UK “women’s” final

Flakeandrun said:
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. But this isn't boxing, it's moving a stick backwards and forwards in a line. Until the male dominated marketing, branding and organization of events is detached, by funding equal opportunities at a grassroots level and providing a platform where societally fabricated gender is not attached to expected performance, then people will still argue the toss over why women don't move a stick in a straight line better than men.

As I said, this topic has been done to death here. Hope there is a fair resolution in the future, so that the vile, pointy hats stop sharpening their pitchforks... I mean, spilling Miller Lite on their keyboards
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Your side of this argument always just assumes that all of the things you've mentioned above just happen randomly, and aren't themselves tied to underlying gender differences. And you also just assume that pool isn't an athletic endeavor. It's certainly way more athletic than say -- putting a golf ball, but yet there's not a woman alive who could compete with the best in the world on a putting green.

A lot of people think they are standing up for women when they defend their athletic capabilities but they're usually doing the exact opposite.
 
BasementDweller said:
Your side of this argument always just assumes that all of the things you've mentioned above just happen randomly, and aren't themselves tied to underlying gender differences. And you also just assume that pool isn't an athletic endeavor. It's certainly way more athletic than say -- putting a golf ball, but yet there's not a woman alive who could compete with the best in the world on a putting green.

A lot of people think they are standing up for women when they defend their athletic capabilities but they're usually doing the exact opposite.
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It doesn't assume these things happen randomly, it acknowledges the complete lack of neutrality, equality and equity that exist, and the incredible effort it would take to actually align these things and put them into place, as well as the lack of desire to actually do that by a vast amount of people.
 
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garczar said:
Really no surprise that Bishop is the only one that agrees with you here. His lunatic posts in 'NPR' section speak volumes. You guys would make a great scotch doubles team.
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Ah yes, your previous comment was nonsense, so you resort to insults :ROFLMAO: Classic Garczar.
Anyway, I'm done with this thread now. Hope the issue can be resolved in the future in a way that promotes fun, freedom and enjoyment of the game, as well as a space for the game to grow. Hope such threads can be a space for open and fair discussion in the future. Like I mentioned, without discussion, we go nowhere. Without civility, effective discussion does not exist.
 
Flakeandrun said:
It doesn't assume these things happen randomly, it acknowledges the complete lack of neutrality, equality and equity that exist, and the incredible effort it would take to actually align these things and put them into place, as well as the lack of desire to actually do that by a vast amount of people.
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You're still obviously assuming that the world in which we live hasn't been molded by the men AND the women that live in it. If only we could fix society, then magically women would play pool in equal numbers to men. This seems to be your point of view. I think it's almost exactly the opposite. Women don't find pool as interesting as men do because -- wait for it -- they are women! When you boil it all down, it's a bizarrely trivial pursuit to bang balls into each other for hours on end. To be great, you have to have a personality that is extremely single minded, bordering on autisticly obsessive. Men are much more hardwired for such mundane tasks. They have this luxury as they haven't been hardwired over hundreds of thousands of years to constantly be weary of men and even focused on the protection of their young. I imagine that the act of spreading out on a pool table in front of a room full of people illicits more anxiety out of women than men. There's just only so much we can do to make the game comfortable for women to play it.

Men and women are different.
These differences should be celebrated not discounted.
Women's places should be protected.
Women's accomplishments need not be compared to men.
 
BasementDweller said:
Women don't find pool as interesting as men do because -- wait for it -- they are women!
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Biologically they find it less interesting? I am not sure that's how it works. Societally fabricated gender norms and values define what it is to be a man or a woman. What they should do, think, feel and ultimately what they personally feel is achievable. Biological Sex has nothing to do with desire to play a game.

You dragged me back in buddy 🎣 😂

BasementDweller said:
Men and women are different.
These differences should be celebrated not discounted.
Women's places should be protected.
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Absolutely agree with you
BasementDweller said:
Women's accomplishments need not be compared to men.
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In pool, they could be in the future if a context of equal opportunities can be achieved. In the current context, you are right.

Anyway, I'll leave you all to it now.
 
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Flakeandrun said:
... Biological Sex has nothing to do with desire to play a game.
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For someone that comes across as intelligently as you do -- I seriously can't believe you wrote this. I kind of thought the gender theorist types were dying out or at least sneaking back into the hedges, Homer Simpson style, and coming back out while pretending to have never espoused such things. :)

Do you also think women would fish in the same numbers as men if we bought them all a rod and reel and funded a billion dollar ad campaign?

We're different.
 
BasementDweller said:
Do you also think women would fish in the same numbers as men if we bought them all a rod and reel and funded a billion dollar ad campaign?
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Don't actually need any of that where I am from, as there's many females who like to fish as a hobby already, and probably a higher percentage working in the industry than most other places, but a healthy dose of advertising would likely see as many, as those who needed and organized the drive of the imposed concept, desired. I feel like the question that would adequately supplement what you put forward would be - does the world/region/those who control the relative market, feel that it is economically beneficial to encourage more? If the answer returns a 'yes', then you would promptly be led down the path of normalization of that concept.

BasementDweller said:
For someone that comes across as intelligently as you do -- I seriously can't believe you wrote this. I kind of thought the gender theorist types were dying out or at least sneaking back into the hedges, Homer Simpson style, and coming back out while pretending to have never espoused such things. :)
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You get points for making me laugh. Top referencing/word play.

...and stop it! I nearly clock off work, and I am trying to finish early so I can go and play that game we like haha
 
straightline said:
Ah but physique plays heavily as well as maybe machismo - taking the horse to the limits. Like driving maybe. Pool doesn't seem to require any physique that women can't attain. Couple more things at work, Even the super enthused woman has been restrained for millennia from achievement let alone excellence.
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if that were the case there wouldn't have been any world champions or olympic medalists that were women, but there have been. only there have been way more men winners. it's definitely not a sport characterized by machismo in most western countries, it's very female dominated in general.

physique, maybe a bit, but the main thing is of course the physique of the horse.
 
If we introduce pool to monkeys I am pretty sure the males monkeys would be more interested in it. It had already been done with other sports and activities, and it was clearly showing males monkeys were more interested in constructions and sports. But I really wish we never do that, If I ever see a monkey playing better pool than me, that will break my heart.
For pool, I do think women can do 99% of what men do. But that 1% is huge when we are rising to the top pros.
 
skogstokig said:
if that were the case there wouldn't have been any world champions or olympic medalists that were women, but there have been. only there have been way more men winners. it's definitely not a sport characterized by machismo in most western countries, it's very female dominated in general.

physique, maybe a bit, but the main thing is of course the physique of the horse.
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Machismo in the "on the edge" sense. I mentioned car racing but anything they do - gymnastics, figure skating, shotput lol... These ladies are a specially enabled bunch and not typical of the female jock pool. Of course I have no supporting data - manz here would ask lol but my opinion nonetheless.
The case still is the female group is second to the male group. THAT issue I believe is largely mental.
 
straightline said:
Lasterer word.

This shoulda been here. Found it in another thread. Here it is again.

:p
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It won't end because it just started.

We're awaiting the "investigation" since the organization said they will look into it. Unless there is a resolution this will continue. Or after the lawsuit.
 
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skogstokig said:
www.bbc.com

Transgender women banned from female pool category

The Ultimate Pool Group (UPG) ban transgender women from female category after landmark UK Supreme Court ruling that the legal definition of a woman is based on biological sex.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

no mas
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This is the way.

Not that it matters because these dudes are bum ass players for competing against lower level women. I'm sure the juniors such as Sofia and Savannah would cook them. '

It's just an embarrassment.
 
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