Two cues with different amounts of deflection, same aiming system
- Thread starter ChrisBanks
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Holy cow!!!!
That's interesting!
ChrisBanks
Banned
I'm trying to bring some cheer to the Aiming Forum. Everyone knows that the people in the Aiming Forum have the least amount of fun here on AZ.
Some people are wound tighter than a drum!
Gotta love it. Succinct, comprehensive, well thought out statement. Not to mention, hilarious.
All aiming methods including Ghost Ball are for the no friction, perfect world centerball shot line. So you can use any cue you like and get there.
Now, once there you can adjust as you feel neccesary based on how you feel, the cloth speed, ball conditions, cue deflection, whatever.
For me personally I can play with a low deflection shaft and switch to a normal shaft and I still use the same way to aim and the same way to apply spin, back hand english. I probably adjust subconsciously a tiny fraction between the shafts but I honestly do not feel it at all.
Feel in Aiming
Chris,
Welcome to the area of the game called "feel." Im no aiming system guru but I'm an aiming method guy. There is a difference. Perhaps you expect too much from your aiming system. It just cant calculate squirt, curve and deflection as long as you.....play....that is something you have to do. No two cues play exactly alike some are close but it is what it is and you learn to cope with different deflecting allowances with each one. First you have to see the shot with Center Ball then you learn to make the allowance for your cue for English, thats just the way things work.
This is why Ive never been an aiming system person. Because I feel the protocol in an aiming system disconnects the player from being able to see the shot is on therefore they havent a clue on how to make an allowance for their cue.
I dont mean to start a flare up of aiming wars but what you posted is a great reason why there are differences between the cters and the naysayers in my humble opinion.
Good Luck finding your answer and your game, it can be an elusive search.
Just another lovely day in paradise.....
336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
Chris,
Welcome to the area of the game called "feel." Im no aiming system guru but I'm an aiming method guy. There is a difference. Perhaps you expect too much from your aiming system. It just cant calculate squirt, curve and deflection as long as you.....play....that is something you have to do. No two cues play exactly alike some are close but it is what it is and you learn to cope with different deflecting allowances with each one. First you have to see the shot with Center Ball then you learn to make the allowance for your cue for English, thats just the way things work.
This is why Ive never been an aiming system person. Because I feel the protocol in an aiming system disconnects the player from being able to see the shot is on therefore they havent a clue on how to make an allowance for their cue.
I dont mean to start a flare up of aiming wars but what you posted is a great reason why there are differences between the cters and the naysayers in my humble opinion.
Good Luck finding your answer and your game, it can be an elusive search.
Just another lovely day in paradise.....
336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
As an aiming system guy I can tell you without a doubt that after some practice you just see and know that the shots you are down on are ON.
Once in while you will come up on a shot that you have never shot before or which is tricky. This is where a system really shines because you can have a better than 50% chance to make the shot. I have made so many great shots like this over the past decade that I couldn't possibly count them.
It's really not that complicated. Learn to aim then apply spin. If the shooter has half a brain then you figure out within an hour what the cue is doing and will know what to do. If you can't get used to the cue then change cues.
Curious
JB,
I will admit for the very reason quoted above in your post I am curious about aiming systems but get lost in the several explanations of them so I just dont go there because I already see the how the shot is supposed to be hit.
For the record I am really glad that they work. It keeps people playing pool and as per your post it seems you understand what you are supposed to do in order to play English within your system method. Thats about all you need to be able to do with any of it up to a certain level and I fully agree with what you are saying.
As a purist who is dedicated to my methods I will say that what Im doing is really easy for me and tells me everything I need to know about the shot Im getting ready to attempt or decide not and shoot safe. Im sure some of you aiming system guys still miss a few or decide to go safe as well.
I believe there is a huge place in the middle between Naturally understanding what to do and understanding what to do based on aiming systems where the both can meet and assist each other but I have not a lot of time to devote to learning cte to find it, Im trying to get my mess together to retire in 23 months. Perhaps then I will take the time to learn it, right now Im working on my game. Stevie Moore is said to use cte and was a natural player before that so I think the evidence is there. My only concern is that where you guys have a pivoting protocol you do and I tend to do my alignments while standing Im concerned I might feel out of kilter...Ive a friend who has tried to explain this to me and done a really bad job and I just shake my head and say enough cause my head starts spinning and I feel like Im falling off the world and want my feet back on solid ground. I dont have any problem with it, its just different and my only hope is you guys understand how to play English with it because to be a great player you have to spin the ball.
Just another lovely day in paradise.....
336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
JB,
I will admit for the very reason quoted above in your post I am curious about aiming systems but get lost in the several explanations of them so I just dont go there because I already see the how the shot is supposed to be hit.
For the record I am really glad that they work. It keeps people playing pool and as per your post it seems you understand what you are supposed to do in order to play English within your system method. Thats about all you need to be able to do with any of it up to a certain level and I fully agree with what you are saying.
As a purist who is dedicated to my methods I will say that what Im doing is really easy for me and tells me everything I need to know about the shot Im getting ready to attempt or decide not and shoot safe. Im sure some of you aiming system guys still miss a few or decide to go safe as well.
I believe there is a huge place in the middle between Naturally understanding what to do and understanding what to do based on aiming systems where the both can meet and assist each other but I have not a lot of time to devote to learning cte to find it, Im trying to get my mess together to retire in 23 months. Perhaps then I will take the time to learn it, right now Im working on my game. Stevie Moore is said to use cte and was a natural player before that so I think the evidence is there. My only concern is that where you guys have a pivoting protocol you do and I tend to do my alignments while standing Im concerned I might feel out of kilter...Ive a friend who has tried to explain this to me and done a really bad job and I just shake my head and say enough cause my head starts spinning and I feel like Im falling off the world and want my feet back on solid ground. I dont have any problem with it, its just different and my only hope is you guys understand how to play English with it because to be a great player you have to spin the ball.
Just another lovely day in paradise.....
336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
Looking at all this practically it simply comes down to whether the shooter can run out or not. I mean no matter where you are as a player when you adopt a new method you can only be in one of three states afterward, the same, worse, or better.
I and other aiming system folks have said that the proof is on the table hundreds of times. We have repeatedly said show me the shots that supposedly can't be made using an aiming system, CTE in particular, and we will put those shots on video. Which we have done. I don't know how many videos I have done on this subject but I show CTE with BHE and through them all half the time I am using a different cue. Sometimes I grab the cue with the Fury Extreme2 LD shaft sometimes the normal shaft, sometimes my Jensen, sometimes a graphite cue. Normally I don't pay one tiny bit of attention to the cue I use when I do the videos other than to make sure that the tip is good.
The whole attitude has been "take it to the table" and prove/disprove assertions. I have yet to be presented with a shot that I can't make and get proper position using CTE. (shots that are physically possible that is)
Outside of proposition shots that require a particular way to aim them CTE works for playing high level pool in my opinion. Are there people out there who play incredibly well without using any sort of system? Absolutely. Again it's balls and a stick, man....to paraphrase Vincent Lauria.... anyone can figure out what happens when you hit the cue ball a certain way if they have the desire and time to do that.
But I have played in a lot of places around the world and seen a lot of "natural" players who line up decently and are good shot makers. But almost to a man they have shortcoming in their understanding of the game that handicaps them. Little tricky ways to get shape or not a full understanding of when and how to cinch a ball. In almost all of these situations where I have gambled with these great natural shooters I come out on top because I have more knowledge about what to do and when.
But sometimes I don't. Sometimes they just flat out shoot their way out of bad situations and I start to dog it. This the middle ground I think that system users need to get to - which is doing it enough that it becomes a natural rhythm without conscious thought. And sometimes that does happen.
JB,
I agree this is an extremely difficult gear in which to hit for Natural Method players. There are people out there who understand what they do and how they do it but ask one of them how to aim.....there isnt any telling what kind of explanation you are going to get...if you get one you can use you are extremely lucky. I know how I look at shots and can tell someone how to go about learning the shots in a way where it continues to get progressively better all of the time to the point of where it becomes automatic. It does feel good to be at a place in my game where I know the shots by sight but I remember well how frustrating it was not to see or understand them. I can imagine that a lot of people have quit playing because they just didnt seem to get it. That seems such a shame that its so easy to be disconnected from a game where feel is king to being able to understand and manipulate it. As you said anything you can do to learn the shots and get out is good stuff and is all that matters. I will say this much when there is less to worry about your position getting is easier and all you have to know is how to make the shot. I am seeing the shot so well now I will probably not worry too much with learning cte at this point, but what I hear you say is encouraging. I like the fact that people can learn something that works for them. I would love to play someone who uses it so I can watch what they do.
Just another lovely day in paradise.....
336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
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Couldn't switch cues and make anything consistently......
Let's go to extreme and say you have a predator shaft and a regular maple shaft.
Most of the time if a player would look where the cue was aimed it would be way off the target. But your brain has learned how to compensate for the most part and most shots you just shoot.
Pick up the predator and it will seem like you can't make a ball because your still naturally compensating for the flex or squirt.
Nobody can switch back and forth and be consistent with any aiming system or even just their aiming in general.
No matter what shaft you use you need to be used to the flex and squirt to be successful at all with anything.
Let's go to extreme and say you have a predator shaft and a regular maple shaft.
Most of the time if a player would look where the cue was aimed it would be way off the target. But your brain has learned how to compensate for the most part and most shots you just shoot.
Pick up the predator and it will seem like you can't make a ball because your still naturally compensating for the flex or squirt.
Nobody can switch back and forth and be consistent with any aiming system or even just their aiming in general.
No matter what shaft you use you need to be used to the flex and squirt to be successful at all with anything.
A good aiming systems is suppose to provide you with a foundation to build your reference lines so that eventually everything become second nature through repetition and process (goal is that you get better faster). Most aiming systems doesn't account for deflection..that something that you have to test with your own cues and fine tune once you able to find your center.
Essentially, aiming systems provide you will fewer selection to correctly find the correct line of aim. These references will also help you establish and confirm why you make or miss a shot. From there, if you want to apply spins for different position...you need to figure out how much you have to deviate from your reference lines. Thus shooting with any cue..you first need to test the amount of deflection you get with some of your reference shots. When I test my cues, I always setup the same shots and see how they differs from my main playing cues.
Good Luck.
Duc.
Essentially, aiming systems provide you will fewer selection to correctly find the correct line of aim. These references will also help you establish and confirm why you make or miss a shot. From there, if you want to apply spins for different position...you need to figure out how much you have to deviate from your reference lines. Thus shooting with any cue..you first need to test the amount of deflection you get with some of your reference shots. When I test my cues, I always setup the same shots and see how they differs from my main playing cues.
Good Luck.
Duc.