Uh oh. Berhman/ABP

Well, I could be wrong but I have a feeling that the offer stated in Barry's release is off the table, so the ABP apparently missed their chance to take that deal. He said he made that offer and it was rejected. An offer, once made and refused, is void.

So if they are going to work out a deal, which I hope they do, I doubt it will be that one.
 
jalapus logan said:
You know, that idea has some merit as well. I think that if the leagues did something like this, it could work. Especially if the leagues provided a roadmap to becoming a pro. SVB came out of a league system. Others can as well. For that clear path to exist, I'd gladly pay my dollar a week.
Click to expand...

The idea that the leagues should fund a pro tour has been tossed around many times over the years. .25cts per league player per week would be enough to create a viable tour and get it on TV consistently.

But the sad fact is that the leagues cannot seem to understand the simple concept that with increased visibility comes increased participation. And if they owned the Professional Tour then they could dictate to the professionals how they should be partners in the ongoing promotion of pocket billiards as a sport.

The American billiard industry has all it needs with a currently broad enough base to support a professionally run professional tour. Each of the major leagues, BCA-PL, APA, and VNEA has established working offices that can be be expanded to allow for a few more full time employees to be tour coordinators.

Unfortunately there is a lack of cooperation and shortsightedness that prevails. Thus instead of banding together to grow pool for the common good of all leagues they elect to remain apart and allow pool to die. They are allowing other activities to chip away at pool's participation instead of promoting it.

If they would come together then threads like this would probably disappear.
 
lfigueroa said:
The ABP boycott list has the best on it and they're sayin' they ain't goin' and if it's a half-baked field

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

Based on players I have spoken to recently that list is so screwed up and rife with people who either had no knowledge of or a say in the decision to boycott that it is essentially meaningless.

The ABP should of had a release out five minutes after Barry's explaining their reasons for declining the offer. Not for the public but for the members of their group who are wondering just what the hell kind of mess they have fallen into the middle of. Its obvious whoever is making the decisions (no player I spoke with claimed to know exactly who that is) isn't informing the rank and file. There are some good guys being put in a bad spot by all of this.

The ABP should of called Barry's play and made him put up the Open against all payers leaving paid in full. Most of those on the list are going to play anyway and if they stick with the boycott threat the defections will wreck any credibility they have left by that point. By accepting the deal it is all brought to resolution one way or the other this year and they walk away battered but somewhat intact. Someone over there needs to read Sun Tzu.

Edit: I need to add that it is possible the ABP has a completely different story than Barry on the offer or one guy spoke for the rest without consultation or Barry took a non 100% yes answer as a 100% no when it wasnt the case. Its a damn mess.
 
Last edited:
lfigueroa said:
If they continue to participate at the Open, and accept however BB decides to eventually dole out the monies they've won, it's business as usual unless something happens at the whim of BB. My wife put it nicely the other night over dinner, "They (the pros) have to do it (demand change) -- not for this year, but for the future. Otherwise nothing changes."

It's not too much different than a problem down at your local pool room. Sure, you don't have to go. But if you like the place, and the owner has been unresponsive to your request for change, and you feel you can organize with your fellow players to force a change for the better, does it not make sense to do so for your own sake and that of your fellow players?

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...
Barry did state the following: "While I understand that I have been tardy with payments in the past it must be abundantly clear to everyone that things will be different from now on."

Barry did offer that the "Balance of monies to be available the week of the event and all players paid at the conclusion of their final match." This is a major concession to the ABP. IMO, the ABP should give Barry the benefit of the doubt and see if he fulfills his obligations this year before deciding upon further actions.

The ABP should immediately cancel their boycott as they are going to look impotent when players on their list start showing up at the US Open. Last year's champion, Darren Appleton, has already stated that he will be playing.
 
Last edited:
In addition to all of the expenses incurred to produce the U.S. Open 9-Ball Chapmpionship, does Barry have to pay any "sanctioning" fee in order for this to be a ranked event?

Just curious if this is an additional expense. I think I read somewhere that the amount added is what qualifies whether a tournament is WPA sanctioned or not, but I do not know if a sanctioning fee is still required today.

TIA!
 
JCIN said:
Based on players I have spoken to recently that list is so screwed up and rife with people who either had no knowledge of or a say in the decision to boycott that it is essentially meaningless.

The ABP should of had a release out five minutes after Barry's explaining their reasons for declining the offer. Not for the public but for the members of their group who are wondering just what the hell kind of mess they have fallen into the middle of. Its obvious whoever is making the decisions (no player I spoke with claimed to know exactly who that is) isn't informing the rank and file. There are some good guys being put in a bad spot by all of this.

The ABP should of called Barry's play and made him put up the Open against all payers leaving paid in full. Most of those on the list are going to play anyway and if they stick with the boycott threat the defections will wreck any credibility they have left by that point. By accepting the deal it is all brought to resolution one way or the other this year and they walk away battered but somewhat intact. Someone over there needs to read Sun Tzu.

Edit: I need to add that it is possible the ABP has a completely different story than Barry on the offer or one guy spoke for the rest without consultation or Barry took a non 100% yes answer as a 100% no when it wasnt the case. Its a damn mess.
Click to expand...

HEY JCIN, remember what you said a few days ago...

JCIN said:
This is going to be a mess.

Heard it here first.
Click to expand...

Ding Ding Ding...we have a winner.
 
Scott Lee said:
:thumbup: You got that right! LOL Fortunately, there are around 10,000,000 poolplayers here in the USA (people who shoot monthly or better), and 40% of those are hardcores like us (play weekly or daily). If we can somehow break into that group of four million hardcores, and reach even 10% of them, with a $1 donation you'd have $400K, which could fund an entire tour for the pros (8 events @ $50K added each event).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Scott, I hate to be argumentative and I'm usually not, but I've always been skeptical of stats like these.

Assuming 300 million people in the USA (counting chilluns too), that means that one out of every 75 people are hardcore players, playing weekly or daily. I gotta think that's wrong - way way wrong. The Chicago metro area probably has about 7.5 million people (that's light, but keep the math easy), so according to this formula Chicago and burbs should have about 100,000 hardcore players. I have to think that's wrong by at least a factor of 10 and that's being generous.

If Chicago had 100,000 hardcore players there would be a lot more pool rooms here than there are. For example, I have to travel 30 miles to get to a room where serious pool is played daily. And lest you think all this hardcore playing takes place in bars, the entire APA has 265,000 members nationwide. I don't know about other leagues but together they're probably smaller than the APA. And, anyway, I hesitate to consider a bar league player who plays two or three games of 8 ball per week as hardcore, i.e., somebody who might consider PPV'ing professional tournaments or who knows who Shane van Boening is.
 
Again, it's the same ol' "three sides to the story" saga.

Comes now Barry who issues a press release after the so-called "negotiation" conference with ABP legal counsel.

ABP remains mum at the time of this writing.

If and when the ABP issues a press release addressing Barry's latest press releasae, the winds will shift.

The entire thing should have been handled between both parties out of the public eye. What has happened to date has caused conjecture and speculation.

I want to see this tournament flourish, and I am now annoyed with how the ABP is dealing with an issue that they started in the first place.

If you're going to do something, do it right or don't do it at all.
 
renegadej said:
johnny ancher,shawn putnum and the other boycotters ....PLEASE KEEP YOUR ASS AT HOME..because you'll definately do not appreciate nothing and if i was berry i would not allow your group in the building
Click to expand...

And it's attitudes like that which has Pool in the position it is today!
 
JAM said:
The entire thing should have been handled between both parties out of the public eye.
Click to expand...

Agreed JAM. There have been a multitude of mistakes. Let's put an itemized list together.

• Barry should have paid as promised in prior events
• ABP should have spoken/negotiated with Barry prior to releasing the press release
• ABP should have had a singular position and a quality public speaker
• Barry shouldn't have promised a wheelbarrow full of money with armed guards and not delivered
• Barry should not have advertised what he could not deliver
• ABP should have informed its members prior to the press release
• ABP should have had the full support of all listed members
• ABP should have had communication doors open
• Barry should have had receipts of all payments to the players

What should they do from here?

• Find common ground where both parties can agree
• Put together a pros and cons list
• Reopen negations quickly and before travel will be impractical or impossible
• ABP contact every member and find out their stance of this issue


I'm sure there are a lot of things that could be added to this list.
 
Last edited:
jason said:
Agreed JAM. There have been a multitude of mistakes. Let's put an itemized list together.

• Barry should have paid as promised in prior events
• ABP should have spoken/negotiated with Barry prior to releasing the press release
• ABP should have had a singular position and a quality public speaker
• Barry shouldn't have promised a wheelbarrow full of money with armed guards and not delivered
• Barry should not have advertised what he could not deliver
• ABP should have informed its members prior to the press release
• ABP should have had the full support of all listed members
• ABP should have had communication doors open
• Barry should have had receipts of all payments to the players

What should they do from here?

• Find common ground where both parties can agree
•*Reopen negations quickly and before travel will be impractical or impossible
• ABP contact every member and find out their stance of this issue

I'm sure there are a lot of things that could be added to this list.
Click to expand...

Are you serious???? Run this like a business and act professionally???

Boy, you're asking a lot here.... I don't know... :p
 
justadub said:
Are you serious???? Run this like a business and act professionally???

Boy, you're asking a lot here.... I don't know... :p
Click to expand...

Whew...I lost my head there for a minute! Thanks for setting me straight! :thumbup:
 
I want to see this resolved and everyone play at the US Open, but yet again a large number of people are surely jumping to conclusions aren't they? Why would anyone take a so called 'Press Release' from Barry at face value? Go back and look at his track record, even just over the past few weeks. Therefore I am not prepared to take any so called 'Press Release' at face value, I want to hear the other side as well before I make any judgements. What I would say is that someone else needs to take over his communications to the Press. He lays out what they have done to make sure things went smoothly this year and again states clearly things have not been right in the past. That would have been a good place to stop in this particular 'press release'.

But then he just has to go on to try and make out that the ABP has little if any support from players and of his own sanctions. His statements of:

'many players on that list did not know'

'Since the players that are boycotting my event are attempting to do harm to the event, we have no choice but to rescind our policy of paying the entry fees of any past champions who are capable of playing and decide to participate in this boycott. This has been a gift, not a given, and will be taken away for the duration of the U.S. Open.'

In my Business Career I have been involved in negotiations with large Corporations and Unions, the most effective and succesful statements have always been those that simply state the facts. The least successful and most damaging are those that either only state or then go on to make unsubstantiated claims and lay out retalitory tactics.

It's like a kid who gets pissed at something and says it's my ball I'm taking it home you can't play with it anymore. You can only do that so many times eventually you have to stay home because nobody wants to play with you as they now have their own ball!
 
Rich93 said:
Scott, I hate to be argumentative and I'm usually not, but I've always been skeptical of stats like these.

Assuming 300 million people in the USA (counting chilluns too), that means that one out of every 75 people are hardcore players, playing weekly or daily. I gotta think that's wrong - way way wrong. The Chicago metro area probably has about 7.5 million people (that's light, but keep the math easy), so according to this formula Chicago and burbs should have about 100,000 hardcore players. I have to think that's wrong by at least a factor of 10 and that's being generous.

If Chicago had 100,000 hardcore players there would be a lot more pool rooms here than there are. For example, I have to travel 30 miles to get to a room where serious pool is played daily. And lest you think all this hardcore playing takes place in bars, the entire APA has 265,000 members nationwide. I don't know about other leagues but together they're probably smaller than the APA. And, anyway, I hesitate to consider a bar league player who plays two or three games of 8 ball per week as hardcore, i.e., somebody who might consider PPV'ing professional tournaments or who knows who Shane van Boening is.
Click to expand...

The high water mark for fantasy numbers has traditionally been 30,000,000 players nationwide. That number has been responsible for many a drained bank account as would-be entrepreneurs burn up their calculators chasing the only 1% dream. If I can only sell just 300,000 of my do-it-all-whatzit-widget then I will be rich!

Only they don't take into account that this number is extrapolated based on a sample survey and that to be counted as a pool player one has to answer that they have played pool at least once in the previous year. Considering that there is some overlap I would put the number of league players in the USA at no more than 400,000. Again considering the overlap I would put the number of hard-core tournament-action players, those being ones who would travel to enter an event at no more than 10,000 for the entire United States and that is being generous.

There is still quite a bit of room for growth in the USA. Unfortunately the billiard industry is fractured pretty much beyond repair. The only professionals in America who have a shot at making a good living are the trick shot artists who can charge a decent amount for their shows. But they have to be on the road quite a bit to do it. At least unlike the US Open and many other events they know that they will get paid on time for their performance.
 
jalapus logan said:
"My daughter and I truly believe that most of the world's best players will participate in our event. It simply makes no sense for them not to when I have explained to them that the monies will indeed be there and that they will get paid on time. Since the players that are boycotting my event are attempting to do harm to the event, we have no choice but to rescind our policy of paying the entry fees of any past champions who are capable of playing and decide to participate in this boycott. This has been a gift, not a given, and will be taken away for the duration of the U.S. Open."

Bummer. This is a race that has no winner...
Click to expand...

Do they really pay the entry fee or just not collect the entry fee from the player? Big difference.
 
duckie said:
Do they really pay the entry fee or just not collect the entry fee from the player? Big difference.
Click to expand...

The $500 entry fee that the U.S. Open champions don't have to pay is added money to the purse. If it isn't paid by a player as an entry fee, then Barry absorbs the cost.

Barry also offers *free* entry fees to some aged and legendary players who may not be able to afford the expenses to go to the U.S. Open.

Either way, the money is in the total purse, no matter who pays it. :cool:
 
Not right...

Sounds like Barry is planning to air barrel the players again!

It is a shame that a tournament representing itself as the "US Open" does not have a promoter with deep enough pockets to properly execute. I'm not talking about funding losses, I'm just talking about being substantial enough to cover cash flow timing.

This was the point of Matchroom's rebuttal to Barry's misrepresentation of how they paid their winners.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top