Uh oh. Berhman/ABP

PoolSharkAllen said:
Nobody is making these guys play in the US Open. If you don't think you're going to get paid in full, then don't go. It's can be as simple as that.

As far as debating the terms of professionalism, there's nothing professional about the ABP using a extortionist boycott to achieve their demands. :rolleyes:
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I think it goes beyond that.

The players are basically trying to renegotiate the contract in principle they have with this particular promoter. They believe they have the clout to bend him to their will, which, boils down to getting paid immediately after the tournament.

Not too much to ask.

If they continue to participate at the Open, and accept however BB decides to eventually dole out the monies they've won, it's business as usual unless something happens at the whim of BB. My wife put it nicely the other night over dinner, "They (the pros) have to do it (demand change) -- not for this year, but for the future. Otherwise nothing changes."

It's not too much different than a problem down at your local pool room. Sure, you don't have to go. But if you like the place, and the owner has been unresponsive to your request for change, and you feel you can organize with your fellow players to force a change for the better, does it not make sense to do so for your own sake and that of your fellow players?

Lou Figueroa
 
Scott Lee said:
justnum...Yep, and that 'shockwave' created a tsunami of bad press right back at them as a result. Bad move, if you ask me.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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What was most shocking was Barry legitimized what the players had to say be entering negotiations with him.

That is the biggest mistake Barry could have made. He has all the power, all he has to do is let the players do as they please, they want to play, then sign up and play. They don't want to play, don't sign up, its that simple.

What does Barry need them for anyway?

But Barry puts time aside to help convince a select group of players to play in his event, what a careless move. Players know what they are getting into when they play a Barry event and that is a high stakes payout. They don't want it, they want special treatment, he doesn't need them.

When someone asks for my services I don't ask them if they have special needs, I just show them the sign and what I have to offer. They don't see what they want, they can go elsewhere. Barry failed to remind the players of that simple fact.
 
justnum said:
What was most shocking was Barry legitimized what the players had to say be entering negotiations with him.

That is the biggest mistake Barry could have made. He has all the power, all he has to do is let the players do as they please, they want to play, then sign up and play. They don't want to play, don't sign up, its that simple.

What does Barry need them for anyway?

But Barry puts time aside to help convince a select group of players to play in his event, what a careless move. Players know what they are getting into when they play a Barry event and that is a high stakes payout. They don't want it, they want special treatment, he doesn't need them.

When someone asks for my services I don't ask them if they have special needs, I just show them the sign and what I have to offer. They don't see what they want, they can go elsewhere. Barry failed to remind the players of that simple fact.
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I think the truth of the matter is that they need each other, whether they like it or not. It is a classic symbiotic relationship and they really should learn to play in the sandbox together nicely. Personally, I think BB has, because he owns the sandbox, has been a bit unfair to the other kids in said sandbox.

The Open:
Folks travel great distances to watch the best.
People PPV to watch the best.
Sponsor and vendors show up because the best are going to be there.

The ABP boycott list has the best on it and they're sayin' they ain't goin' and if it's a half-baked field: nobody is going to go watch; and nobody is PPVing; and the sponsors and vendors are likely to bail.

It would be better if we all got along. Somehow.

Lou Figueroa
 
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justnum...You can't really be this misinformed. Barry didn't contact anybody. Players on the ABP list contacted HIM to tell him that they did not know of a proposed boycott, and that they wanted no part of it. That was posted here several times. Barry doesn't have to "convince" anybody. Like you said...show up and play...or don't. It's as simple as that.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

justnum said:
But Barry puts time aside to help convince a select group of players to play in his event, what a careless move.
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Scott Lee said:
justnum...You can't really be this misinformed. Barry didn't contact anybody. Players on the ABP list contacted HIM to tell him that they did not know of a proposed boycott, and that they wanted no part of it. That was posted here several times. Barry doesn't have to "convince" anybody. Like you said...show up and play...or don't. It's as simple as that.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Instead of him just letting the phone ring, he answered it. He issued two press releases concerning the issue.

The only announcements Barry needs to make are the opening dates for his event and the location of them. Instead Barry issues multiple press releases concerning the state of his affairs, leaking information about upcoming surprises for this years event. Barry couldn't have been more careless in letting the secret out to the players that play this year with the surprises he had lined up.

Barry should have kept his ongoing deals private. And just let the players know what they missed out on after they missed out on his event.
 
Scott Lee said:
Brandon...Remember, the free entry is only for past champions. Only a select few on the ABP list can count themselves as past US Open Champions. :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Scott, I was stating that with the assumption people knew that. Maybe I should have been more specific. However, there are a number of previous champions on the list (Reyes, Morris, Archer, SVB, Alex, JJ, Appleton, Schmidt - to name a few without looking at the list)
 
Scott Lee said:
justnum...What makes you think they had a 'pow wow'? This is just BB stating that any past champion, who is a member of the ABP, who chooses to sit out when they COULD play, will no longer get a free entry in future events. It has nothing to do with any supposed pow wow...which I doubt happened (due to the personality conflicts of the two leading individuals).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Scott -- The BCA Expo has been going on this week. Did I read or hear somewhere that Barry was meeting with Shawn Putnam at the Expo? He wouldn't have met with Johnny Archer, who is currently in Asia for a tournament.
 
lfigueroa said:
It would be better if we all got along. Somehow.

Lou Figueroa
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This is the absolute bottom line. Trust me, I know. The company I work for is falling apart because people are not pulling on the same side of the rope. "United we stand, divided we fall" is the antidote to "Divide and Rule".

The reality is that most promoters are "betting on the come" as you say. Until that problem is addressed, nothing changes.

By the way, here's a tip to the ABP: your strike can only be effective IF, AND ONLY IF, the entity you're striking against has any damn money. Boycotting marginally viable events ensures their demise. It does nothing to create more or any viable events.

Let's all encourage them to hold hands, start singing kumbaya and start promoting the sport that we all love. Now THAT would be professional, don't you think.

Let's all agree to put more hind ends in seats and promote this game dammit!

Until then, consider this reqium:

RIP Galveston, Tony Annigoni's recent debacle of an event, that tourney that didn't pay out in AZ (I think it was AZ - the one where Mitch Ellerman got stiffed on the drawing from Ashley furniture), etc., etc, and on and on and on...
 
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jalapus logan...The Galveston tournament was the one with Ashley Furniture. The other tournament was in Phoenix, and was independent. Jay was the TD, and the promoter folded on the prize money. Mark Griffin stepped in and came up with a way to get the players paid, by buying back the pool tables that he had sold the promoter before. I think there is still money owed on that tournament. Galveston got paid...they just reduced the prize money after the tournament had started...a big no no! LOL Oh wait :rolleyes:...BB has done that in the US Open (see okinawarob's post in another thread)! Tony Annagoni is another matter altogether.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

jalapus logan said:
Until then, consider this requium:

RIP Galveston, Tony Annigoni's recent debacle of an event, that tourney that didn't pay out in AZ (I think it was AZ - the one where Mitch Ellerman got stiffed on the drawing from Ashley furniture), etc., etc, and on and on and on...
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Scott Lee said:
jalapus logan...The Galveston tournament was the one with Ashley Furniture. The other tournament was in Phoenix, and was independent. Jay was the TD, and the promoter folded on the prize money. Mark Griffin stepped in and came up with a way to get the players paid, by buying back the pool tables that he had sold the promoter before. I think there is still money owed on that tournament. Galveston got paid...they just reduced the prize money after the tournament had started...a big no no! LOL Oh wait :rolleyes:...BB has done that in the US Open (see okinawarob's post in another thread)! Tony Annagoni is another matter altogether.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Yeah, I hear you and agree with you. It's a cotton-pickin' shame that so many events fail to thrive. Keep trying the same ol' stuff and just gettin' the same ol' results. It's a tiring treadmill if you ask me.

You spend your career teaching and promoting pool. Kudos to you. I wish more folks of your ilk exist. Riddle me this, how many of your students fail to have a good time playing the game? Not many I would think. I have parties all the time with non-pool players. My pool tables (yes, I have two, I have an addiction, yeah, yeah, yeah) are always a hit! People love the game, even those who have never held a cue!

That alone tells me that this activity we all appreciate has promise and is scalable to the masses.

Cheers...
 
:thumbup: You got that right! LOL Fortunately, there are around 10,000,000 poolplayers here in the USA (people who shoot monthly or better), and 40% of those are hardcores like us (play weekly or daily). If we can somehow break into that group of four million hardcores, and reach even 10% of them, with a $1 donation you'd have $400K, which could fund an entire tour for the pros (8 events @ $50K added each event).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

jalapus logan said:
Yeah, I hear you and agree with you. It's a cotton-pickin' shame that so many events fail to thrive. Keep trying the same ol' stuff and just gettin' the same ol' results. It's a tiring treadmill if you ask me.

You spend your career teaching and promoting pool. Kudos to you. I wish more folks of your ilk exist. Riddle me this, how many of your students fail to have a good time playing the game? Not many I would think. I have parties all the time with non-pool players. My pool tables (yes, I have two, I have an addiction, yeah, yeah, yeah) are always a hit! People love the game, even those who have never held a cue!

That alone tells me that this activity we all appreciate has promise and is scalable to the masses.

Cheers...
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Scott Lee said:
:thumbup: You got that right! LOL Fortunately, there are around 10,000,000 poolplayers here in the USA (people who shoot monthly or better), and 40% of those are hardcores like us (play weekly or daily). If we can somehow break into that group of four million hardcores, and reach even 10% of them, with a $1 donation you'd have $400K, which could fund an entire tour for the pros (8 events @ $50K added each event).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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You know, that idea has some merit as well. I think that if the leagues did something like this, it could work. Especially if the leagues provided a roadmap to becoming a pro. SVB came out of a league system. Others can as well. For that clear path to exist, I'd gladly pay my dollar a week.
 
Lastly, I think it would behoove folks to remember that when given lemons, make lemonade:

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Blackjack said:
That's about as crystal clear as he could put it.
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jason said:
He said...you're either with me or against me.

Let me make it simpler: ...
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Maybe I'm just being stupid, but I don't see it as this clear cut and dry. Barry has a reputation for getting extremely angry and blowing up over stuff like this. It's quite possible that he made a rash decision out of anger and told the players currently involved in the boycott that the free entries were revoked. After all, "participate in the boycott" doesnt necessarily mean to boycott at the event itself, but could mean the boycott process leading up to that event.

Its unlikely, but plausible.

You guys are most likely right as that's the logical assumption, but I don't read it as being quite so definitive.
 
Scott Lee said:
:thumbup: You got that right! LOL Fortunately, there are around 10,000,000 poolplayers here in the USA (people who shoot monthly or better), and 40% of those are hardcores like us (play weekly or daily). If we can somehow break into that group of four million hardcores, and reach even 10% of them, with a $1 donation you'd have $400K, which could fund an entire tour for the pros (8 events @ $50K added each event).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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I like this idea! You could even expand on this and say for a certain amount of donation (maybe $100), you get an MVP card that would get you say 10% off on gate prices and maybe merchandise from participating sponsors and possibly streaming. just some thoughts......
 
johnny ancher,shawn putnum and the other boycotters ....PLEASE KEEP YOUR ASS AT HOME..because you'll definately do not appreciate nothing and if i was berry i would not allow your group in the building
 
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