Tournament Situation

JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
You're playing in a big mucky-muck pool tournament.

The rule is that you must call all combinations, kicks, caroms and any shot that is not obvious.

Your opponent shoots a VERY OBVIOUS combination but DOESN'T call the shot.

Do you tell your opponent that he didn't call the shot and find the tournament director who will side with you because that is the rule? Or do you just let your opponent slide on the rule?
 
I give my opponents a warning on the first offense and call them on it on any further offenses.
 
Saez vs Alcano

He played shapes for the combo. There was no safety available, no way to pocket the 5 ball. The only available shot was the 5, 8 combo. He made it cleanly, got shapes on the 5.

Ronnie was way out of line. They are pros, not league bangers and Ronnie knew exactly what Rob was doing when he pocketed the 4.

What it boiled down to is Rob was winning 5 to 4 and was breaking better than Ronnie, so he pulled a low class move. I lost all respect for Ronnnie. I don't care how good he plays, he was wrong to do what he did. That wasn't the first shark move he pulled in the match either.
 
I don't say anything if it is obvious. Drives me nuts whe playing an opponent and they try to shark me for not calling a straight in shot or an obvious combo. Just my two cents.
 
JoeyA said:
You're playing in a big mucky-muck pool tournament.

The rule is that you must call all combinations, kicks, caroms and any shot that is not obvious.

Your opponent shoots a VERY OBVIOUS combination but DOESN'T call the shot.

Do you tell your opponent that he didn't call the shot and find the tournament director who will side with you because that is the rule? Or do you just let your opponent slide on the rule?
Click to expand...

The problem with rules written in this manner is that two people may disagree about what is "obvious". Calling ball and pocket on every shot solves this problem. Some people don't want to play that.

In answer to your question, I would remind my opponent that he didn't call the shot if it was required but again in the situation you've outlined above, what was obvious to my opponent may not be obvious to me. It's a poorly written/stated rule in my opinion :)
 
dr9ball said:
In answer to your question, I would remind my opponent that he didn't call the shot if it was required but again in the situation you've outlined above, what was obvious to my opponent may not be obvious to me. It's a poorly written/stated rule in my opinion :)
Click to expand...

Right, why not just make the rule read call ALL balls and pockets, obvious or not?

How much trouble is it to utter two or three words before each shot? Or point at a pocket with your cue and say which numbered ball? This would eliminate all this obvious/not obvious bullsh*t.

Maniac
 
Clarification

dr9ball said:
The problem with rules written in this manner is that two people may disagree about what is "obvious". Calling ball and pocket on every shot solves this problem. Some people don't want to play that.

In answer to your question, I would remind my opponent that he didn't call the shot if it was required but again in the situation you've outlined above, what was obvious to my opponent may not be obvious to me. It's a poorly written/stated rule in my opinion :)
Click to expand...

The rules state that you must call ALL combos, banks and caroms regardless of how obvious they are.

The ruling in the tournament was correct even though most players would never call it.

Robb got under Ronnie's skin early on when he had the tournament director come over and warn Ronnie about cleaning the cue ball right before Robb was about to break.

Ronnie retaliated by throwing the book at Robb.

I will be posting the video on my Youtube channel

Ray
 
I was the tournament director a couple of years ago with these rules and had to make a ruling a couple times with this situation. I had no choice but to call a foul in both cases. Not a good rule but the rules are the rules.
Correction.... head referee, not director.I would not use this rule.
 
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Bigtruck said:
The rules state that you must call ALL combos, banks and caroms regardless of how obvious they are.

The ruling in the tournament was correct even though most players would never call it.

Robb got under Ronnie's skin early on when he had the tournament director come over and warn Ronnie about cleaning the cue ball right before Robb was about to break.

Ronnie retaliated by throwing the book at Robb.

I will be posting the video on my Youtube channel

Ray
Click to expand...



Ronnie had no right to touch the cue ball, it was Rob's break. I don't see how you can blame Rob
 
Bigtruck said:
The rules state that you must call ALL combos, banks and caroms regardless of how obvious they are.

The ruling in the tournament was correct even though most players would never call it.

Robb got under Ronnie's skin early on when he had the tournament director come over and warn Ronnie about cleaning the cue ball right before Robb was about to break.

Ronnie retaliated by throwing the book at Robb.

I will be posting the video on my Youtube channel

Ray
Click to expand...


Thanks for the clarification on the rule Ray. I was responding to the rule as presented in Joey A's post quoted below and it appears I misread his post to say you must call any other shot that is not obvious. Thus leading to my reasoning that kicks, caroms and combinations could be "obvious".

Rufus

"Tournament Situation - Today, 12:10 AM
You're playing in a big mucky-muck pool tournament.

The rule is that you must call all combinations, kicks, caroms and any shot that is not obvious.

Your opponent shoots a VERY OBVIOUS combination but DOESN'T call the shot.

Do you tell your opponent that he didn't call the shot and find the tournament director who will side with you because that is the rule? Or do you just let your opponent slide on the rule?

Have words, will travel!
JoeyA "
 
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dr9ball said:
Thanks for the clarification on the rule Ray. I was responding to the rule as presented in Joey A's post quoted below and it appears I misread his post to say you must call any other shot that is not obvious. Thus leading to my reasoning that kicks, caroms and combinations could be "obvious".

Rufus

"Tournament Situation - Today, 12:10 AM
You're playing in a big mucky-muck pool tournament.

The rule is that you must call all combinations, kicks, caroms and any shot that is not obvious.

Your opponent shoots a VERY OBVIOUS combination but DOESN'T call the shot.

Do you tell your opponent that he didn't call the shot and find the tournament director who will side with you because that is the rule? Or do you just let your opponent slide on the rule?

Have words, will travel!
JoeyA "
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Addition to my previous post regarding this exact scenario. In my previous post I was called to made a ruling.

After the situations were described to me and I decided in my mind that the shots were obvious I still had to verify with the shooter that he didn't call the combination. In both cases I asked the shooter if he had called the combination. When they said no I then had no choice but to call a foul. Had either one said that they did call the combination then I would not have called the foul.
It's very difficult for the referee to call a foul if he didn't see it.
 
DrOnePocket said:
He played shapes for the combo. There was no safety available, no way to pocket the 5 ball. The only available shot was the 5, 8 combo. He made it cleanly, got shapes on the 5.

Ronnie was way out of line. They are pros, not league bangers and Ronnie knew exactly what Rob was doing when he pocketed the 4.

What it boiled down to is Rob was winning 5 to 4 and was breaking better than Ronnie, so he pulled a low class move. I lost all respect for Ronnnie. I don't care how good he plays, he was wrong to do what he did. That wasn't the first shark move he pulled in the match either.
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why do we call obvious 8 ball, in 8 ball game in every match even if it is a duck?? it is part of the mental game, ability to remember , of which Rob did not have, where as Ronnie is wide awake.
In fact, he did not call the combo of his last shot of the match, Ronnie could have called that, but Rob missed his next shot and forfeited
Plus you are not in Ronnie's shoes, he traveled thousands of miles, backed up, every penny count. Plus Rob started it with calling ref because Ronnie cleaned the CB for him??
 
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I try to have a little class when I'm playing a match. If it were obvious, I would not use the rules to gain an advantage when I know that he was rightfully playing the shot.
 
First, Ron A. should have been warned not to approach the table, let alone play with the cue ball, when not his turn. Even then he should not be allowed to clean the cue ball. A little silicon goes a long way.The ref takes care of those issues. In Japan this would not have been tolerated. He would have been DQ'd. period!!! The fact is he knows this, played a head game, and was allowed to get away with it.
Secondly, Why can't pro pool get sponsors to help elevated the prize fund and overall health of the sport. This is a prime example!!!
I sponsor several local tours as well as several pro's. And I will pull up if anyone associated with me allowed or did this.
As for what R.A. did well this is minor to some of the things I am aware of. I was asked to sponsor him many years ago, when I sponsored Luat. And would not. Want to uplift the sport leave the back room thieves, and con crap out. Make this an ethical sport where talent is showcased. If someone runs 5 packs on back to opponents and is clearly playing better than anyone else he should be applauded, and not have to put up with interference from his opponent. Learn to be a top pro player by winning with the stall. Total
BS. And I believe that if these antics had been tried on Johnny, Charlie, Shane, or anyone else in that clic the outcome would have been different.
Outraged.
Mike L.
 
I saw Franscisco do the to Efren in a TV match (Challenge of Champions I think). He said Efrin didn't call the shot, and the ball was spotted and he had ball in hand. And guess what, he made it...
 
JoeyA said:
You're playing in a big mucky-muck pool tournament.

The rule is that you must call all combinations, kicks, caroms and any shot that is not obvious.

Your opponent shoots a VERY OBVIOUS combination but DOESN'T call the shot.

Do you tell your opponent that he didn't call the shot and find the tournament director who will side with you because that is the rule? Or do you just let your opponent slide on the rule?
Click to expand...

Texas Express solves a lot of problems.
The recent rules variations remind me of why I didn't play bar-pool 8-ball
in the action days.

...and I'll remind the 'call-shot' afficionados that the game that produces
the most millionaires ( snooker) is NOT played 'call your shot'.
...and neither is another great game...3-cushion
 
Tough question

I've grappled with that one before. In a tournament we have to play by the rules. We cannot pick and choose which rules we want to play with. A referee is going to call that a no make everytime as long as it is proven that the shot wasn't called. That can be the tough part.

If it was, without question, not called, it violates the rule.

In a side game, I tell/warn the opponent before he shoots that I will call it the next time.

JoeyA said:
You're playing in a big mucky-muck pool tournament.

The rule is that you must call all combinations, kicks, caroms and any shot that is not obvious.

Your opponent shoots a VERY OBVIOUS combination but DOESN'T call the shot.

Do you tell your opponent that he didn't call the shot and find the tournament director who will side with you because that is the rule? Or do you just let your opponent slide on the rule?
Click to expand...
 
I think it's poor sportsmanship, plain and simple. Of course the ref has no choice but to call the foul. Normally, in my experience, the Filipinos have the greatest respect for their opponents in every way. I'm suprised at Ronnie. In a money match for even more cash in my home room that would cause a big issue, but there is no ref. I always make sure to call anything that could be questioned as a rule violation later in league. Bet he never fails to call a shot like that again...Tom
 
Masayoshi said:
I give my opponents a warning on the first offense and call them on it on any further offenses.
Click to expand...

That's fair enough.

Since the cat is out of the bag (that didn't take too long) and I didn't intentionally hope that would happen but since the match has been outted and the players I'll add my two cents.

The rule is the rule. It is an ungentlemanly like rule and leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth, probably even the winner of the ruling.

I just wonder if I was playing pool for a living if I would do anything different than what Ronnie did. I would hope so but I can't say that for sure because I haven't walked a mile in his shoes.

On the other hand if I were Robb and that happened, I would have given him a few pieces of my mind as soon as the match was over. I would start off by saying I know the rule is the rule is the rule but....................................................................................................................:embarrassed2:

Furthermore, I wonder just how many professional pool players would not take advantage of a tournament rule if it meant the possibility of losing or winning a tournament.

As for me, a long time ago, in a very important pool tournament I was once shown the magnanimity you profess and I will always try to pay it forward. That rule in the event which I apparently missed, you were not allowed to concede a game even if the 9 ball was sitting in the pocket and the person had cue ball in hand. The penalty was loss of that game, plus one more. My opponent quietly whispered the rule to me and we continued play without me being penalized. I lost the match by a narrow margin but the pain of the loss was eased by the class shown to me by a complete stranger in a situation where he could have taken advantage of the rules but chose not to.

Still, I truly wonder if I had to depend upon my winnings to feed my family if I would have done any different than Ronnie.......:embarrassed2:
 
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