"Tribute" cues? Seriously?
- Thread starter Monstermash
- Start date
Inspiration comes in many forms...
Maybe you would like to expound on this a little?
Which came first, the wall art or the cue? If the wall art than it's a cue that took direct inspiration from another medium which to me is OK.... Now if anyone wants to copy the CUE, well then that's a different story. I'd say to them "go find your own wall art"
please don't make me go back to vanilla. :embarrassed2:
Tony saw the wall and told me he thought it was a nice honor.
To me, that Black Boar is the prettiest cue I have ever laid eyes on. :bow-down: :yeah:
best,
brian kc
Why would he do that... he has his own opinion on the subject. Furthermore, most top makers do not even post here.
There, I fixed it.
Most cuemakers do read it. I posted an old picture of Gus Szamboti and his dog and quickly got a reply from Barry Szamboti. They are out there even if they rarely post.
I don't care what you call it, if I want a bushka looking cue and a high end maker will build it for me, I'm getting it built.
It's not gonna be called a tribute, copy, or any other bs name you wanna make up, it's gonna be what it is, a cue I like the looks of. PERIOD
It's gonna be built with the makers taper, tolerances, etc. it will play how that makers cues play.
Now I'm not gonna ask Szam, S, Showman, etc to make me a cue that looks like a SW (don't like the look anyway) but any of them could get close enough to what I want without going out of line with their normal designs
It's not gonna be called a tribute, copy, or any other bs name you wanna make up, it's gonna be what it is, a cue I like the looks of. PERIOD
It's gonna be built with the makers taper, tolerances, etc. it will play how that makers cues play.
Now I'm not gonna ask Szam, S, Showman, etc to make me a cue that looks like a SW (don't like the look anyway) but any of them could get close enough to what I want without going out of line with their normal designs
the op, Tom, has obviously struck a nerve with this thread.
To me, there are a few different categories of these cues.
Category 1: When I do my occasional searches on ebay for southwest cues, there are usually maybe one or two actual SW's and like 30 knockoffs such as Dr Cheng and Lycos. These low end lookalikes aren't meant to fool anyone. They are what they are; low end cues usually made in China for people who want a cheap SW imitation. These don't offend me.
Category 2: Counterfeits. What can you say about these? They are made with the intention of trying to fool someone. Rip offs, deception, the people who make and market them should be strung up.
Category 3:Tributes: I have seen Jerry R and Steve Klein (and others) make some brilliant tributes. Jerry's antique Brunswick styles and SK's Bushkas are amazing examples of what I feel are cuemakers paying homage. These kind of cues don't bother me at all.
Category 4: Custom Orders: If a customer asks a cuemaker to make a specific design that bears a great resemblance to another cue like a szam or Palmer or whatever, this seems fine to me. On the other hand, if a customer asks that a cuemaker make a copy of a known existing custom cue like the one Jamie had made, that has to be off limits and there is no grey areas on it.
Category 5: Lazy & Uninspired Customs: If a cuemaker is simply using the *distinct design style* of another makers cues in an unlimited way; meaning that they pretty much are copying another person's style, then, to me they would fall into this category. As a for instance, I don't think the Ariel C TAD tribute I posted earlier fits because these were a very limited run and I think the intent was to be complimentary toward the accomplishments of TAD. Others may disagree.
I'm sure there are some exceptions and overlap to all of these categories but, at least for now, this is how I have them sorted in my head.
One other thought. Maybe tributes should be limited to cues from makers who are no longer alive so you aren't taking $$ from them by using their designs.
best,
brian kc
To me, there are a few different categories of these cues.
Category 1: When I do my occasional searches on ebay for southwest cues, there are usually maybe one or two actual SW's and like 30 knockoffs such as Dr Cheng and Lycos. These low end lookalikes aren't meant to fool anyone. They are what they are; low end cues usually made in China for people who want a cheap SW imitation. These don't offend me.
Category 2: Counterfeits. What can you say about these? They are made with the intention of trying to fool someone. Rip offs, deception, the people who make and market them should be strung up.
Category 3:Tributes: I have seen Jerry R and Steve Klein (and others) make some brilliant tributes. Jerry's antique Brunswick styles and SK's Bushkas are amazing examples of what I feel are cuemakers paying homage. These kind of cues don't bother me at all.
Category 4: Custom Orders: If a customer asks a cuemaker to make a specific design that bears a great resemblance to another cue like a szam or Palmer or whatever, this seems fine to me. On the other hand, if a customer asks that a cuemaker make a copy of a known existing custom cue like the one Jamie had made, that has to be off limits and there is no grey areas on it.
Category 5: Lazy & Uninspired Customs: If a cuemaker is simply using the *distinct design style* of another makers cues in an unlimited way; meaning that they pretty much are copying another person's style, then, to me they would fall into this category. As a for instance, I don't think the Ariel C TAD tribute I posted earlier fits because these were a very limited run and I think the intent was to be complimentary toward the accomplishments of TAD. Others may disagree.
I'm sure there are some exceptions and overlap to all of these categories but, at least for now, this is how I have them sorted in my head.
One other thought. Maybe tributes should be limited to cues from makers who are no longer alive so you aren't taking $$ from them by using their designs.
best,
brian kc
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They are not "tributes", they could be called a lot of things, but they aren't tributes.
A "Bushka tribute" would be if somebody built a statue of George Balabushka and placed it in their front yard, or in front of their favorite pool hall.
You wouldn't call a statue of George Balabushka a reproduction, copy, inspired by, one-off, knockoff, whatever.
The "tribute" thing is corny, wrong, and borderline pretentious.
I don't think a "plain" copy can be considered a tribute - A "tribute" should be very fancy and PERFECT, not to mention they shouldn't be cranking out "tributes".
Call them Buska style not tributes.
Btw, I love the -R- Bushka style cues.
you forgot to end your comment with, imo.
I will respectfully disagree with you on tributes.
To my knowledge Jerry R and Steve Klein are not sculptors or bronze workers so I'm thinking *their way* of paying tribute to the legends is through the medium they know, cuemaking.
imo. :smile:
best,
brian kc
Many many moons ago, all music was played by people with instruments.
And people who sang country music were from the country.
Neither are true anymore except for a select few who hold fast to their integrity.
Ahh integrity....remember that stuff?
Yeah, that feeling you get when you take credit for something that you didn't do and it makes you feel slimy.
Perhaps money can sooth the stomach and distract us from the evil that we do. Maybe money is a suitable substitute for integrity.
Money.
This isn't about cues, its about money.
And integrity.
And people who sang country music were from the country.
Neither are true anymore except for a select few who hold fast to their integrity.
Ahh integrity....remember that stuff?
Yeah, that feeling you get when you take credit for something that you didn't do and it makes you feel slimy.
Perhaps money can sooth the stomach and distract us from the evil that we do. Maybe money is a suitable substitute for integrity.
Money.
This isn't about cues, its about money.
And integrity.
you forgot to end your comment with, imo.
I will respectfully disagree with you on tributes.
To my knowledge Jerry R and Steve Klein are not sculptors or bronze workers so I'm thinking *their way* of paying tribute to the legends is through the medium they know, cuemaking.
imo. :smile:
best,
brian kc
I don't have a problem with the cues or the cuemakers, but tribute doesn't fit.
The cues with the gold acrylic bands and everything are very cool.
Just because the cue resembles or someone made a substantial transformation of a
famous cue (like the Mosconi Balabushka) it is not a tribute to the cuemaker.
I consider a case like the Phil Eastwood "Legends" case a tribute:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=393206&highlight=phil+eastwood+legends
There was a time when these new J. Flowers "tribute" cases were referred to as tributes.
It didn't take long for them to lose their "tribute" status and become just plain old J. Flowers cases.
Now an original J. Flowers NVH case is barely more than a used case.
Tributes
Funny thread! I have a few of Rauenzahn tributes and will get one more made later this year. I have owned / played with a lot of cues, trying to find the hit, feel of a cue that a friend of mine had at RAF Lakenheath, Air Force Base. I run 68 balls in straight pool and he takes it from me. Come to find out he has had it over a year and has never made that many balls..... But that is another story. He tells me it is a Balabushka. I spend the next 30 years trying to find that hit / playability in a cue. I get to hit with another Balabushka years later. Steve Mizarak is in for Southern Bowling and Billiards, so I get to meet him and talk straight pool for hours. And then I get to play a few racks of straight pool with him and he allows me to hit a few balls with his Balabushka, "the Dove"! So I don't care what you call them tributes, copies, or whatever. All I know is I like traditional type cues that will provide me with that hit / playability.
THANK YOU, Jerry Rauenzahn for being a MASTER cue maker, and the willingness and understanding for what your customers are looking for in a cue
Mike
Funny thread! I have a few of Rauenzahn tributes and will get one more made later this year. I have owned / played with a lot of cues, trying to find the hit, feel of a cue that a friend of mine had at RAF Lakenheath, Air Force Base. I run 68 balls in straight pool and he takes it from me. Come to find out he has had it over a year and has never made that many balls..... But that is another story. He tells me it is a Balabushka. I spend the next 30 years trying to find that hit / playability in a cue. I get to hit with another Balabushka years later. Steve Mizarak is in for Southern Bowling and Billiards, so I get to meet him and talk straight pool for hours. And then I get to play a few racks of straight pool with him and he allows me to hit a few balls with his Balabushka, "the Dove"! So I don't care what you call them tributes, copies, or whatever. All I know is I like traditional type cues that will provide me with that hit / playability.
THANK YOU, Jerry Rauenzahn for being a MASTER cue maker, and the willingness and understanding for what your customers are looking for in a cue
Mike
Question. Is Jerry building his Balabushka tributes using the same construction methods as GB or simply building cues that are similar in appearance?
you forgot to end your comment with, imo.
I will respectfully disagree with you on tributes.
To my knowledge Jerry R and Steve Klein are not sculptors or bronze workers so I'm thinking *their way* of paying tribute to the legends is through the medium they know, cuemaking.
imo. :smile:
best,
brian kc
They are paying RENT not tribute.
Quit trying to make it sound "ok", it is what it is. As I said I love the -R- Bushka style cues.
paying rent is always great motivation. :wink: