Exactly, he fills his field and that's all he cares about. If he can get lucky and have a dozen or so players drop out... bonus money, the shady way. Like I said, if that's not shady to you, your morals are questionable. Oh well, that's pool for ya.
Turning Stone - rip off
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Exactly, he fills his field and that's all he cares about. If he can get lucky and have a dozen or so players drop out... bonus money, the shady way. Like I said, if that's not shady to you, your morals are questionable. Oh well, that's pool for ya.
Excuse me Andrew, who are you to question my morals? Because YOU do not agree with someone elses business practices does not give you the moral high ground. You are just another mortal like me and thousands of other AZ posters. Mike Zuglan has done more for the game of pool than you will ever even dream about doing! The choice between you and Mike Zuglan? It's not even close! He's a doer and your a complainer.
Lyn
Lyn -- Memories can cloud quickly on this kind of stuff. Here's a little history (irrelevant to the points you've been making):
T.S. I (July, 2000) -- 32-player invitational, $20,400 added money. Immonen defeated Hernandez in the final.
T.S. II (May, 2001) -- 128 players, $50,000 added. Bustamante defeated Reyes in the final.
T.S. III (Aug., 2001) -- 32-player invitational, $20,400 added. Williams defeated Immonen in the final.
T.S. IV (Feb., 2005) -- 96 players, $15,000 added. Tavernier defeated McCreesh in the final.
T.S. V (Aug., 2005) through T.S. XXVII (Jan., 2017) -- 128 players, $25,000 added.
There is a reason why a lot of players don't go to this tournament. I think it's a nice venue, it's on 9 ft & all that but there is just too many stupid rules especially racking. It don't fill up a month in advance. It's a points event so I tried to sign two months ago and he told me they have been full for months. No big deal that's great for him but it would be nice to give the players wanting to earn points a spot or maybe open up the field so it's more money for him, the players, and everyone. It is his tournament so he can do what he wants but just a suggestion. Keeping the players money is a joke if doesn't go back to prize fund. I know he would not refund Amar, Oscar or his Dad.
I understand the opinions on both sides of the fence.
Here's my 2 cents, FWIW. Mike Zuglan runs a strong regional tour. Again, it's the longest-running regional tour in the United States. He wanted to create the Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour because of the favoritism shown to other professional players at events he attended, as one example out of many.
Mike will not let anything influence how he runs his tour. If the players are upset with him because it's a Mosconi points event and they want to be seeded, his thoughts are that this points business should not enter into his realm of his tournament process. His goal is to have a fair tournament to all players, run by a strict set of rules, and truth be told, we who live in this area are very fortunate that the Turning Stone Casino continues to sponsor this tour at their beautiful facilities, along with several other sponsors.
Why should Mike change his rules to accommodate the WPA, BCA, Mosconi Cup points, et cetera? He shouldn't, and I like that about him.
Ever since Joe Tucker came out with that racking book -- (sorry, Joe :grin
-- everybody has learned how to rig a rack and break a rigged rack or recognize a rigged rack. They look for the cracks in the rack. This is no secret among players. They know who the best rack riggers are, though there are a few players who when they rack their own will give themselves a slug rack (Sorry, Keith). 
Mike Zuglan stands by his rules and won't budge for anything or anybody. I kind of like that about him. If the refund policy is stated beforehand, then it's buyer beware kind of thing. If you think there may be a chance you cannot attend the Joss Turning Stone event, then don't sign up. There's plenty of people who will take that place in line. This is one of the very, very few pool tournaments that does fill up ahead of time. It always has and always will. That is because everyone knows going in what to expect. There are no hidden surprises.
I will add that it is my opinion that Mike probably -- with an emphasis on "probably" -- does not really care what others think as it pertains to the rules or how he runs his tour. There is a strong pool contingency in the Northeast, and the Joss Tour has been a godsend to us pool aficionados who don't want to spend big bucks to go to Vegas or go out West or go to Texas or Louisiana. We like having the Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour in our neck of the woods.
Here's my 2 cents, FWIW. Mike Zuglan runs a strong regional tour. Again, it's the longest-running regional tour in the United States. He wanted to create the Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour because of the favoritism shown to other professional players at events he attended, as one example out of many.
Mike will not let anything influence how he runs his tour. If the players are upset with him because it's a Mosconi points event and they want to be seeded, his thoughts are that this points business should not enter into his realm of his tournament process. His goal is to have a fair tournament to all players, run by a strict set of rules, and truth be told, we who live in this area are very fortunate that the Turning Stone Casino continues to sponsor this tour at their beautiful facilities, along with several other sponsors.
Why should Mike change his rules to accommodate the WPA, BCA, Mosconi Cup points, et cetera? He shouldn't, and I like that about him.
Ever since Joe Tucker came out with that racking book -- (sorry, Joe :grin
-- everybody has learned how to rig a rack and break a rigged rack or recognize a rigged rack. They look for the cracks in the rack. This is no secret among players. They know who the best rack riggers are, though there are a few players who when they rack their own will give themselves a slug rack (Sorry, Keith). Mike Zuglan stands by his rules and won't budge for anything or anybody. I kind of like that about him. If the refund policy is stated beforehand, then it's buyer beware kind of thing. If you think there may be a chance you cannot attend the Joss Turning Stone event, then don't sign up. There's plenty of people who will take that place in line. This is one of the very, very few pool tournaments that does fill up ahead of time. It always has and always will. That is because everyone knows going in what to expect. There are no hidden surprises.
I will add that it is my opinion that Mike probably -- with an emphasis on "probably" -- does not really care what others think as it pertains to the rules or how he runs his tour. There is a strong pool contingency in the Northeast, and the Joss Tour has been a godsend to us pool aficionados who don't want to spend big bucks to go to Vegas or go out West or go to Texas or Louisiana. We like having the Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour in our neck of the woods.
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If you support and defend shady business practices, I'll judge your morals all day. And I'll judge his no matter how many tournaments he's held as if that's supposed to put him on Mt Rushmore. As long as he keeps doing this, I'll speak out against it. I don't care what he's done or plans to do, wrong is wrong and I don't bite my tongue.
I respect that. We're all entitled to our own opinions.
Just like I think the WPA and the BCA organization sucks a big weenie. They continue to flourish while professional pool dies a slow an ugly death here in the United States.
You really think someone should be kicked out of the tournament so that you can have their spot since you are a good player and want a shot to earn points? I find it hard to believe somebody could even consider this line of thinking. Aside from how obviously wrong that would be, think about the logistics. How would Mike choose who gets kicked out? What if that person already made arrangements with their employer to get approved for the time off and the use of their vacation days, and what if they already paid for their airfare and hotel, and what if they had already cancelled other things in their life and rearranged their schedule so they could attend, etc? What would cause you to think that you are somehow more important than any of the guys that signed up before you?
Or perhaps you were thinking maybe he could find a volunteer to relinquish their spot instead of kicking someone out involuntarily and you just didn't say that. But even if that were the case, what about the people on the waiting list who signed up before you that you are asking to be put in front of? What would make you think that you are more important than they are? And why should Mike have to go through the hassle of dealing with all this just because you wouldn't sign up earlier when spots were still open?
Another obvious question is why not just sign up for the event as soon as he allows sign ups, instead of risking waiting so long to sign up? It would seem that signing up early is what a responsible person would do who wants points and has a good chance to earn some like you do. Signing up "early" wouldn't even be much of a gamble because, since the points are important to you, making it there would be high on your priority list and so there isn't much that could come up that could keep you from going, but even if something unexpected and important did come up it's only 200 bucks.
It's in my neck of the woods as well... but there's a lot of pool tours up here. Sorry, wrong is wrong. He doesn't have to care. Doesn't have to care about the players... clearly he doesn't. I understand a lot of people like him and clearly they're go to bat for him. And he may have done a lot of great things but this business practice (posted or not) is wrong.
No, it is an opinion about a practice. Why are you always trying to pick scabs?
He said they should open the field. Just read what he wrote... it's super easy.
And they should open the field. If you're going to have a tournament, get as many people as possible. More players equals more prize money equals more $50 "non your fees" (another shady af business practice).
Honestly man, you just sound salty.
Not sure how you came up with your response after reading Bergman's post.
No where does he state players should be kicked out so he can enter.
You guys need to go back and reread what he wrote because you obviously missed it the first time. He said " it would be nice to give the players wanting to earn points a spot." Obviously the only way to give him a spot when the field is already full is to remove someone else. What he is asking for here is clear.
He did have a separate, alternate request and suggestion, which was "or maybe open up the field". I don't have any problem with this alternate suggestion which is why I didn't address it. I do however see a problem with his expectation and thinking it is ok that someone should be kicked out of the event so he that can have their spot, or even to be put ahead of anyone on the waiting list, and so I responded to that part of what he said.
I don't care what you think.
It's not about the no refund. That's not the point. If he doesn't want to refund the money, fine. But don't resell that spot and get twice the money for one spot. That's the point. If you don't want to have byes, then refund money if you fill that spot. One or the other. At the very least offer a credit to play in the future... but just collecting two entries for one is just shady.
Being transparent about a shady business practice doesn't make it ok.