Try this at home. $100 if you can do it.

mohrt said:
The demonstration is only to prove that you can pocket balls simply with objective targets on the CB and OB alone. Now of course stan knows roughly where the pocket is by the visible rails. It is with this information that he chooses the initial objective targets on the CB/OB to find the correct eye position. From that point forward, center cue ball is all that is necessary to line up and pocket the shot.
Click to expand...

I don't see why the same old tired argument about subconscious adjustment vs. no adjustment doesn't apply. If your subconscious knows where the pocket is, you can say you are aiming wherever you want, but if the goal is to pocket the ball, you are going to have to hit the object ball in the right place.

CTE in all of its variations obviously works for a lot of people. 5,000 years from now people will still be arguing about why that is. 5,000 years from now when someone hints that there may be some subconscious adjustment built into the system people will still get upset for some reason. Honestly, I really don't care anymore. I'm thrilled for anybody that can get more enjoyment out of this game.

Maybe I'm just too hard to impress.
 
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I've never quite understood the significance of shooting into a covered pocket. I would think that anybody that has been playing pool for years would just intuitively know where the pocket is located. Once you cover the pocket, it's not like you then have no reference for where the pocket is at.
Click to expand...

To expand mohrt's comment, when people were arguing fiercely about CTE, one of the points made by CTE detractors (myself included) was that it claimed to be geometrically accurate, but no part of the system required knowing the location of the pocket (except in the most general sense, i.e. to the right). A few posters tried to illustrate how this was seemingly impossible and that the system required at least some subconscious tweaking.

I think I even remember issuing a specific challenge to shoot into a hidden pocket, which JB said is absolutely possible, and Stan illustrates here (though it would have been interesting if this video was around at the height of the debate).

It's been a while and since then I have lightened up about aiming systems in general, but I tend to agree with you... this is instinct, letting your peripheral view of the rails tell you where they come together to make the pocket. It's a cool demonstration of what the mind and eyes are capable of when they work together.

I think it can be a powerful thing if taught to players with the right mindset. I'm not one of them sadly but I wish Stan success and hope it helps people pocket balls.
 
BasementDweller said:
I've never quite understood the significance of shooting into a covered pocket. I would think that anybody that has been playing pool for years would just intuitively know where the pocket is located. Once you cover the pocket, it's not like you then have no reference for where the pocket is at.

Actually, it's a bit of a head scratcher because someone that is shooting into a covered pocket would almost have to be shooting totally by instinct. This seems completely opposite of going through a systematic process of aiming.

Not looking to hijack this thread, I've just never understood the significance of this.

I'm not really interested in setting up a curtain to test it out myself.



***Edit***
Just wanted to mention that I have been impressed by all the high runs that have recently been posted by the CTE/Pro One advocates. Something to think about...
Click to expand...

The point being, with aiming systems, all you really need is a reference for where the pocket is. If you know it's a certain direction, you can set up perfectly for that pocket only knowing cueball location, object ball location and general direction of pocket.
 
I hit the same angles 300 million times in my life

If you don't know where the pocket is and recognize the angle of any shot on the table ( Memory Recall )after 40 years, you should take up a new hobby.
You should know that after a few years of steady play, align properly and don't twist your arm, the ball might just fall in.
 
CreeDo said:
To expand mohrt's comment, when people were arguing fiercely about CTE, one of the points made by CTE detractors (myself included) was that it claimed to be geometrically accurate, but no part of the system required knowing the location of the pocket (except in the most general sense, i.e. to the right). A few posters tried to illustrate how this was seemingly impossible and that the system required at least some subconscious tweaking.

I think I even remember issuing a specific challenge to shoot into a hidden pocket, which JB said is absolutely possible, and Stan illustrates here (though it would have been interesting if this video was around at the height of the debate).

It's been a while and since then I have lightened up about aiming systems in general, but I tend to agree with you... this is instinct, letting your peripheral view of the rails tell you where they come together to make the pocket. It's a cool demonstration of what the mind and eyes are capable of when they work together.

I think it can be a powerful thing if taught to players with the right mindset. I'm not one of them sadly but I wish Stan success and hope it helps people pocket balls.
Click to expand...

It's not instinct. But if anyone thinks it is then please go ahead and film yourself doing the same thing.

I am willing to pay for it. We aren't betting, it's a simple challenge like the guy who put up all the runout challenges several months ago.

First person who puts up three videos matching Stan's accomplishment get's a crispy $100 bill. I will even up the ante and say that the first person who does it can have either $100 cash or $200 in case credit.
 
SmoothStroke said:
If you don't know where the pocket is and recognize the angle of any shot on the table ( Memory Recall )after 40 years, you should take up a new hobby.
You should know that after a few years of steady play, align properly and don't twist your arm, the ball might just fall in.
Click to expand...

Ok prove it. It's easy to say this and harder to prove it in my opinion.
 
I saw Stan do this in person and from all over the table at random spots. I can assure you this isn't smoke and mirrors.
 
SmoothStroke said:
If you don't know where the pocket is and recognize the angle of any shot on the table ( Memory Recall )after 40 years, you should take up a new hobby.
You should know that after a few years of steady play, align properly and don't twist your arm, the ball might just fall in.
Click to expand...

No doubt with 40 years of practice you can get pretty good at shooting shots purely from memory recall. I'm not sure how that would hold up on blind double and triple bank shots, I wouldn't know. But no doubt that can be effective. I'm sure there are many, many people that shoot this way and are happy with their results.

But this demo isn't about that. Stan is not shooting these shots purely based on years of memory recall and shooting at a precise angle. Stan is doing this:

A) determining the objective targets on the CB and OB given the visuals for the shot (CB/OB/Pocket relation). Because there are visible rails, this determination is quite possible without actually seeing the pocket.
B) finding the perfect eye position using the objective targets. this is using CB and OB alone. The pocket was only used for choosing the targets.
C) moving in to center cue ball, and shooting straight through center cue ball, using the cue ball alone for this entire step. the object ball was only used to find perfect eye alignment.

That is it. That is how this system works. The curtains are there only to demonstrate that the pocket is not used to align and shoot in the shot. There are no tricks or 40 years of precise angle recognition involved in the process.
 
JB Cases said:
That's what I was thinking but my friend isn't fast enough to catch all the missed balls :-)
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John,

I knew someone would bring that up.

I think Mr. Stan should make a video with the curtain spitting the screen. Maybe then some of the nay sayers will start to believe.

I think it was 8pack that suggested that Mr. Stan could see under the curtain.

Best Regards,
 
Hell I can barely make a bank while being able to see the whole table
and he makes em without seeing the other rail!!
I need to make a trip to Stan's since he is only about 3 hrs from me!
 
First, Stan did a great job with the videos...and the banking video is the most impressive IMO.
Dave did a similar video a few years ago, I argued that he still knew where the pocket was, I was challenged to prove that it could be done without CTE.. I did it and posted a video.
Neither Dave or myself were 100% accurate, however, I said then and I still say, there is enough other visual references to allow you to hit the pocket, and there is still enough of the table visible in Stan's video for your mind to fill in the missing pieces.
This is not a knock on Stan or CTE, I do not care which tools you use as long as you get the job done. Stan obviously knows his tools, and has mastered them.
I am fairly certain however I could set it up to where he could not pocket or bank the balls by removing the view of the rails. Think of it as being in a row boat in the middle of the ocean, which direction do you row? If you use the sun or stars you can get somewhere, however on a cloudy night you may go in circles.
 
pool101 said:
I am fairly certain however I could set it up to where he could not pocket or bank the balls by removing the view of the rails. Think of it as being in a row boat in the middle of the ocean, which direction do you row? If you use the sun or stars you can get somewhere, however on a cloudy night you may go in circles.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I don't think I can do what Stan did. I probably can't make those shots every time even without a curtain.

But I'm an amateur. I do think that if you got an honest to goodness pro who has never heard of CTE and set up the same shots, he would nail them.
 
BasementDweller said:
I've never quite understood the significance of shooting into a covered pocket. I would think that anybody that has been playing pool for years would just intuitively know where the pocket is located. Once you cover the pocket, it's not like you then have no reference for where the pocket is at.

Actually, it's a bit of a head scratcher because someone that is shooting into a covered pocket would almost have to be shooting totally by instinct. This seems completely opposite of going through a systematic process of aiming.

Not looking to hijack this thread, I've just never understood the significance of this.

I'm not really interested in setting up a curtain to test it out myself.



***Edit***
Just wanted to mention that I have been impressed by all the high runs that have recently been posted by the CTE/Pro One advocates. Something to think about...
Click to expand...


Trick shots.

No different than "the handkerchief shot" where you cover the balls and call one, or even wing shots. It's a trick anyone can get good at and here's why: a couple of years ago I took a lesson from Ray Martin at his house down in Florida. We're about to start and the power goes out in his neighborhood so we do the lesson with the available natural light streaming through a couple of sliding glass doors. On one shot to the side pocket facing the doors the backlighting was so strong that my eyes couldn't adjust and it was impossible to clearly see the rail on that side of the table. I remember getting up off one shot and then getting back into shooting position grousing, “It’s tough to see the side pocket,“ and Ray unforgivingly cracked, “It hasn’t moved -- it’s in the same spot it’s been for the last 100 years.”

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
Trick shots.

No different than "the handkerchief shot" where you cover the balls and call one, or even wing shots. It's a trick anyone can get good at and here's why: a couple of years ago I took a lesson from Ray Martin at his house down in Florida. We're about to start and the power goes out in his neighborhood so we do the lesson with the available natural light streaming through a couple of sliding glass doors. On one shot to the side pocket facing the doors the backlighting was so strong that my eyes couldn't adjust and it was impossible to clearly see the rail on that side of the table. I remember getting up off one shot and then getting back into shooting position grousing, “It’s tough to see the side pocket,“ and Ray unforgivingly cracked, “It hasn’t moved -- it’s in the same spot it’s been for the last 100 years.”

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

Mr. Martin is right. But this is not trick shots. This is video proof of concept.

So with all your experience you should be able to duplicate the demonstration easily.
 
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