"Tribute" cues? Seriously?

Monstermash said:
You are completely missing the point here.

This thread isn't about standard designs. It's about custom designs that have been/are being ripped off.

Obviously, a 4 point design with veneers and a Hoppe ring is something that's done by almost every cuemaker on earth. As are a lot of standard 6 point designs. When people start bringing up Southwest, I just laugh because they are basically just a production line cues now. There hasn't been a new unique design that has come out of that shop in how many years?
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I didn't miss a thing and you just helped my point. How long do we go back and let it slide? You just said "standard designs". Well, who the hell made it standard to begin with? Someone out there was the first, right? So, that being said, where do you draw the line?
 
Here's a simple rule of thumb for for ALL makers:

If the original maker OR company that produces a specific design(s) is still alive or in business those design elements, unless manipulated or altered significantly, are off limits. The only exception would be if the maker receives permission from the original living maker or company PERIOD END OF STORY.

Now, I believe most makers think certain shapes are grandfathered in for all to use such as v points, colors, simple shapes (dots, diamonds notched or not, squares, ovals) simple shape elements are fair game as long as they are not arranged in a uniquely familiar pattern know to be used primarily by a specific maker... Perfect example below of a cue by John Showman... If you duplicate this look of an unique arrangement of simple design elements knowing it was done beforehand you're copying imo...



A maker must try to put a "spin" or "twist" on the arrangement that can easily be seen. It's difficult to know everything that's out there but 99% of makers are not going to ACIDENTALLY copy something.

There are two ways to go as far as cue making. To see, like, and THEN create from inspiration OR to see (be shown), like (or not), and duplicate. Follow the suggestions in the fist two paragraphs and you're good.

............................................
 
One has to get past the 4 point Hoppe cues, dots and diamonds, and such. That was done at the beginning stages of custom cue making, and has become widely accepted by cuemakers and collectors as industry standards.

In general, most people that bring up this issue are speaking of designs like the Gina Rasputin. That design was completely "out of the box" thinking and propriety to Ernie. Those are the types cues, when copied, that will bring the criticism.

So, going with the logic Matt's buddy pointed out, if some builds a Rasputin copy and changes the veneer colors to a combination Erine did not use, then it is not a copy. To that, I say BS.

I designed the cue in my avatar with Ron Haley. It is unique... there is not another cue like it. But if someone built a copy and just changed the veneer colors, I would not be happy about it in the least bit
 
Worminator said:
One has to get past the 4 point Hoppe cues, dots and diamonds, and such. That was done at the beginning stages of custom cue making, and has become widely accepted by cuemakers and collectors as industry standards.

In general, most people that bring up this issue are speaking of designs like the Gina Rasputin. That design was completely "out of the box" thinking and propriety to Ernie. Those are the types cues, when copied, that will bring the criticism.

So, going with the logic Matt's buddy pointed out, if some builds a Rasputin copy and changes the veneer colors to a combination Erine did not use, then it is not a copy. To that, I say BS.

I designed the cue in my avatar with Ron Haley. It is unique... there is not another cue like it. But if someone built a copy and just changed the veneer colors, I would not be happy about it in the least bit
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Agreed.....
 
skins said:
Here's a simple rule of thumb for for ALL makers:

If the original maker OR company that produces a specific design(s) is still alive or in business those design elements, unless manipulated or altered significantly, are off limits. The only exception would be if the maker receives permission from the original living maker or company PERIOD END OF STORY.

Now, I believe most makers think certain shapes are grandfathered in for all to use such as v points, colors, simple shapes (dots, diamonds notched or not, squares, ovals) simple shape elements are fair game as long as they are not arranged in a uniquely familiar pattern know to be used primarily by a specific maker... Perfect example below of a cue by John Showman... If you duplicate this look of an unique arrangement of simple design elements knowing it was done beforehand you're copying imo...

A maker must try to put a "spin" or "twist" on the arrangement that can easily be seen. It's difficult to know everything that's out there but 99% of makers are not going to ACIDENTALLY copy something.

There are two ways to go as far as cue making. To see, like, and THEN create from inspiration OR to see (be shown), like (or not), and duplicate. Follow the suggestions in the fist two paragraphs and you're good.

............................................
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A agree with this.
 
Worminator said:
One has to get past the 4 point Hoppe cues, dots and diamonds, and such. That was done at the beginning stages of custom cue making, and has become widely accepted by cuemakers and collectors as industry standards.

In general, most people that bring up this issue are speaking of designs like the Gina Rasputin. That design was completely "out of the box" thinking and propriety to Ernie. Those are the types cues, when copied, that will bring the criticism.

So, going with the logic Matt's buddy pointed out, if some builds a Rasputin copy and changes the veneer colors to a combination Erine did not use, then it is not a copy. To that, I say BS.

I designed the cue in my avatar with Ron Haley. It is unique... there is not another cue like it. But if someone built a copy and just changed the veneer colors, I would not be happy about it in the least bit
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I agree with this as well.
 
I'm gonna build a tribute of a tribute, and call it a copy of a copy. Or maybe I will make a copy of a tribute. Or, a tribute to a copy....one thing for sure...no matter what I call it...it still won't be a Szam. Dang it...crap.....I mean, copy...tribute...
 
Worminator said:
One has to get past the 4 point Hoppe cues, dots and diamonds, and such. That was done at the beginning stages of custom cue making, and has become widely accepted by cuemakers and collectors as industry standards.

In general, most people that bring up this issue are speaking of designs like the Gina Rasputin. That design was completely "out of the box" thinking and propriety to Ernie. Those are the types cues, when copied, that will bring the criticism.

So, going with the logic Matt's buddy pointed out, if some builds a Rasputin copy and changes the veneer colors to a combination Erine did not use, then it is not a copy. To that, I say BS.

I designed the cue in my avatar with Ron Haley. It is unique... there is not another cue like it. But if someone built a copy and just changed the veneer colors, I would not be happy about it in the least bit
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According to that definition, it fits. I am just not sure, if one looks at it legally, if the industry standard holds or not. I have no idea, but at least your argument makes some good sense.
 
skins said:
Here's a simple rule of thumb for for ALL makers:

If the original maker OR company that produces a specific design(s) is still alive or in business those design elements, unless manipulated or altered significantly, are off limits. The only exception would be if the maker receives permission from the original living maker or company PERIOD END OF STORY.

Now, I believe most makers think certain shapes are grandfathered in for all to use such as v points, colors, simple shapes (dots, diamonds notched or not, squares, ovals) simple shape elements are fair game as long as they are not arranged in a uniquely familiar pattern know to be used primarily by a specific maker... Perfect example below of a cue by John Showman... If you duplicate this look of an unique arrangement of simple design elements knowing it was done beforehand you're copying imo...



A maker must try to put a "spin" or "twist" on the arrangement that can easily be seen. It's difficult to know everything that's out there but 99% of makers are not going to ACIDENTALLY copy something.

There are two ways to go as far as cue making. To see, like, and THEN create from inspiration OR to see (be shown), like (or not), and duplicate. Follow the suggestions in the fist two paragraphs and you're good.

............................................
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The cue in your picture is already a copy of an older Ginacue design.
 
macguy said:
The cue in your picture is already a copy of an older Ginacue design.
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I don't think it's a "copy"... The shape positions have been manipulated from Ernie's work enough that you know its not a Ginacue...
 
macguy.....that's amazing that you noticed that Showman emulated that design of Ernie.....I think cue-makers in general do this because there's only so much originality that can be argued pertains to any specific cue design. In all likelihood, everyone emulates each other. Bonds stated specific copyright licenses for some cues which I've tried to confirm but have been unsuccessful so far because I'd love to see what those cues were.....betcha the designs have been copied whatever those copyrighted designs are. Subsequent cues from others probably used a loophole I imagine but has anyone ever enforced a copyright claim on a cue being copied?

I didn't know of these apparent copyrights being issued to cues and so there may be enforcement actions that exist which I'm similarly unaware of.......my intuition is a copyright on a cue design has probably never been enforced otherwise I'd have heard about it by now & if it's never been enforced, it makes sense why most of probably didn't know a copyright could be obtained on a pool cue design......if it's not enforceable, what the heck good is it?

Anyone know more about this copyright protection for a pool cue......I designed my cue and maybe I want to get one......it's my own creation........never made before that I know of.........it would be fun to do and if it costs some dough, I don't care........just the novelty would be a kick.......but back to reality, anyone know of any copyright infringement being enforced on pool cues? What about all those counterfeit cues from the Pacific Basin? I've never read anything about copyright protection being enforced about that.....anyone know more about "actual" enforcement actions?

Matt B.

p.s. double red veneers.
 

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Jim Baxter said:
I would like to know WHO has come up with something NEW < Never before used .
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Are you serious? Do you look at cue pictures in the gallery? Have you not seen designs from Manzino, Black Boar, Tonkin, Richard Black, Thomas Wayne?????

Come on Jim... I know you have to be smarter than that comment above...

Let's just take the engraving design in my Haley avatar cue... please show me where that design exists anywhere on the planet.
 
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Type79 said:
Paul and Ellen Drexler....
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You could spend all day posting original PFD designs. You'll notice there haven't been any copies of Paul's work. There's very few other American makers that can do what Paul and Ellen do forget the crap coming out of Asia.
 
Nobody had better copy my design. I was only in my mid 20s, buying cues from Tim Scruggs. I sat down and drew with my own two hands, what I wanted my cue to be. here is the buttplate.

Anyone who copies it, you will be put to death. It will be the guillotine, the quickest method.

No, that's too nice. Make it the death by a thousand cuts.

No, that's not painful enough. I will pound your balls flat with a hammer.

No wait, that won't kill you. Back to number one. For now...

Thought this thread needed just a bit of humor at this point. Hey, I actually did do all the designing. So, should this design be retired, for good?
 
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