I think the incorporation of actual art work such as scrimshaw. That can really set a cue apart and is unlimited in it'a artistic scope.
http://www.scrimshander.com/WillieMosconi.html
"Tribute" cues? Seriously?
- Thread starter Monstermash
- Start date
I think the incorporation of actual art work such as scrimshaw. That can really set a cue apart and is unlimited in it'a artistic scope.
http://www.scrimshander.com/WillieMosconi.html
No.... change the ivory inlay and its a not a copy anymore... it's "inspired"
So I guess everyone here that "hates" the practice never flipped or sold a cue that could be considered a "copy", "tribute", or "inspired" cue?
Because I can tell you, the definition becomes very vague when there are cues to sell....
JV
Because I can tell you, the definition becomes very vague when there are cues to sell....
JV
I'll take it that pot shot was aimed at me Joe. I can tell you for certain I personally have never asked a cuemaker to copy another cuemaker's design.
Just inspired to post this to the thread..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA281OuU3rk
Jamie, absolutely not to single you out. I have seen some of the CDT guys flip flop when the heat is on the bottom of the pan...
JV
Haha, that's going to be the best answer, to be honest. When it comes to basic design and inlays, let's face it, it's been done.
There's still room for originality... But let's admit it as well, there's a fine line between being original and just plain uglyyyyyyy.
I guess I like the traditional, classic designs the best, and they are often repeated.
You can still get the Early American or Queen Anne furniture at the store, too. Some people have the taste for the classics.
On second thought , you are Correct , I was not even thinking of the Art , CNC, cues . They are Original for sure .
OK Joe, and I agree. I do have a Szam "tribute" cue on my site that does not belong to me... just listing for my partner.
This topic always comes up from time to time, and there is always going to be people on both sides of the fence as you well know. My stance is simple... I think diamonds and dots, Hoppe cues, and the like are fair game because those elements have been widely accepted in the industry as standards. I do not mind cues that are "inspired" by other makers, but the inspiration needs to be built upon and the end result need to be unique.
I think a great example of that id the S. Weston cue you have built with the propeller and the frame behind it.
At the end of the day, I like to see cuemakers using their own imagination to create unique cues. That is what drives my passion for the craft.
Well, here you have it again, although not exactly the same the first cue is a copy of an old I believe Meucci design.
http://s26.photobucket.com/user/the_diamond/media/010.jpg.html
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What is also a little funny to me is there are guys that have no idea about anything prior to 1986. Tad, great cuemaker, but lets face it, his first 100 cues looked like they were made in Paradise's / Bushka's workshop and his next 500 or more, were made at Ernies.
So lets be a little honest about history. Ernie made the ivory crown which BTW was a staple in Dick Black's arsenal as well as Strouds. So cue "design" borrowing is as old as dirt and quite frankly, doesn't mean dog d*ck doo doo at the end of the day. (IMHO)
On top of that, the best HAVE done it. Gus's 8 prong, some say is a take on Ernie's 8 prong, was also done by Schick and Stroud. Ernie made a domino cue (Dots in the backend :-:-:-
But Balabushka did it before him, did he copy? Good chance he might have. So what?
You could go on and on and on....if it wasn't for the internet and cue popularity no one would have ever pieced it together that cuemaking incest has spawned three eyed devils and horned half breeds.
Luckily there are a lot of cues, because you're going to need a lot of crosses when the burning starts.
JV
So lets be a little honest about history. Ernie made the ivory crown which BTW was a staple in Dick Black's arsenal as well as Strouds. So cue "design" borrowing is as old as dirt and quite frankly, doesn't mean dog d*ck doo doo at the end of the day. (IMHO)
On top of that, the best HAVE done it. Gus's 8 prong, some say is a take on Ernie's 8 prong, was also done by Schick and Stroud. Ernie made a domino cue (Dots in the backend :-:-:-
But Balabushka did it before him, did he copy? Good chance he might have. So what?You could go on and on and on....if it wasn't for the internet and cue popularity no one would have ever pieced it together that cuemaking incest has spawned three eyed devils and horned half breeds.
Luckily there are a lot of cues, because you're going to need a lot of crosses when the burning starts.
JV
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Wow, the Steinway 150th Anniversary cue Paul and Ellen built is a copy of a Meucci design... said no one ever...
Or, when someone sees the pfd cue, the first thing out of their mouth is not... look at that Meucci, it's beautiful!
There have been many musically inspired cues, but I yet to one cuemaker copy another cuemaker's design.
But like I have said, there are always going to be people on both sides of the fence on this issue...
Inspired or suggested, and more elaborately executed, but not original.
That is the point many of us have been trying to make. Even the best of them see something they like and want for themselves, so they just copy it.
Because the Meucci has a keyboard does not begin to constitute a copy nor even an inspiration. The Meucci is a cue with a keyboard slapped on the forearm which the Steinway cue is a complete flowing design with multiple compatible elements that compliment eachother to create one flowing design.
The picture does not show the rest of the meucci cue. It has musical notes and additional piano keys constituting a complete idea and design.
I went to Joel because it was affordable, not spending $5000 on a cue I can get for $500. No one on here has produced images of JDs exact copies either but just bashing the guy who is trying to feed his family. They are marked or signed by Joel and he doesn't use ivory, woods are changed and other subtle stuff, these are not counterfeits or being passed off as such. Tascarella has made Balabushka styled cues constantly and Mobley has made cues similar to Szamboti, Gilbert has made cues that look like many of the greats such as Balabushka, Szamboti and Southwest. I guess its okay for these guys since they are well known reputable makers, makes sense to me.
Exactly, if you ask a cue maker for a SW style cue they aren't going to tell you to go wait 10+ years and order from SW when you want it now.
Really? I posted this earlier I think.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=379525&highlight=Tribute
These are just what I saw the other day. I've seen tons of them in the past. All of them tagged as "tribute" cues. What a crock of $hit!
All of this is great......................but what about the bigger question.
In 25-30 years, will anybody care? So really, is this such a big issue.
Bigger fish to fry, gentlemen.
Carry on. :thumbup:
In 25-30 years, will anybody care? So really, is this such a big issue.
Bigger fish to fry, gentlemen.
Carry on. :thumbup: