Tribute cues....

again non cuemakers commenting on things they do not know about... i really have to stop responding to these threads.

every cuemaker on earth does work in someone elses style. the same people complaining are ordering their steve klein buska tributes and starting threads about hoppe ring ediquette and ordering every cue with a hoppe ring or a piloted SS joint. or their jeff olney sw style cues. stop it!

ross im not specifically pointing at you just using an example.

i have done the same tad tribute cue. i love the cue. i got an order from a customer and it was just easier to make 3 so i did. its easier to do the same process 3 times consecutive then set up for 3 different cues 3 times
 
That is a good looking cue. I like it.

So he could change a few things - it still doesn't really make sense to me copying Tad's overall design. I'm just a little puzzled. Maybe he cleared it with the Tad's.

Chris

I agree here as well, Chris. I do not think some people aware that some makers' cues are immediately identifiable by their ring work. Ring work is just as big a component in a cue's overall design as inlays are.

Lisa
 
again non cuemakers commenting on things they do not know about... i really have to stop responding to these threads.

every cuemaker on earth does work in someone elses style. the same people complaining are ordering their steve klein buska tributes and starting threads about hoppe ring ediquette and ordering every cue with a hoppe ring or a piloted SS joint. or their jeff olney sw style cues. stop it!

ross im not specifically pointing at you just using an example.

i have done the same tad tribute cue. i love the cue. i got an order from a customer and it was just easier to make 3 so i did. its easier to do the same process 3 times consecutive then set up for 3 different cues 3 times

These "non cuemakers" that keep "butting in" are also those that are handing you hard earned money for your work. If it weren't for these "non cuemakers", you would be stuck with a bunch of wood.

In any other industry, if craftsmen strutted around with their dick hanging low, they wouldn't have near as many customers and a hell of a lot more inventory. It kills me how this hobby is so much different than the real world, where we should all be oh-so grateful to be able to talk to a real live cuemaker. The funny thing is that most of the cuemakers that I have the highest respect for won't even post on AZ due to this mentality by most of the "cuemakers" here, and they damn sure won't ever act like this to their customers. There is a reason why you AREN'T one of those cuemakers.

I don't own a Klein.... but he does make a great cue. (and can make his own forearms, no less..) I also don't own an Olney, or any Southwest style designed cue.

I do have many hoppe ring cues as well as many traditional style cues. I can also tell you that each cue I own, the major components (handle, forearm, buttsleeve, inlays, wraps) were done BY THE CUEMAKER I ORDERED IT FROM.

-Ross
doesn't have a tribute.... you've got to believe...
 
again non cuemakers commenting on things they do not know about... i really have to stop responding to these threads.

every cuemaker on earth does work in someone elses style. the same people complaining are ordering their steve klein buska tributes and starting threads about hoppe ring ediquette and ordering every cue with a hoppe ring or a piloted SS joint. or their jeff olney sw style cues. stop it!

ross im not specifically pointing at you just using an example.

i have done the same tad tribute cue. i love the cue. i got an order from a customer and it was just easier to make 3 so i did. its easier to do the same process 3 times consecutive then set up for 3 different cues 3 times

I think it's pretty safe to say that the Hoppe ring is a 'universal' element, along with your diamond, notched diamond, peacock, spear, and dot. In fact, many of these same elements originally came from usage in the necks of guitars as fret markers. No one is complaining about the use of these elements, but in how they are used.

A piloted SS joint is more of a construction technique, and is pretty open for use, as are the other joint types...unless they are proprietary to the maker...Lambros Ultra joint, Layani Conical joint, Searing piloted SS 1/2 joint (as only he does it)...are a few examples that immediately come to mind.

Please don't tell me that since I am not a cue maker that I do not have a dog in this fight...because it's my hard earned dollars that is paying for the cue, therefore, I have some input.

Lisa
 
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you cant have both sides. if you copy you copy. its not whats good for me isnt good for someone else. you right its YOUR hard earned dollars so you do have some input. so does the guy that ordered his steve klein bushka tribute. was his money given to him free? saying those things are "universal" is about the worst arguements ive heard. "universa"l means copied the most.....

ross... i am not argueing with you. hate to tell you cuemakers dont post bc of ppl like you. hypocrits and know it alls. guys that think their sh1t dont stink and what they think is the only way...

calling in question my "CUEMAKING SKILLS" bc we dont agree just shows how unhitched you really are.
 
you cant have both sides. if you copy you copy. its not whats good for me isnt good for someone else. you right its YOUR hard earned dollars so you do have some input. so does the guy that ordered his steve klein bushka tribute. was his money given to him free? saying those things are "universal" is about the worst arguements ive heard. "universa"l means copied the most.....

ross... i am not argueing with you. hate to tell you cuemakers dont post bc of ppl like you. hypocrits and know it alls. guys that think their sh1t dont stink and what they think is the only way...

calling in question my "CUEMAKING SKILLS" bc we dont agree just shows how unhitched you really are.

I'm not trying to have both sides. At one point I thought there was nothing wrong with a tribute or copy.. but as time goes on my opinion on that has changed drastically.

As far as "people like me" - I'm not being a hypocrite, I don't hardly know anything about how to actually make a cue, and I assure you - my shit does infact stink, especially after a hard night of beer drinking..

But please show me where I called into question your "cuemaking skills" - I didn't. I called your attitude towards your customers into question.

-Ross
been hitched for 12 years... and I think she still loves me
 
I think it's pretty safe to say that the Hoppe ring is a 'universal' element, along with your diamond, notched diamond, peacock, spear, and dot. In fact, many of these same elements originally came from usage in the necks of guitars as fret markers. No one is complaining about the use of these elements, but in how they are used.

A piloted SS joint is more of a construction technique, and is pretty open for use, as are the other joint types...unless they are proprietary to the maker...Lambros Ultra joint, Layani Conical joint, Searing piloted SS 1/2 joint (as only he does it)...are a few examples that immediately come to mind.

Please don't tell me that since I am not a cue maker that I do not have a dog in this fight...because it's my hard earned dollars that is paying for the cue, therefore, I have some input.

Lisa

Lisa,

Define universal element... then tell me who made the determination that a slotted diamond with 4 dots in an array around it is any less important then an inlay by Ernie G, or Tony S?

Then tell me why the Tad ring would be off limits where a Bushka ring is not?

The ivory scrimmed peacock is a Gus Szamboti design, does it get less credence than the inlays in the Feathers cue by Gina?

Let me give you a hint.. there is NO such thing as universal element. Bushka designed a very specific ring, it was his thinking and his alone. So what makes his knowledge "universal" and someone elses' design off limits?

Let me also say there is NO grey line, you're in for a penny you are in for the whole pound. To be anywhere in between would make you a hypocrite.

BTW Thats what makes the whole arguement a joke.

JV
 
Lisa,

Define universal element... then tell me who made the determination that a slotted diamond with 4 dots in an array around it is any less important then an inlay by Ernie G, or Tony S?

Then tell me why the Tad ring would be off limits where a Bushka ring is not?

The ivory scrimmed peacock is a Gus Szamboti design, does it get less credence than the inlays in the Feathers cue by Gina?

Let me give you a hint.. there is NO such thing as universal element. Bushka designed a very specific ring, it was his thinking and his alone. So what makes his knowledge "universal" and someone elses' design off limits?

Let me also say there is NO grey line, you're in for a penny you are in for the whole pound. To be anywhere in between would make you a hypocrite.

BTW Thats what makes the whole arguement a joke.

JV

exactly my thoughts joe... just bc something is copied so much doesnt make it universal.
 
hey ross. are u my customer? have you ever given me any money. how about before you run your mouth (again) about things you know nothing about contact someone that has gotten a cue from me... my customer service is about as good as it gets... im about as easy as it gets. only thing that can improve is getting back faster bc i work all night and sleep in the day. so sometimes it takes me a day.


now i know your comeback will include "and i never will" so please come up with something original for me...
 
hey ross. are u my customer? have you ever given me any money. how about before you run your mouth (again) about things you know nothing about contact someone that has gotten a cue from me... my customer service is about as good as it gets... im about as easy as it gets. only thing that can improve is getting back faster bc i work all night and sleep in the day. so sometimes it takes me a day.


now i know your comeback will include "and i never will" so please come up with something original for me...

Dude... why are you getting all defensive? I'm not running my mouth.... I promise. Ask JCIN - he's heard me "run my mouth" before... It's much better in person.

I'm just pointing out what you've posted in the past 24 hours about your attitude towards your customer's (and potential customers) right to know about a cue they pay hundreds/thousands for.

Your viewpoint was "They don't know need to know". That's fine, that's your perogative. Then you proceed to itemize where you get all of your detailed components... I really don't care.

But since we're in the Tribute Cues thread, I'd like to see many many more of your TAD copies....

Happy cuemaking.

-Ross
doesn't know anyone with a Davey Cue...
 
trust me there are a few out there
since u asked here are the 3 i made one was ordered so i made 3 at the same time

the brown one i still have and 2 black ones sold...
TadTributecomposite.jpg

SANY0166.jpg

SANY0371.jpg

since your wondering. here is boti and titlist tribute forearms that i made myself
SANY1099.jpg
 
Ariel made those cues at the request of one of his dealers, who happens to be a great guy, no offense to him!!!

If they were really TAD Tribute cues, they would have been made with BEM, green/white spec linen, ss joint.

These cues were made out of many different kinds of wood.

The only thing that makes them TAD'ish is the one fancy ring in the butt. Definately TAD design.

Ariel has said that no more of these will be made.........

Here's a question for you.... Are the "TAD" cues being made now really TAD's?

I say NO.

TAD KOHARA is no longer making cues.

They should be called FRED cues, no?

Or are Fred's cue's also Tribute Cues?



Russ
 
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Ariel made those cues at the request of one of his dealers, who happens to be a great guy, no offense to him!!!

If they were really TAD Tribute cues, they would have been made with BEM, green/white spec linen, ss joint.

These cues were made out of many different kinds of wood.

The only thing that makes them TAD'ish is the one fancy ring in the butt. Definately TAD design.

Ariel has said that no more of these will be made.........

Here's a question for you.... Are the "TAD" cues being made now really TAD's?

I say NO.

TAD KOHARA is no longer making cues.

They should be called FRED cues, no?

Or are Fred's cue's also Tribute Cues?



Russ

the one that TATE first linked to was EXACTLY as you describe http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=138879&highlight=carmeli+tribute
but I was not condemming the seller or the maker for that matter, I wondered if others felt a little uneasy about a cue that was SO close in design as another famous cuemaker's is all...
 
As far as I'm concerned, a "Tribute cue" is just a cue-makers attempt at justifying copying another's design. I'm not going to venture saying if copying another's ideas are good or bad. That's completely up to customers and cue-builders conscience. I do feel that anyone who claims that the cue they built is a tribute cue is having conscience issues however as they are trying to make excuses for the design they just produced.

My 2 cents worth on the subject is if your conscience says it's ok to build that design then build it - if your conscience is screaming in your ear that it is wrong, then don't build it but don't try to ease your conscience by saying it's a "Tribute cue". That's just the wimpy way of trying to take a middle road and please everyone.

Dick
 
As far as I'm concerned, a "Tribute cue" is just a cue-makers attempt at justifying copying another's design. I'm not going to venture saying if copying another's ideas are good or bad. That's completely up to customers and cue-builders conscience. I do feel that anyone who claims that the cue they built is a tribute cue is having conscience issues however as they are trying to make excuses for the design they just produced.

My 2 cents worth on the subject is if your conscience says it's ok to build that design then build it - if your conscience is screaming in your ear that it is wrong, then don't build it but don't try to ease your conscience by saying it's a "Tribute cue". That's just the wimpy way of trying to take a middle road and please everyone.

Dick

To me, the word "tribute" should be reserved for departed or long retired cue makers, Paradise, Palmer, Balabushka, Szamboti, Martin, Rambow, etc. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I can't see making a tribute cue for a design that is currently available from the original maker.

That's the point I was trying to make. What sense is it?

Chris

Ps. I thought the Tad with the fiddleback wood was different enough from Tad's stuff to be a useful design - I thought it was pretty cool actually and not something you would see come out of their shop.
 
To me, the word "tribute" should be reserved for departed or long retired cue makers, Paradise, Palmer, Balabushka, Szamboti, Martin, Rambow, etc. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I can't see making a tribute cue for a design that is currently available from the original maker.

That's the point I was trying to make. What sense is it?

Chris

Ps. I thought the Tad with the fiddleback wood was different enough from Tad's stuff to be a useful design - I thought it was pretty cool actually and not something you would see come out of their shop.


See....that fiddleback is SAAAAAHHH-WWWWEEEEETTT! :eek: Some really pretty wood, and I'm sure VERY WELL made cue for under $1K.

Didn't think this thread would draw such venom. :sorry: I do want to thank everyone for their opinions though.
 
Here's a question for you.... Are the "TAD" cues being made now really TAD's?

I say NO.

TAD KOHARA is no longer making cues.

They should be called FRED cues, no?

Or are Fred's cue's also Tribute Cues?



Russ

I'm curious, does this logic also apply to Southwest Cues?
 
I personally LOVE "tribute cues". I think Chris has a point about the difference between a tribute and a copy. A tribute is made in the style or fashion of a master cuemaker who has passed on to that big lathe in the sky, while a copy is made when the maker is living.

One of the things people tend to forget is that, while it would be great to just wait until you could afford that $50,000 Bushka...there aren't too many floating around the market these days, and I damned sure can't afford one if it was dropped in my lap!

Because I can find makers that will work with me, I might not ever own an original, but I can come pretty close. I currently have a fancy Kleinbushka, an ebony Rambozauhn Titlist, and a Owenboti (Bob not Gabe). I'm not trying to sell fakes, I just want something representative of the style of cue that I grew up with. Unfortunately, I couldn't afford a fancy Bushka when I was a kid, and I still can't, but I have a player Kleinbushka that is so close that you would have a hard time telling the difference.

How many folks would really like to have a Shelby end up driving a Mustang with Shelby like looks? Maybe own a Chrysler 300 because they really like a Viper and can't find or afford one? I love the looks of a '59 Cadillac, and if I could find someone that could make me a reasonable copy for a tenth of the price of an original, I'd be on it faster than Oprah on a cupcake!

In most industries, as soon as a product or design comes out, there are companies that immediately use it. A lot of these ideas and products are patentable, and a little change here and there and a "new" product is in direct competition.

There are logical reasons for not re-inventing the wheel with every cue made. When the transistor or microchip was made, should the inventor been the only one allowed to use it?

Creativity isn't something that can be scheduled. If a cuemaker spent all day waiting for divine inspiration for new designs, they wouldn't get much work done, would they?

Let's face it, cuemakers do have clientele that have a few ideas of their own, too. Would you think about having a custom boot maker make you a pair of high dollar boots in whatever color and style that he saw fit? I'm sure you'd want his input as a professional, but are you really going to wear that artistic pair of flourescent orange and turquoise boots that he's been waiting to produce since he dreamed them up?

Artists have always copied the styles of others. We actually had "artistic periods" throughout history. I visited Rembrandt's museum when I was younger, and the Flemish artists went to schools to learn various styles of painting. Lots of the paintings looked very similiar, but to the discerning eye, you can tell the subtle differences. When Van Gogh first started painting, he did the same style of work that all the other Dutch artists of the time period did. He only did the work we know him by after he started veering away from the "norm" due to mental instability/lead poisoning.

My dad was an inventor that had several patents. His designs were ripped off on several occasions and it never seemed to bother him. His logic was that if you're truly the first with an idea, and do a good job with getting that idea out to the public, then you will be the one with the brand recognition (i.e. Coke, Kleenex, etc.).

Unless trickery or deceit is involved with the sales of tribute cues, I see absolutely no problem with them...

Steve

-A satisfied owner of tribute cues-
 
The thing I have to mention is this: I am under 30, have a wife, 3 kids, own my home, and the sundry of bills attached to middle class living. I doubt I will ever be able to affrod a "real" Tad, SouthWest, Boti or Bushka barring hitting the lotto or a rich dead relative. So the only way I can get the style I like, is to have "tribute" cues made in the under 1K range. They are custom to me in the style I like with my color choices. To me, that is the epodimy of Custom. I fully plan in the near future to do an early 70s Gina/Tad "Tribute". If my selected cue maker will not make it, then I will move on to someone who will. Simple as that. If calling it a "copy" instead of "tribute" will please the masses; I will remember it for the future galery post.


Josh
 
I think it's a bad idea to make "tributes" of cues that are still being made and available. It makes no sense to me and I would think it would raise the ire of the original maker.

Chris

I agree completely! I've done a couple of "Tribute Cues" but they were of Bushkas and signed by me. Have had several people ask me to make others but I've declined.


just more hot air!


Sherm
 
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