Two Foul 9-Ball

mr2_serious said:
Where can I find rules for 2 foul 9 ball? My googling skills are not coming up with anything. Thanks for any help
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I think you may not find them online. I don't remember seeing them anywhere online over the years. I had them written up and sent them to somebody on rsb a few years back. I'll look in my folders and see if I can find the rules for you, but as I did a reinstall of XP Pro recently, I may not find them. In an earlier post, someone mentioned that you got ball in hand when one player committed two fouls in a row. I've never played that way. We played that the incoming player got ball in hand after ANY two fouls. And for someone else's comment, there were MANY safeties played in push out nine ball.
 
cheesemouse said:
Jay,

This has me scratching my head. I'm not questioning your memory of the Ceasar's Tahoe event but I remember playing under the one foul BIH rules in 1980 in the Portland Ore area. Why am I so certain, because we were playing in an event with those rules on the day Mt. St Helens blew it's top. Hard to forget that day. Players like Dan louie, Rich Gieler were wondering if they could get back to the Seattle area as the ash fall was all ready happening right outside the door of the pool hall. I'm thinking Richie F may have incorporated these rules at this event but he didn't come up with them all on his own. It's no big deal but the date of that volcano is pretty firmly planted in my brain...
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You may be right, but I had never heard of these rules before the Caesar's Tahoe event. Richie told me he wanted to speed up the game for ESPN. This was the first major pool tournament ESPN covered.

I know that at the World Open tourney in Bend in 1976 we were still using the old rules.
 
Pushout said:
I think you may not find them online. I don't remember seeing them anywhere online over the years. I had them written up and sent them to somebody on rsb a few years back. I'll look in my folders and see if I can find the rules for you, but as I did a reinstall of XP Pro recently, I may not find them. In an earlier post, someone mentioned that you got ball in hand when one player committed two fouls in a row. I've never played that way. We played that the incoming player got ball in hand after ANY two fouls. And for someone else's comment, there were MANY safeties played in push out nine ball.
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There were two versions of push out. One was ball in hand after any second foul. The other was ball in hand after any two fouls by the same man. Most prefered the first version. The second version made for some very long sessions. When you pushed out to a a makeable shot position your opponant could repush away from that spot, thus putting him on his first foul, if he shot from there he would have to satisfy a good hit otherwise he would commit his second foul. In shootout you would see more runouts because the players could go for breakouts and not be afraid of winding up hooked or he could try for that position that would be difficult to obtain. If he got hooked he could always push out. These days with "texas express" rules many times you already have a safety planned so you play position for that instead of taking the chance of getting hooked and possably losing the game because of being too courageous.
I always preferred to push out to where there was no shot and only a safety and waited for a mistake there. If he pushed out and it was obivious he was going to play a safety, no matter how simple it was, I would always let him shoot it. Gives him one more chance to err. This made the difference in many matches. There definitely was more stratagy in shootout. I doubt anyone will find the rules for this anywhere. It was simple, two fouls and ball in hand.
 
jay helfert said:
The spot shot was our equivalent of the free throw in basketball. You shot it so often, it almost became a hanger.
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Good analogy, Jay. The spot shot still remains very important in one-pocket. Eddie Robin told me that if a guy could only make the spot shot 75% of the time, then he wasn't ready to play one-pocket. My personal best: 27 out of 30. I guess I'm ready to learn 1P...;)

Doc
 
jay helfert said:
I have to agree with Keith here. In the old days of "roll out" pool or "push out" as many now call it, the best player had a big edge. We spotted all balls and on a foul, you shot from behind the line. The incoming player could make the player who scratched shoot again (and he was on one foul).

Playing this way, the better player had a big advantage as there was much less luck involved. Keith can blame fellow West Coaster Richie Florence for the rule change. Richie came up with these new rules for the 1982 Caesar's Tahoe event to make it more marketable for television. I remember fighting Richie over the rule changes, but it definitely sped up the matches and forever changed pro 9-Ball.

Prior to this, a Race To Eleven would typically take two hours or more. Now it was shortened to an hour and a half or so. AFTER Richies innovative new rule change, the Texas Express Tour was started by John McChesney and he incorporated these new rules and called them the "Texas Express" rules. But give Richie credit where credit is due. It was "his" rules they used. Pretty soon, all 9-Ball tournaments were using these new "Texas Express" rules.

And Keith is right. The players had no need to be experts at kicking or jumping balls with the old rules. They just pushed out for a tough cut shot or a bank. The incoming player now had the dilemma whether to shoot or pass. It was at this same Tahoe event where the young Earl Strickland introduced the jump shot to Steve Mizerak and millions of television fans.

And Pool was changed forever!
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Hi Jay;

The main person, as I recall, behind 1 miss ball in hand, was Terry Stonier from the Jointed Cue in Sacramento. He may have worked with Richie, which wouldn't be surprising since he knew every player in the country and was responsible for Budweiser and others adding 10K to his various tounaments. He loved the game and the players. Seems like he started using it in the very late 70s, perhaps 79. Keith might recall, as you would, because he, you, and everyone that could hold a stick, played in Terry's tournaments. For years he was behind most of the high dollar tournaments on the West Coast. I believe he also frequented Johnson City.

Mike
 
Just called a friend with a better memory. Terry started using 1 miss bih in the early 70's in the small local tournament and it was incorporated into the larger tournaments in the mid 70's. Word is, Terry got it from other that were trying it out and he then promoted it. Who the others were, no one that I asked, is sure.

Mike
 
Deadon said:
Hi Jay;

The main person, as I recall, behind 1 miss ball in hand, was Terry Stonier from the Jointed Cue in Sacramento. He may have worked with Richie, which wouldn't be surprising since he knew every player in the country and was responsible for Budweiser and others adding 10K to his various tounaments. He loved the game and the players. Seems like he started using it in the very late 70s, perhaps 79. Keith might recall, as you would, because he, you, and everyone that could hold a stick, played in Terry's tournaments. For years he was behind most of the high dollar tournaments on the West Coast. I believe he also frequented Johnson City.

Mike
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You are right. Terry and Richie were quite close and Terry was at all of Richies big tournaments and vice versa. In fact Terry's resident T.D. worked the first Tahoe event with me. Larry ?. Please help me with his name. He passed away several years back and Terry followed afterwards.

Terry was the man in West Coast pool in the late 70's and 80's.
 
Deadon said:
Just called a friend with a better memory. Terry started using 1 miss bih in the early 70's in the small local tournament and it was incorporated into the larger tournaments in the mid 70's. Word is, Terry got it from other that were trying it out and he then promoted it. Who the others were, no one that I asked, is sure.

Mike
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One miss BIH? That's a little different than One foul BIH. Richie talked about doing that as well, but he never did.
 
That was Larry Smith probably, though there may be other Larrys that worked with Terry. Larry Smith died several years before Terry and at a young age. I am putting together some pix from all those tournament and hope to have them in some kind of album. At tribute to Terry and what he did for the game of pool. I have some great pix, I believe I may even have a couple of you. Lots of Richie, Ronnie and Keith. Most of the pix are from Terry's son, David, that now runs "The Joint". Nothing like that any more.

Mike
 
Note on S Jones using a shaft to jump. At some point he did drill the shaft and insert lead. He showed it to me.
 
jay helfert said:
Naughty boy.
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I think an older American pool player told me that at a Johnston City tournament (maybe) or at a Hustlers Jamboree tournament, some unnamed players placed pins inside certain rails on the pool tables when they were being set up for the event. :eek:

When the tournament was in progress, only these unnamed players knew EXACTLY where the hidden pins were, which made some their opponent's shots go haywire. :rolleyes:

I would be interested to know if a veteran American pool person could elaborate on whether this is an urban legend or if it is, in fact, what happened. :o

JAM
 
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