"Tribute" cues? Seriously?

[Rjmoncrief]

Who cares, they are priced at about 10% of what the real deal costs, it's not like the guy can be making a mint out of them. Not everyone can afford a Gina, or a Tad, but they like the look.

Yep.......What he said.
Also, if they play just as good, then who really cares. I've never understood the infatuation with the highest end cues and makers that get 1000's of dollar$ for a cue that plays no better than my $200 cue. Unless ya got more money than you know what to do with then its ludicrous to pay that kind of money for a pool cue that your going to be afraid to play with.
Just my honest opinion.....:wink:

 

[pwd72s]

The big key here is intent...if the intent is to make someone believe they are buying a genuine whatever, then it better damned well be that genuine whatever...it's against the law to do otherwise.

 

[pdcue]

So I have been seeing a lot of so called "tribute" cues over the past few years. They are usually made by some crappy maker in Asia (most specifically JD) and quite frankly I'm getting a little sick of it. Where do they get off ripping off other makers designs and calling them "tributes" when it's obvious that they have no creative ability of their own so they just keep ripping off other's designs?

There is nothing about these cues that are made to honor the makers they are ripping off. They are just simply stolen designs made for their own personal gain.

So lets call a spade a spade and call them what they really are.. Counterfeits!

The last time I checked there are laws against this sort of thing. WTF?

Sorry - many quite accomplished cuemakers make what some now refer to as
"tribute" cues, and in general they are of acceptable market quality.

It seems quite obvious that all you really want to do is froth at the mouth towards
JD. So why don't you just contact them(him, it?)?

Dale

 

[classiccues]

I think tribute cues are ok...

EXCEPT...

When you are known more for them, than your own cue style.

You repeat any particular design more than once. A tribute should be a one off. If you make 4 or 5 cues off of someone else's initial design, then you should look in the mirror and reflect a little bit on your station in life.

JV

 

[Black-Balled]

The author looms above his page
And thinks it strange that at his age
He can not find the proper words
To describe his only world

One would think that in a life
Where no two snowflakes are alike
One would have a brilliant rhyme
For each and every bit of time.

-Neil Fallon

 

[Black-Balled]

Tribute:
1.
a gift, testimonial, compliment, or the like, given as due or in acknowledgment of gratitude or esteem.

 

[skins]

..................

?.....

Now, onto cues. Do you understand the implications of your "copy" hatred? A lot of Gus Szamboti's cues had Bushka rings, and other elements that looked like a Bushka. Have you ever criticized Gus for that? I've never seen it.

George was dead. Plus Gus was wayyyy more of an innovator of design than George. Gus would never have considered himself an artist but I think he was a mighty fine one.

Is Barry Szamboti not doing tribute cues in the design of his father's?

No he isn't. Barry is a family member who worked in the shop. They're his designs inherited through "his" business. Completely different

How about the Tascarellas'? Their cues are definitely in the Bushka style, very close, and could be called Bushka tributes, or even copies for some. Have you ever criticized those? I haven't seen it.

George was dead. The Petes are "carrying on" the tradition. That said they even push the design envelope as well. Id think George would approve.

None of these are valid examples of mid using designs

my whole point is the "Tributes" that bother me are one where the design being celebrated is one of a maker still in business or still living.
.

 

[leto1776]

I think tribute cues are ok...

EXCEPT...

When you are known more for them, than your own cue style.

You repeat any particular design more than once. A tribute should be a one off. If you make 4 or 5 cues off of someone else's initial design, then you should look in the mirror and reflect a little bit on your station in life.

JV

-R- cues come to mind. Can't remember the last time I saw an original -R- design posted here.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Joel Dadivas of JD cues is a great guy who is a family man. I have done business with Joel for years before he grew in popularity. He has done many original designs and also made designs using other makers works because he was asked to by customers usually making subtle changes in the woods, ring work and materials. I have sent him three pictures of cues I liked and put together one cue, a little bit of Gina, TAD, and Joss West in the mix.

Sorry but if you are a reputable American maker then you catch less flack it seems but not many cue makers are going to turn away a customer who ask for a cue to be built whether its the same as a design used already. He is not trying to pass these cues off as the real thing, its just the style of the cue he is building. Go check him out on Facebook, JD Custom Cue Makati.

As for Jerry Rauenzahn, he is a great cue maker also and has been doing it for so very long. If someone sends him a design especially Bushka then it should not be a problem, Balabushka style cues have been done over and over again as will many of the legendary cue makers out there as time goes on which is why you see TAD and Gina and Szamboti tributes or if you want to call them copies but they are usually not exact so copy is not a good word.

 

[skins]

Joel Dadivas of JD cues is a great guy who is a family man. I have done business with Joel for years before he grew in popularity. He has done many original designs and also made designs using other makers works because he was asked to by customers usually making subtle changes in the woods, ring work and materials. I have sent him three pictures of cues I liked and put together one cue, a little bit of Gina, TAD, and Joss West in the mix.

Sorry but if you are a reputable American maker then you catch less flack it seems but not many cue makers are going to turn away a customer who ask for a cue to be built whether its the same as a design used already. He is not trying to pass these cues off as the real thing, its just the style of the cue he is building. Go check him out on Facebook, JD Custom Cue Makati. .

The problem is "some" directly copy cues, like ones posted, from living makers and it's WRONG! Making a living off the intellectual property of others. Taking the "easy" way down the road. That's just plain wrong. Getting inspiration and creating from it is fine. We ALL get inspiration from everywhere. But to directly copy is just plain theft....Also, Your wrong by the way that not many will turn the work away... MOST will turn a direct copy away if the cue can be built by the original maker regardless of wait time and will suggest changes to make sure it's different enough not to be confused with the original. All the makers I've been associated with would....

 

[Fast Lenny]

The problem is "some" directly copy cues, like ones posted, from living makers and it's WRONG! Making a living off the intellectual property of others. Taking the "easy" way down the road. That's just plain wrong. Getting inspiration and creating from it is fine. We ALL get inspiration from everywhere. But to directly copy is just plain theft....Also, Your wrong by the way that not many will turn the work away... MOST will turn a direct copy away if the cue can be built by the original maker regardless of wait time and will suggest changes to make sure it's different enough not to be confused with the original. All the makers I've been associated with would....

That is a matter of opinion whether they would or wouldn't, I believe most would for the money. You saying most wouldn't is not a fact at all but speculation. Send them a picture and say you want a cue built exactly like this one from a living maker and see what they say.

 

[Bavafongoul]

leto.....I don't know about you but these cues Jerry has released that are 360's and butterflies look creative......there's a couple of cues right now in the Gallery that belong to Big-Tatoo which look pretty original to me.......and there was also a 4 pointer that had butterflies that looked very different that he did for deanoc.....and his Bushka copies are dead on exact when you ask him to make a reproduction.....his points are the exact same length and width as George used.......the guy is a good cue-maker and when his customers refer to their cues as Tributes......that's just us talking, and it's not on behalf of Jerry Rauenzahn either. He's just a very good cue-maker, especially his full splice versions, doing what his customers request him to do. The wrapless full splice Mosconi cue in the Gallery is just a dandy and not a lot of cue-makers would make one as fine as that cue. So I respectfully disagree and there's lots of cue-makers that don't get the recognition they deserve and Rauenzahn just happens to be one of them......IMO.

Matt B.

 

[Str8PoolPlayer]

The big key here is intent...if the intent is to make someone believe they are buying a genuine whatever, then it better damned well be that genuine whatever...it's against the law to do otherwise.

How many USA-based Corporations have been successful in stopping all of
Asia (and several Eastern European Countries) from fraudently counterfeiting
their Patented Products ? It's been going on, unfettered, since the 1950's.
China is the biggest offender, by far. I see Ads in the W/FS section wanting to
buy Southwest "copies". They Are Not copies, they are Counterfeit, period !

 

[Str8PoolPlayer]

That is a matter of opinion whether they would or wouldn't, I believe most would for the money. You saying most wouldn't is not a fact at all but speculation. Send them a picture and say you want a cue built exactly like this one from a living maker and see what they say.

I can tell you for a fact that Alex Brick will not duplicate another maker's work. He will insist on making subtle changes to the design so no one can ever
"mistakenly" misrepresent the Cue as being An Original. I'd like to believe most
cuemakers have that same work ethic but, sadly, I would be proven wrong.

 

[mia]

Monstermash........

You realize and acknowledged.that pool cue designs have been copied, duplicated, emulated, ripped off........since the first cues were made.........Has everyone heard of Burton Spain?

Cue designs can't be copyrighted........Even the best name cue-makers have copied their peers......some great names too.......Tascarella, Searing, Hercek, Mottey, etc. .....the list is endless........and to think this is stealing another person's hard work is naive.......sculptors, painters, jewelry & watch makers, car manufacturers, clothes designers.....this is how the real world functions.

So what would anyone propose? Never copy any cue design that's already been used? Might as well stop making pool cues if that's what anyone had in mind and I'm not saying they did.......but to get upset over cue-makers duplicating one another's designs is like getting upset that someone else is wearing a suit just like the one you just bought......it's the real world.......get over it but griping just makes you sound silly, petty and angry.

And some of these tribute cues are glorious looking.....take the GTB cue from Tascarella........or the Bushka Designs that Jerry R. has been releasing.......there's been lots of top notch cue-makers that have done this tribute cue thing and it's far better than referring to these Tribute cues that were made as "copies"......."Hey, look at my new Szamboti copy..." just doesn't sound as good as "look at my Szamboti Tribute cue"......and face it, that's what the cue world really is about......popularizing pool cues. When someone is spending thousands to have a Tribute cue made, the cue-maker and the new cue-owner can call that damn cue any friggin' name they want.......and the quality of some of these Tribute cues are over the top.

And allow me to upset you, and other Azers that feel like you do, a little more.......I have just such a cue arriving this afternoon and it's a NOT A TRIBUTE CUE........its actually a copy of Mosconi's 2nd favorite pool cue......and the cue-maker and I tweaked the design to render the design more handsome.......prettier....fancier........but it's still basically the original Mosconi cue design but a lot nicer. And I will put the quality of my cue's construction and finish up against any cue by any cue-maker..... I am damn proud and pleased to own it and call it what it is........a copy of another cue owned and played by the greatest pool player to ever live.......Mr. Willie Mosconi.

Matt B.

Fixed that for ya.

I find it HUGELY ironic that you call something a 'tribute' AND a 'copy' in the same sentence. If you want a Bushka, go buy a Bushka. If you can't afford one, then just come to grips with that.

I can't afford a Ferrari. But I'm not going to ask the guy down the road to build me a Ferrari clone. And why would I? At the end of the day when someone sees it and says "Sweet Ferrari man!", I'd have to tell them "Its not. Its a cheap copy because I couldn't afford the real thing." Do you think that guy would look at me and say "Awesome!!! That's TOTALLY acceptable!" I doubt it.

 

[mia]

That is a matter of opinion whether they would or wouldn't, I believe most would for the money. You saying most wouldn't is not a fact at all but speculation. Send them a picture and say you want a cue built exactly like this one from a living maker and see what they say.

If you went to Ernie, TW, Dennis Searing, Randy Mobley, Barry Szamboti, Andy Gilbert, Pete Tascarella, Keith Josey, MIke Bender, Paul Drexler, etc., etc. and said "Make me a cue with a TAD design" I'd bet they'd turn you down and say "No. Call Tad."

Did you go to any of them BEFORE contacting JD? Or did you know their answer without even having to ask?

 

[mia]

Tribute:
1.
a gift, testimonial, compliment, or the like, given as due or in acknowledgment of gratitude or esteem.

2. A word used by many in an effort to make the practice of copying something more acceptable and to mislead others into thinking that the action of copying itself had some kind of noble intention to honor another, as opposed to "I just want that without having to pay for the original".

 

[Spimp13]

So is the consensus that if a customer really likes the look of a $5k cue and can't afford it, he isn't allowed to pay $500 to have someone else makes one that looks like it and he is SOL? That doesn't seem right.

 

[mia]

So is the consensus that if a customer really likes the look of a $5k cue and can't afford it, he isn't allowed to pay $500 to have someone else makes one that looks like it and he is SOL? That doesn't seem right.

So if people loved the look of a Bugatti Veyron but didn't want to spend $2.2 million on it, would Volkswagon be ok with you setting up shop and selling a car with the exact same design for $50k and producing them for anyone and everyone that wanted one? Do you really think they'd say "Sure! Why not?!?! No reason the average joe can't have a car with the exact same look in his garage too... and for FAR Less than we charge! Fair play!"

 

[macguy]

So is the consensus that if a customer really likes the look of a $5k cue and can't afford it, he isn't allowed to pay $500 to have someone else makes one that looks like it and he is SOL? That doesn't seem right.

The chances are, the $5000.00 cue is already a copy of someone else's design from the past. Every single cue maker making cues today makes a model that is inspired by SW. In fact some have adopted it as their primary cue design.