Uh oh. Berhman/ABP

[justnum]

He said...you're either with me or against me.

Let me make it simpler:

OPTION 1:
Past champion on the list & no show this year, NO FREE future entries.

OPTION 2:
Past champion on the list & shows this year, FREE future entries.

That is typical of an industry that doesn't harmoniously work together.

Everyone is trying to demonstrate who has more influence.

Just save the US Open and save the players and save Barry, if everyone can be saved from petty fighting and workout a resolution then people can think about something else.

But to grow the divide only worsens the existing fracture between players and promoters.

 

[Scott Lee]

justnum...What makes you think they had a 'pow wow'? This is just BB stating that any past champion, who is a member of the ABP, who chooses to sit out when they COULD play, will no longer get a free entry in future events. It has nothing to do with any supposed pow wow...which I doubt happened (due to the personality conflicts of the two leading individuals).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

This feels like it will be a long waiting period till the US Open events take place. A story like this is media madness. It is great the two groups finally had their first pow wow discussing their concerns.

 

[justnum]

It appears to be the right hardball stance to me. At its current pace, the ABP will dissolve in a year or two and then all of the players will go back to playing in the US Open. They won't grovel back because of the entitlement they will feel that should still be bestowed upon them, but some of them should be groveling.

Usually that is what Barry does when he talks about delaying payment, or not delivering what he promised.

 

[FranCrimi]

1) $50,000 to be escrowed 30 days prior to the event, as per our requests to allow enough time for invitations and travel arrangements.

2) Balance of monies to be available the week of the event and all players paid at the conclusion of their final match.


1.) $50,000 is the equivalent of 100 entry fees.

2.) 'Balance of monies ' is ambiguous at best, and does not address the issue of added money and how much. All players paid at the conclusion of their final match is a good thing, but again, it does not state what the distribution will be.

It looks like all he's really willing to guarantee is $50,000. The rest seems subjective.

Maybe I missed something. I hope so.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

This makes the ABP look really bad. If everything in the BB release is true, the leadership of the ABP is leading them into a suicide mission.

Based on the release, the ABP should take that as MORE than middle ground and accept the terms with the understanding the remainder will be worked out within the next quarter or two.

I have only one thing to say.......









EARL!!!!

New license plate for Earl:

6XUSOPN

 

[brandoncook26]

I think that is an excellent reply to the stance the ABP has taken. Basically, the show will go on with or without you. If you rescind the boycott and show up I will put up my stake in the open against the money not being there. If you do not rescind the boycott, anyone who doesn't show up no longer gets a free ride.

It is a very strong retort from Barry. He is basically telling the ABP that his money is worth more than their ability to play. I hope that the ABP can swallow their pride and all show up to the event. Barry putting up the rights to his event against having full payouts is a more than fair compromise. If he doesn't have the money, then next year the ABP can show how good they are at running the Open.

 

[david(tx)]

http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=8935

In short, I have offered them my life's work, and Shannon's future for collateral. I have no doubt that all prize monies will be available this year and all future years due to increased income from internet streaming rights, international television rights and sponsorships. We have made arrangements with Pat Fleming of Accu-Stats Video Productions and David Thomson of Medium Pool in order to air this year's event in more than 26 countries in Asia with 175,000,000 + viewers and we are negotiating at present to have the event shown in the United States, Europe, and Canada with more to come on board between now and the beginning of the event. While I understand that I have been tardy with payments in the past it must be abundantly clear to everyone that things will be different from now on. I would not be willing to give up my Championship as collateral if things were not different


I've not commented on any of this because none of this effects me , and i can still enjoy pool without any of these players and the U.S. Open 9 Ball tournament . Don't get me wrong , i watch some of the matches on Youtube , and this year might be able to have the extra money to buy some stream days.

The DCC and every other independent pro level event should look at what Behrman is now trying to do and copy , that is sell the broadcast rights to Asian television where pool is more popular and to help fund the prize pools and their own profits also.

I'd bet that if Behrman accomplishes these things he could fund his tournament upfront for a couple of years . With good fortune will come more demands , like how much profit is he making and the use of their likeness in selling the event and prize pool amounts.

 

[Fatboy]

"My daughter and I truly believe that most of the world's best players will participate in our event. It simply makes no sense for them not to when I have explained to them that the monies will indeed be there and that they will get paid on time. Since the players that are boycotting my event are attempting to do harm to the event, we have no choice but to rescind our policy of paying the entry fees of any past champions who are capable of playing and decide to participate in this boycott. This has been a gift, not a given, and will be taken away for the duration of the U.S. Open."

Bummer. This is a race that has no winner...

I dont know if that will help, I really hope for everyone's best interest it all works out.

I cant say anything because I dont have all the facts, So anything I could think of would be based on speculation and partial information therefore any hypothesis is just tabloid style reporting. Only Barry has all the truths and facts-nobody else, everyone else has bits and pieces of information. Some have more than others. Barry is the only person with all the facts. I would guess there is time to sort things out and have some sort of a event. nothing lasts forever, perhaps the US Open has to change to survive-thats only a guess.

best
Eric

 

[jason]

I dont know if that will help, I really hope for everyone's best interest it all works out.

I cant say anything because I dont have all the facts, So anything I could think of would be based on speculation and partial information therefore any hypothesis is just tabloid style reporting. Only Barry has all the truths and facts-nobody else, everyone else has bits and pieces of information. Some have more than others. Barry is the only person with all the facts. I would guess there is time to sort things out and have some sort of a event. nothing lasts forever, perhaps the US Open has to change to survive-thats only a guess.

best
Eric

Eric, I know you are tight with JA and I wouldn't ask your opinion on this matter, just the facts.

Do you know the current status about who hasn't been paid.

Barry is claiming everyone was paid. Is the ABP agreeing with this or are they still claiming non-payment? Or, is the non-payment just about the Masters?

Thanks in advance if you know.

 

[Blackjack]

IMO, the ABP Should have first tried to become recognized as the official representative of the players by the sanctioning body (WPA). Inclusive with that, would be a contract that says that the sanctioning body is responsible for ensuring that promoters post the money XX days prior to any sanctioned/points ranking events.

Without recognition by the sanctioning body, the players are pissing into the wind.

This should be between worked out between the sanctioning body and the promoter. It would solve a lot of problems.

IMO, their is nothing to gain from the boycott, and everything to lose. Barry has offered everything that he can offer at this time. What else do they want? FWIW(and I'm just guessing here) Barry Behrman can't grunt and $hit money on command. If I am wrong about that, then I apologize, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case. From where I am sitting, I don't see any of the players doing anything to help him out, either. Perhaps they want to kill this event, who knows? If they don't show up, the lose an opportunity, they lose points, and they lose a promoter with a 35+ year history of putting THEM first. There is nothing for them to win here.

:shrug:

 

[brandoncook26]

Eric, I know you are tight with JA and I wouldn't ask your opinion on this matter, just the facts.

Do you know the current status about who hasn't been paid.

Barry is claiming everyone was paid. Is the ABP agreeing with this or are they still claiming non-payment? Or, is the non-payment just about the Masters?

Thanks in advance if you know.

This is the biggest issue I took with the ABP. This was one of their main platforms on why they were choosing to boycott. When I asked who hasn't been payed, they posted that they were not able to give that information out. It is a very short sided stance to give a press release and make public statements if you're not willing to give facts to back it up.

I can't help but to believe Barry since he is the only one so far who is willing to give actual facts and a concrete statement without vague innuendo.

 

[Nostroke]

No, just negating the offer to past US Open champions that support and participate in the boycott. Barry just double-dog-dared them.

:nanner:

Paying those past champions way in was too big of an expense and will only get bigger and bigger. This is a good move by Barry which everyone should understand and i am not a big BB supporter.

Maybe he could change the policy to paying the past 3 champions way in and 1/2 entry on the rest. To me that would still be very generous.

 

[Derek]

1.) $50,000 is the equivalent of 100 entry fees.

2.) 'Balance of monies ' is ambiguous at best, and does not address the issue of added money and how much. All players paid at the conclusion of their final match is a good thing, but again, it does not state what the distribution will be.

It looks like all he's really willing to guarantee is $50,000. The rest seems subjective.

Maybe I missed something. I hope so.

What was the total payout for last year? What percentage does $50K cover of the total purse?

How many entries are paid for 30 days before the event? Obviously, Barry has a lot of other things he has to pay for in advance for the tournament to happen. I don't know the numbers breakdown but $50K might be a big deal to have in escrow 30 days before the event. Are there any other yearly tournaments out there that can escrow $50K in advance?

It is $50K guaranteed regardless of the number of entries. Could be a sweet little prize if the field doesn't fill up at 256.

 

[justnum]

It seemed like Barry is taking the boycott as an personal attack on himself and his daughter.

How else can the players tell Barry, that he needs to change, without him not listening. So they did a boycott, have a few months for Barry to prep and resolve the situation.

But Barry is sticking to his guns, not taking any advice. And on top of that he wants to divide a newly formed group. Another failed move on Barry's part was the players organization he talked about forming when the ABP first developed.

Barry has big dreams and big visions, but he isn't taking enough time to dedicate work to delivering those dreams or visions. The players confronted Barry, and forced him to deal with an immediate situation, the boycott.

Barry did not take the boycott seriously, otherwise he would talked about working with the ABP instead of hoping to pirate ABP players in the form of free entry for past US Open champions.

 

[justadub]

Barry take the boycott seriously, otherwise he would talked about, working with the ABP instead of hoping to pirate ABP players in the form of free entry for past US Open champions.

I'm not into all the particulars, so I can't make an educated judgement. But if I understand it correctly, The US Open is one of the few, if only major tournament to pay the entry fee for ALL past champions. And Barry has done this for some time now.

It is not a gimmick he invented to bust the union.

And he has every right to use that entry fee as a negotiating tool, just as the players have every right to threaten to not show up, as a group.

The free entry fee for past champions was a VERY generous program, one that Barry has every right to be proud of. That program shows he cares about the history of this sport, if nothing else.

 

[jason]

This is the biggest issue I took with the ABP. This was one of their main platforms on why they were choosing to boycott. When I asked who hasn't been payed, they posted that they were not able to give that information out. It is a very short sided stance to give a press release and make public statements if you're not willing to give facts to back it up.

I can't help but to believe Barry since he is the only one so far who is willing to give actual facts and a concrete statement without vague innuendo.

I think I read that the ABP stated Mika was still owed $10000 from the Masters. I could be wrong.

 

[david(tx)]

IMO, the ABP Should have first tried to become recognized as the official representative of the players by the sanctioning body (WPA). Inclusive with that, would be a contract that says that the sanctioning body is responsible for ensuring that promoters post the money XX days prior to any sanctioned/points ranking events.

Without recognition by the sanctioning body, the players are pissing into the wind.

This should be between worked out between the sanctioning body and the promoter. It would solve a lot of problems.

IMO, their is nothing to gain from the boycott, and everything to lose. Barry has offered everything that he can offer at this time. What else do they want? FWIW(and I'm just guessing here) Barry Behrman can't grunt and $hit money on command. If I am wrong about that, then I apologize, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case. From where I am sitting, I don't see any of the players doing anything to help him out, either. Perhaps they want to kill this event, who knows? If they don't show up, the lose an opportunity, they lose points, and they lose a promoter with a 35+ year history of putting THEM first. There is nothing for them to win here.

:shrug:

Does Behrman need a sanctioning body ? He is putting on an independent tournament , he is his own sanctioning body . The players are pissing into the wind because they have no leverage . Behrman and his daughter do all the leg work , and fund their tournament . The players show up or not. The players if they feel they have been wronged should on an individual basis boycott the event , they don't need an association , the fact that some are going against the association is proof.

The WPA is a self appointed group of Europeans that have tried to seize control of something that doesn't exist , world pool . You think that a person that labors and puts up their own money to fund a pool tournament is going to let a group that makes up a set of rules and tells you ball order in racking various games dictate to them ?


They made a big mistake putting out a statement telling Behrman their intentions , they should have just done it without the grandstanding , actions speak louder than words.

 

[Blackjack]

It seemed like Barry is taking the boycott as an personal attack on himself and his daughter.

How else can the players tell Barry, that he needs to change, without him not listening. So they did a boycott, have a few months for Barry to prep and resolve the situation.

But Barry is sticking to his guns, not taking any advice. And on top of that he wants to divide a newly formed group. Another failed move on Barry's part was the players organization he talked about forming when the ABP first developed.

Barry has big dreams and big visions, but he isn't taking enough time to dedicate work to delivering those dreams or visions. The players confronted Barry, and forced him to deal with an immediate situation, the boycott.

Barry did not take the boycott seriously, otherwise he would talked about working with the ABP instead of hoping to pirate ABP players in the form of free entry for past US Open champions.

So tell me, if the players boycott this event, what do you think will be different the day after the US Open?

 

[Nostroke]

It seemed like Barry is taking the boycott as an personal attack on himself and his daughter.

How else can the players tell Barry, that he needs to change, without him not listening. So they did a boycott, have a few months for Barry to prep and resolve the situation.

But Barry is sticking to his guns, not taking any advice. And on top of that he wants to divide a newly formed group. Another failed move on Barry's part was the players organization he talked about forming when the ABP first developed.

Barry has big dreams and big visions, but he isn't taking enough time to dedicate work to delivering those dreams or visions. The players confronted Barry, and forced him to deal with an immediate situation, the boycott.

Barry did not take the boycott seriously, otherwise he would talked about working with the ABP instead of hoping to pirate ABP players in the form of free entry for past US Open champions.

I think it is totally reasonable for Barry to rescind his gift offers (Entry for past champions) for those Players who are by boycotting i.e.-actively participating in an effort to destroy his tourny. Absolutely a reasonable reaction imho.

 

[justnum]

I'm not into all the particulars, so I can't make an educated judgement. But if I understand it correctly, The US Open is one of the few, if only major tournament to pay the entry fee for ALL past champions. And Barry has done this for some time now.

It is not a gimmick he invented to bust the union.

And he has every right to use that entry fee as a negotiating tool, just as the players have every right to threaten to not show up, as a group.

The free entry fee for past champions was a VERY generous program, one that Barry has every right to be proud of. That program shows he cares about the history of this sport, if nothing else.

Barry can attract players to his event however he wants. But in a negotiation process, don't try to divide a group whose sole purpose was formed to negotiate with one guy and that is Barry.

It is just Barry jumping to conclusions, his jump is straight to event day and forcing players to decide. Instead of using the time now to resolve a situation everyone can agree with. In a negotiation stubborn people withdraw after one discussion. (That is common on the forum as well people withdraw after making a point and not defending it. It works well when the point is a lie.)

And he didn't say anything about Mika's payment.