, it has no bearing here. These are professional pool players, not bangers in an APA league. That rule is in place in leagues to save arguments between players.

Ronnie proved he is a world class nit. Ask the players that saw it what they think, you will find out I am right

 

[Bigtruck]

Ronnie had no right to touch the cue ball, it was Rob's break. I don't see how you can blame Rob

Who's blaming anyone. It's what happened.

I believe Ronnie should have gave a warning, period. I also believe Ronnie thought he was "helping out" by cleaning the cue ball. He shouldn't be touching the cue ball though. Robb didn't like it one bit and I don't blame him.

Ray

 

[DrOnePocket]

Who's blaming anyone. It's what happened.

I believe Ronnie should have gave a warning, period. I also believe Ronnie thought he was "helping out" by cleaning the cue ball. He shouldn't be touching the cue ball though. Robb didn't like it one bit and I don't blame him.

Ray

In your previous post you make it sound like the whole situation was Rob's fault. that is not the case. Ronnie pulled a move first, you can't blame Rob's reaction to the move for the later problem.

Ronnie was one of my absolute favorite players before last night. No more

 

[RunoutJJ]

Didn't Oscar Domingez do the same thing to Rich Guieler (cant spell) in a 10 ball tournament?? Or was it Rafael Martinez???

 

[pulzcul]

He played shapes for the combo. There was no safety available, no way to pocket the 5 ball. The only available shot was the 5, 8 combo. He made it cleanly, got shapes on the 5.

Ronnie was way out of line. They are pros, not league bangers and Ronnie knew exactly what Rob was doing when he pocketed the 4.

What it boiled down to is Rob was winning 5 to 4 and was breaking better than Ronnie, so he pulled a low class move. I lost all respect for Ronnnie. I don't care how good he plays, he was wrong to do what he did. That wasn't the first shark move he pulled in the match either.

Doc, I sincerely hope the league banger remark was one of those "foot in mouth" things that we all trip on accasionally when its open? There is no difference between pro's and bangers. Some have integrity some don't.
I apologize for jumping in. Don

 

[DrOnePocket]

Doc, I sincerely hope the league banger remark was one of those "foot in mouth" things that we all trip on accasionally when its open? There is no difference between pro's and bangers. Some have integrity some don't.
I apologize for jumping in. Don

There is absolutely a difference. I'm sorry you are uninformed.

 

[pulzcul]

There is absolutely a difference. I'm sorry you are uninformed.

I'm uninformed? Integrity is learned not acquired with position. You insinuate that league players have diiferent standards than pro's? I'm sorry to.

 

[hang-the-9]

You're playing in a big mucky-muck pool tournament.

The rule is that you must call all combinations, kicks, caroms and any shot that is not obvious.

Your opponent shoots a VERY OBVIOUS combination but DOESN'T call the shot.

Do you tell your opponent that he didn't call the shot and find the tournament director who will side with you because that is the rule? Or do you just let your opponent slide on the rule?

If I know that he was trying for that pocket, it's all good with me. Even banks. If he banked and it went in right to the opposite pocket, it's good with no calling it. If it banked 2 rails, I may question it.

I hate people to feel the need to point to every single shot or complain that you don't. I had a guy in a tournament tell me that I need to call a shot after I make a ball clean in the hole, simply because I had 2 other balls around that one I made. He is not on my good side in the tournament anymore.

 

[DrOnePocket]

I'm uninformed? Integrity is learned not acquired with position. You insinuate that league players have diiferent standards than pro's? I'm sorry to.

I see what the problem is now, you took my first post wrong. Somehow you are insulted because you are a league player I guess. Like I said before, there is certainly a difference between how pro's should expect other pro's to act. Call it integrity or whatever you want. Ronnie was WAY out of line. I have played leagues in 3 different states, it's not similar. Once again I am sorry that you are having trouble understanding. Not my fault

 

[RRfireblade]

The rule is that you must call all combinations, kicks, caroms and any shot that is NOT OBVIOUS

Your opponent shoots a VERY OBVIOUS combination.

Is this a reading comprehension test ?

 

[Okie]

Doc, I sincerely hope the league banger remark was one of those "foot in mouth" things that we all trip on accasionally when its open? There is no difference between pro's and bangers. Some have integrity some don't.
I apologize for jumping in. Don

There is absolutely a difference. I'm sorry you are uninformed.

Here's how I see it...

Some league players could care less about rules they deem invalid. When they are called for an infraction they label the person making the call as a nit and go off on some random rant. Personally, I think they lack integrity but I usually am the guy being labeled a nit. To avoid this I generally warn the offender between games without calling foul. I find the argument about the ruling usually negatively affects MY teammates lowering our chance for winning. So best to let it go during league...IMO

A professional event is black and white. Rules must be followed and enforced. This is how folks are trying to make their living after all! In the situation described by Joey, both players broke rules and got called on it. The only person to blame for them breaking rules is themselves. Was the guy cleaning the cue ball trying to shark his opponent? Who cares! The ref was called and a warning was issued. The rules were followed. Did the shooter fail to legally pocket a ball due to not calling a combo? Of course...but again the rules were followed by his opponent calling him on it.

Would I call it on my opponent? In a PROFESSIONAL event I shouldn't have to...the shooter should notice his mistake and call it on himself. But if he doesn't call it on himself I will ask him if he called the pocket and ball. When he says no it was obvious I will take over the table since that is the rule, and the player is the referee when one isn't called to the table. As referee he acknowledged his failure to call the pocket and hence acknowledges a rule was broken.

Rules for PROFESSIONAL sporting events are meant to be black and white. Get over the name calling and move on....aka act professionally

Ken

p.s. Joey, do you still think I made a bad call against you in Tunica?
p.s.s. Grats on the win down there btw!

 

[naji]

You are way off here. Ronnie started it, he had no right to touch the cue ball in the first place, that was a move on his part. He really showed how big of a nit he is last night. If you can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you

As for your comparison to calling the 8 ball, it has no bearing here. These are professional pool players, not bangers in an APA league. That rule is in place in leagues to save arguments between players.

Ronnie proved he is a world class nit. Ask the players that saw it what they think, you will find out I am right

Like wise That rule is in place for this tourney too to save arguments between players, and it did beautifully. This actually shows how smart Ronnie is, to take advantage of every little thing in his power, it is called experience. Another big thing about this rule, is if you do not call it, the coming player have option to return the shot back in case CB is snookered.
The rules did not say do not call obvious bank, combo shots anywhere.
Lastly, this is serious game, not for the love of it, lots of $$$ and ego involved.

 

[Txstang1]

If I know that he was trying for that pocket, it's all good with me. Even banks. If he banked and it went in right to the opposite pocket, it's good with no calling it. If it banked 2 rails, I may question it.

I hate people to feel the need to point to every single shot or complain that you don't. I had a guy in a tournament tell me that I need to call a shot after I make a ball clean in the hole, simply because I had 2 other balls around that one I made. He is not on my good side in the tournament anymore.

I agree. It was definitely a ***** move from what I've read here.

 

[blah blah]

Didn't Oscar Domingez do the same thing to Rich Guieler (cant spell) in a 10 ball tournament?? Or was it Rafael Martinez???

I remember that- about a year or two ago in WA or OR, and the combo was in the side. I vaguely think it happened TO Rich Geiler, who lost, and then the winner went on to play Rafael the very next match. Can't remember who it was, but it wasn't Oscar. Someone younger like him though.

 

[Banks]

Last week I played in the finals for my bracket in our BCA regional. After getting me on two fouls, my opponent confirmed it as I left the table after the second foul. He did not remind me when I approached for my next shot. I fouled a third time and lost the rack. A couple of friends mentioned the technicallity and I told them that I was aware of it, but refused to be that guy, the one that nitpicks the rules as a way to a win.

There was a small weekly tournament near me for a while. They used oddball rules, like calling caroms/combos/banks.. even if it was the only shot on the table. The other thing was that you had to hit your targetted ball first or else it's a foul, didn't even matter if it's your own suit. So glad I haven't run into anything similar since.

 

[Maniac]

I had a guy in a tournament tell me that I need to call a shot after I make a ball clean in the hole, simply because I had 2 other balls around that one I made. He is not on my good side in the tournament anymore.

Just to play Devil's Advocate here, what if you had miscued, hit one of the "other" balls cleanly in the pocket? Would you have taken that shot and continued shooting? I think you would have called a foul on yourself, but...........there are many, MANY people in this world, both amateur and professional that would NOT have called a foul on themselves. This is why the shot (ball & pocket) should be called MOST of the time. I would have called ball and pocket if I had been shooting in your above quoted scenario so my opponent has zero doubt as to my intentions. The only balls that need not be called imo are balls literally hanging in the pocket or short, simple, straight-in shots where there are NO other balls around.

Like I said earlier, how much breath/energy are we really going to waste in calling the majority of shots in a single game/match of pool? Not very much. We could certainly put and end to BS like happened in the Alcano/Saez match by doing it the right way (the way the rules are written for call-shot games).

Maniac

 

[TheNewSharkster]

I haven't read all the replies but this seems clear to me. The rules state that you must call *all* combinations. Player A didn't call the combo and by doing so wasn't playing within the defined set of rules.

Let me put this in perspective. In a game of football would you ever see a coach decline a pass interference call when it would benefit the team to accept it? Same thing here. You gotta play by the rules. It isn't unsportsmant like conduct because player A made a mistake. It would have been a nice gesture to let it slide but don't hold it against the person who wanted to play by the rules.

 

[naji]

Last week I played in the finals for my bracket in our BCA regional. After getting me on two fouls, my opponent confirmed it as I left the table after the second foul. He did not remind me when I approached for my next shot. I fouled a third time and lost the rack. A couple of friends mentioned the technicallity and I told them that I was aware of it, but refused to be that guy, the one that nitpicks the rules as a way to a win.

There was a small weekly tournament near me for a while. They used oddball rules, like calling caroms/combos/banks.. even if it was the only shot on the table. The other thing was that you had to hit your targetted ball first or else it's a foul, didn't even matter if it's your own suit. So glad I haven't run into anything similar since.

It takes guts, experience, and know how to apply rudeness & meanness within the legal limits, and get what you want. Where as Rob was lucky he did not get thrown out the door for the way he acted after the Ref ruled, that is poor experience on his part, also, he could have lied, again lack of big boys style of play.
One time i got a $500.00 ticket because of my son used the handicap sticker i ordered for him when his leg got injured, went to court and Judge said the handycap sticker was issued to my name and he cannot use it, therefore he is in violation of code xyz, come to find out the DMV made a mistake (even though medical record and my application in my son's name), went back to the Judge, and told me, i should have looked, and in violation of rules abc luckily it has lower fine
Like all of us, rules are rules, we love them when they are on our side, hate them when they are against us.

 

[Double-Dave]

To me it is not about the exact wording of the rules but instead about the intention of the rule.

The intention of this rule to me is "you have to call shots that are not obvious".
So if my oppenent is playing a very obvious combo I could care less if he called it.

One thing that puzzles me is quite a few people in this thread, including head referee's
are talking about calling a foul. How is this a foul?

gr. Dave

 

[blah blah]

To me it is not about the exact wording of the rules but instead about the intention of the rule.

The intention of this rule to me is "you have to call shots that are not obvious".
So if my oppenent is playing a very obvious combo I could care less if he called it.

One thing that puzzles me is quite a few people in this thread, including head referee's are talking about calling a foul. How is this a foul?

gr. Dave

Because in the OP:

The rule is that you must call all combinations, kicks, caroms and any shot that is not obvious.

Each one of those four types of shots must be called, rather than another interpretation where each of the first three merely describe what isn't obvious.