Trivia / History question.

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Irish634

Whatever
Silver Member
Hi All. This is probably a really dumb question, but I was answering a report at work today where a manager stated that we were "behind the 8-ball" for a customer's order. That phrase got me thinking.

Does anyone know the origin and/or circumstances on how the phrase "behind the 8-ball" actually came about? I am only curious because I think that the phrase is very widely known/used and I am sure there is probably an interesting story behind it.

Thanks,
Craig
 
Irish634 said:
Hi All. This is probably a really dumb question, but I was answering a report at work today where a manager stated that we were "behind the 8-ball" for a customer's order. That phrase got me thinking.

Does anyone know the origin and/or circumstances on how the phrase "behind the 8-ball" actually came about? I am only curious because I think that the phrase is very widely known/used and I am sure there is probably an interesting story behind it.

Thanks,
Craig
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Well, it's obviously an 8-ball reference. There are a few others out there. "Off The Wall" is a reference to grabbing a house-cue and that's my personal favorite!
 
i think behind the 8 ball comes from playing 8 ball and having the cue ball blocked by the 8 ball, blocking every shot being made.. saying being stuck behind the 8 ball is trouble.. i guess its a way of saying your in for a very difficult time...

chris
 
Irish634 said:
Hi All. This is probably a really dumb question, but I was answering a report at work today where a manager stated that we were "behind the 8-ball" for a customer's order. That phrase got me thinking.

Does anyone know the origin and/or circumstances on how the phrase "behind the 8-ball" actually came about? I am only curious because I think that the phrase is very widely known/used and I am sure there is probably an interesting story behind it.

Thanks,
Craig
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If you are "behind the Eight Ball" you cannot see your balls to shoot. Easily applicable to everyday life, when it appears you have no way out of a jam.
 
I think the 8b reference refers to the fact that it is your shot and your only option (in front of you) is no good.

Jude- what makes you think 'off the wall' is pool related? I have never heard such, but I really only care about myself anyway!!;)
 
Black-Balled said:
I think the 8b reference refers to the fact that it is your shot and your only option (in front of you) is no good.

Jude- what makes you think 'off the wall' is pool related? I have never heard such, but I really only care about myself anyway!!;)
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I've read it in a few books. I can't remember which ones but I'm sure if you google it, it'll come up. It was probably a Fels book but I could be wrong.
 
Black-Balled said:
I think the 8b reference refers to the fact that it is your shot and your only option (in front of you) is no good.

Jude- what makes you think 'off the wall' is pool related? I have never heard such, but I really only care about myself anyway!!;)
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and it's DEFINITELY pool-related.
 
Irish634 said:
... Does anyone know the origin and/or circumstances on how the phrase "behind the 8-ball" actually came about? ...
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I think it has nothing to do with the game 8-ball.

As I heard it, it refers to pea pool in which players draw numbers secretly (with "peas") to get a ball assigned to them and their goal is to pocket their own ball before someone else does. If someone pockets his own ball, he wins the bets. Or something like that. To be "behind the eight ball" is to have a high number and not much chance of winning.
 
off the wall

Eccentric, unconventional, as in That idea of opening a 100-seat theater is off the wall. This expression probably originated in baseball or some other sport in which the ball can bounce off a wall in an erratic way. [Colloquial; 1960s]

Main Entry: bizarre
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: wild
Synonyms: camp*, comical, curious, eccentric, extraordinary, fantastic, far out, freakish, grody*, grotesque, kooky, ludicrous, odd, oddball, off-beat, off-the-wall, outlandish, peculiar, queer, ridiculous, singular, unusual, way out, weird
Antonyms: everyday, normal, ordinary, usual
 
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Bob Jewett said:
I think it has nothing to do with the game 8-ball.

As I heard it, it refers to pea pool in which players draw numbers secretly (with "peas") to get a ball assigned to them and their goal is to pocket their own ball before someone else does. If someone pockets his own ball, he wins the bets. Or something like that. To be "behind the eight ball" is to have a high number and not much chance of winning.
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And to be "behind the one ball" means to have a low number and a better chance of winning. You better stick to the rule book Bob. I don't like your explanation here.

But NO, I will not play Straight Pool with you, unless you give me 50 to a 100.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think it has nothing to do with the game 8-ball.

As I heard it, it refers to pea pool in which players draw numbers secretly (with "peas") to get a ball assigned to them and their goal is to pocket their own ball before someone else does. If someone pockets his own ball, he wins the bets. Or something like that. To be "behind the eight ball" is to have a high number and not much chance of winning.
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Thank you Bob. Do you remember the reference for it? I have a few links so I can do some research on it and would add this to the list.

Craig
 
I don't think the common usage is pool related

The common usage is to indicate an unconventional approach to something or a unconventional idea and this may come from sports like handball where it is possible to play literally "off the wall".

It could also come from the old days of brainstorming sessions when a list of possibilities was often written on a blackboard in an engineering conference room. An "off the wall" idea was one that wasn't even posted for consideration.

Pool players use "off the wall" to mean playing with a house stick of course but I believe that is a niche meaning unrelated to common usage.

Hu



Jude Rosenstock said:
and it's DEFINITELY pool-related.
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Behind the 8

According to the Mike Shamos Encyclopedia book...'behind the 8 ball", started out when players would draw small balls with numbers on them to find the shooting order (Kelly Pool / rotation) ...a player drawing any number after the 8 did not have much of a chance to get to shoot. Hence, difficult position.
 
ajrack said:
According to the Mike Shamos Encyclopedia book...'behind the 8 ball", started out when players would draw small balls with numbers on them to find the shooting order (Kelly Pool / rotation) ...a player drawing any number after the 8 did not have much of a chance to get to shoot. Hence, difficult position.
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Yup, Shamos' Encyclopedia (an illustrated dictionary) is the first place to look for meanings and origins of pool words. While it confirms my (foggy) recollection of the origin of the term, I'm pretty sure I heard about the origin before Shamos published. He mentions Charlie Peterson as the reference and that Peterson says the term was in use by 1919.
 
Well, after some internet research I don't see any account of the phrase "off the wall" that attributes its origin to pool.
 
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