And she's a bad &%#$@@* ##$&*@% too.
Tuning Stones XXVl - A Player's Experience
- Thread starter rickwen186
- Start date
And she's a bad &%#$@@* ##$&*@% too.
This is the entire premise of your argument. Is this a tournament rule that "gaps occurring at random should be accepted"?
But if this gap happens to occur while you're racking, then shouldn't you, according to your own premise, accept it?
If you felt you needed to rack a perfectly tight rack, then that suggests that you couldn't accept any gaps that were unfavorable for you. So it seems that you're guilty of the same "infractions" that you've accused your opponent of doing.
And J.B beat her opponent in the 2nd round 9-2. :wink:
justaplayer
Banned
No wonder he's butt hurt.
Actually a very legit beef. However, nothing will be done about it. I do know that watching the stream, the racking struggles were a pain...
Rickwen evidently got a good lesson on how to doo-da a 9 ball rack.
I think it's a shame that major tournament play has come down to this. I recently watched an old youtube match between McCready & Strickland. Nobody bothered checking the rack.
Rickwen evidently got a good lesson on how to doo-da a 9 ball rack.
I think it's a shame that major tournament play has come down to this. I recently watched an old youtube match between McCready & Strickland. Nobody bothered checking the rack.
No - the entire premise of my POST is the disrespect I was shown when trying to politely find out how to handle the situation in the future from MZ.
I agree with you in that it should be accepted that a perfect rack is not possible and that no gaps should be scrutinized. I'm just saying that when both players have preferences it becomes impossible to rack. I try to freeze the front two balls and the back two balls as this gives the breaker a good clean spread without the 9 ball diving into the corner pocket. I you can argue that even that is unethical as you are accepting gaps that do not cause the 9-ball to dive...I will concede your point. but, if the racker is racking "fairy" which ill define as not scrutinizing where the gaps are and doing his honest best effort, then the breaker should NOT be able to require a rerack.
I don't understand why Zuglan doesn't change the rule to rack your own and 9 ball doesn't count on the break in bottom two corner pockets.
Yes. The cat is unfortunately out of the bag on this issue. Pretending like this isn't going to happen every year from now on won't solve the problem.
It sounds like Mike Zuglin made his position clear in the players' meeting when he said if you have racking issues, take it to a referee.
The right move would have been to call over a ref during the match and explain that you are having trouble pleasing your opponent and ask the ref to make a decision on what to do. Maybe the ref would have had you rack and check your racks and then declare the racks acceptable for play. Or maybe ref would have racked himself. There were options, and you can't worry about how it looks to outsiders or to the opponent.
Mike is a very busy person during the tournament. You have no idea what he goes through, and it's easy to catch him at a bad time, so if you're going to approach him anytime during that event, your questions had better be significant or you could feel some backlash.
The right move would have been to call over a ref during the match and explain that you are having trouble pleasing your opponent and ask the ref to make a decision on what to do. Maybe the ref would have had you rack and check your racks and then declare the racks acceptable for play. Or maybe ref would have racked himself. There were options, and you can't worry about how it looks to outsiders or to the opponent.
Mike is a very busy person during the tournament. You have no idea what he goes through, and it's easy to catch him at a bad time, so if you're going to approach him anytime during that event, your questions had better be significant or you could feel some backlash.
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Hi Fran and thanks for you Point of View. I have learned my lesson for sure..I wont hesitate in the future to call a ref after 1 or 2 requests for a rerack.
On the short temper front, I have run large evens in my area numerous times with lesser equipment and, respectfully, I defy you to find one person in the York, Harrisburg, Baltimore, Lancaster, Philadelphia area who will indicate to you that I ever treated them with anything that could be considered disrespect. I value EVERY single player that comes to my events and would NEVER turn my back on them.
To the OP, a lot of this stuff is very difficult and sometimes even unfair but Mike is doing the very best he can to put a top notch tourney together & he has succeeded. Don't throw in the towel on the whole shootin' match. These racking issues have been going on for a long time. This forum is an excellent place to air your grievances if done in a professional manner, which you have done. Don't quit.... Practice harder & come back with a vengeance.
Backlash from a guy I'm paying an entry fee to? Don't think so.
Yes, good post. But I also think that this racking issue is probably a sore spot for Mike Zuglan because of his own policies. He's apparently very adamant about rack-for-your-opponent and wooden racks, but also about "I don't want any racking arguments." Something has to give there, and everyone knows it including Zuglan, which is why he's probably defensive about the whole issue.
I've known Mike for a very long time and I applaud him in creating such a successful and long running event. That said, we all can always do better and it's wise to pay attention to the feedback you get from your players and fans. Without them we have no event!
If you've ever played on the Joss tour, you become very familiar with Mike's position on this.
If it's rack your own, then it becomes a who can cheat/tilt/rig the rack to their advantage, better than their opponent.
Notice how (and this is absolutely everywhere) how an individual will take 10 minutes with 4 or 5 bad racks that are rejected, to give their opponent a good rack, but when it's rack your own, it takes them all of 3 seconds to give themselves a perfect rack with balls flying into the corner pocket at warp speed.
Unless you are living on another planet, EVERYONE knows this.
So by making it rack your own, you are basically accepting the "everyone cheats for themselves" 9ball scenario, and to a purist old school guy like Mike, he hates it.
I've seen Mike throw people off the tour for acting like idiots, only to have them beg to be let back on because they took a pay cut because of it.
But the funniest thing i saw was when someone was whining about the rack that their opponent gave them (when it was perfectly fine) and they got into an argument, and called Mike over.
Mike told the guy breaking that he was going to rack for him, and didn't want the guy to check the rack, and that he would have to break it or forfeit.
So Mike throws up a rack in a half a second, and the guy breaks, and it was a total slug.
I think maybe 3 balls hit a rail. It was hysterical.
Then he asked the guy if he wanted him to continue racking for him.
Guy didn't bittch about his opponents rack anymore.
Mike gives ZERO f@#%s about who gets upset or not.
You don't like it, don't play.
And Turning Stone will always fill up forever as a result.
If it's rack your own, then it becomes a who can cheat/tilt/rig the rack to their advantage, better than their opponent.
Notice how (and this is absolutely everywhere) how an individual will take 10 minutes with 4 or 5 bad racks that are rejected, to give their opponent a good rack, but when it's rack your own, it takes them all of 3 seconds to give themselves a perfect rack with balls flying into the corner pocket at warp speed.
Unless you are living on another planet, EVERYONE knows this.
So by making it rack your own, you are basically accepting the "everyone cheats for themselves" 9ball scenario, and to a purist old school guy like Mike, he hates it.
I've seen Mike throw people off the tour for acting like idiots, only to have them beg to be let back on because they took a pay cut because of it.
But the funniest thing i saw was when someone was whining about the rack that their opponent gave them (when it was perfectly fine) and they got into an argument, and called Mike over.
Mike told the guy breaking that he was going to rack for him, and didn't want the guy to check the rack, and that he would have to break it or forfeit.
So Mike throws up a rack in a half a second, and the guy breaks, and it was a total slug.
I think maybe 3 balls hit a rail. It was hysterical.
Then he asked the guy if he wanted him to continue racking for him.
Guy didn't bittch about his opponents rack anymore.
Mike gives ZERO f@#%s about who gets upset or not.
You don't like it, don't play.
And Turning Stone will always fill up forever as a result.
justaplayer
Banned
Amen brother. Mike is very clear about his racking rules. His player meeting is over 30 minutes long. He covers all the rules. They are also on the website. If you don't like the rules....don't play.
I say we start this guy a Go Fund Me account for his bruised ego. Sounds like he's going to need years of therapy to recover from this. Get over it.
To Superstar- I applaud the way mike handled that, thanks for the perspective.
To justaNobody- I'll recover just fine, are you old enough to be on the Internet this late?
If there is one truth about the Joss tour and Turning Stone, it's that ZUGLAN is gonna be the one smiling at the end of every altercation.
He's gonna turn to everyone with a huge grin on his face, and just shake his head and laugh at how someone actually they were going to change his mind by complaining.
LOL
He's gonna turn to everyone with a huge grin on his face, and just shake his head and laugh at how someone actually they were going to change his mind by complaining.
LOL
Several people have mentioned how inflexible Zuglan is on the breaking issue. True, he has not gone to a racking template. But not all Turning Stone events have used a rigid rule that loser racks. For several events, Mike's rule was loser racks unless both players want to play winner racks. Apparently Mike rejected that approach after trying it several times.