Unable to See Center Ball

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I always tend to put a little right spin on the ball when it looks like I am lining up to the center of the CB.

I've tried standing more square to the shot, more side on, putting the cue under each eye (I am left-eye dominant), as well as in between each eye.

Nothing seems to help.

One thing I hadn't considered trying was compensating and aiming slightly to the left anytime I want to play center ball, but wasn't sure if that's a good idea.

Thoughts? Experiences if you have similar issue?
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Lots of people have trouble finding the center of the ball. Often that can be fixed with a different stance which I think is mostly putting the head in a different position.

Some players line up on the base of the cue ball which makes it easier to find the center. You can also use a stripe or a training ball as your cue ball so you get feedback on both centering and spin.

This is sort of unconnected to aiming. You may want to try in the instructors' forum.
 

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I worked a lot of this with many students of mine.
Most success i had is working mirror shots, and make them keep tip almost touching ball when standing position. Then slowly going down to shooting stance while keeping tip still close. Then keep still moment before start practice strokes.
If view changes while u slowly go down, then fault is probably bridge hand is slightly off from aiming line and you unconsiously turn it little.. For most of people this is the reason. I have made exercises to fix it.
I could write a lot more but i believe u could try testing these and see if any help.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I always tend to put a little right spin on the ball when it looks like I am lining up to the center of the CB.
Geometry suggests that means your "vision center" is a little to the right of being centered over your stick (makes the stick look centered on the CB when it's actually a little to the right of center).

pj
chgo
 
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Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lots of people have trouble finding the center of the ball. Often that can be fixed with a different stance which I think is mostly putting the head in a different position.

Some players line up on the base of the cue ball which makes it easier to find the center. You can also use a stripe or a training ball as your cue ball so you get feedback on both centering and spin.

This is sort of unconnected to aiming. You may want to try in the instructors' forum.
I actually believe this is related pretty closely to aiming. Also important part of it. Visual tricks that ball do for us. ask instructor forums could be still also good place to ask. They could have tips to fix it because this comes up a lot if teaching more than beginners.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I always tend to put a little right spin on the ball when it looks like I am lining up to the center of the CB.

I've tried standing more square to the shot, more side on, putting the cue under each eye (I am left-eye dominant), as well as in between each eye.

Nothing seems to help.

One thing I hadn't considered trying was compensating and aiming slightly to the left anytime I want to play center ball, but wasn't sure if that's a good idea.

Thoughts? Experiences if you have similar issue?
I had this problem my entire pool playing "career." I found this and now I don't have the problem anymore. My stop shots look like I freeze framed the cue ball at contact because I now know where the center of the ball is. That isn't enough, though. You also have to be sure you are stroking the cue straight back and forward on that line. The laser solves both issues. Give it a look:

 

Imac007

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I always tend to put a little right spin on the ball when it looks like I am lining up to the center of the CB.

I've tried standing more square to the shot, more side on, putting the cue under each eye (I am left-eye dominant), as well as in between each eye.

Nothing seems to help.

One thing I hadn't considered trying was compensating and aiming slightly to the left anytime I want to play center ball, but wasn't sure if that's a good idea.

Thoughts? Experiences if you have similar issue?
I am also left eye dominant eye and right handed.
It finally dawned on me that the only time I am visually centered on the cue is when I can see equal amounts of both sides of the shaft.
The line on the bed extended up over the rail exposes the misalignment the same.
The Riley cue company make an extension you can buy that fits at the joint if you can find the right pin.
898AAEE0-04DF-4BDB-918F-A076D5D62415.jpeg

There is also a homemade alignment tool you can make.
Take a matchbook cover and cut it at the seam so you have small rectangle.
Wrap the cover around the cue and align the edges.
Staple or glue the wrapped tube so the cover makes a 90° vertical.
When viewed directly down the covers edge you just see the edge.
If your eyes are aligned left of center you see the left side of the cover.
Vice versa with the right side.

Knowing this was the first step.
I was only able to get my stance to align when I adopted a square stance.
The difference that made a difference was to vary my hip plane to hinge along that line letting my eyes find the right plane.
Moving the left foot slightly forward or simply pushing the left knee forward from square rotates the hip plane fold to the right.
The rotation of the hip plane also straightens the back leg and clears my right side hip.
That is how i found that sweet spot for positioning my upper body so my visuals align.
The cue arm needs to hang from the shoulder which is over the cue on line.
That points the grip hand, holding the cue, down the elbow hinge line, with a vertical thumb.
 
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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I had this problem my entire pool playing "career." I found this and now I don't have the problem anymore. My stop shots look like I freeze framed the cue ball at contact because I now know where the center of the ball is. That isn't enough, though. You also have to be sure you are stroking the cue straight back and forward on that line. The laser solves both issues. Give it a look:

Practicing under a laser is different from shooting in game situations. Did you find that the centering you learned under the laser transferred to actual play? Have you been able to measure your centering in actual play or get some other clear indication of the transfer?
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Practicing under a laser is different from shooting in game situations. Did you find that the centering you learned under the laser transferred to actual play? Have you been able to measure your centering in actual play or get some other clear indication of the transfer?
Are you suggesting that the game situation pressure causes a reversal back to some other alignment? What I found is that the laser trained me to know what a straight stroke and alignment looks and feels like. Of course there are other factors such as wrist curl or tension that can ruin a good delivery during a game, but I don't think the learned perception of what the center line looks like goes away just like that. I used to shoot with my inner left eye over the ball and that felt natural. Now I shoot with my inner right eye over the ball and now that feels right. I wouldn't want to hit a ball with my left eye over it now. I'm no expert but I think you can train your brain to line up however you want and eventually it will feel right and where you will end up while under pressure. I think visual perception is different from other things like elbow drop or wrist curl or other components that you try to fix in practice and hope will hold up under pressure.

But, to try and answer the question, yes I find that it transfers to game play. A solid center line hit provides a different feedback through the cue. The cue ball rolls more true and draw shots draw straight back. This was one of my long term issues that I now have a much better handle on. I can draw straight back through traffic with more confidence.

It takes a straight alignment AND a straight stroke to get it right and the laser won't tell you HOW to stroke straight. It will only tell you when you are doing so. I think the laser is like any other method to help straighten out alignment. IMO, having a laser line right on the cue handle, cue shaft, the cb and the ob is as good as you can get. Pick a head position that allows you to stroke straight and stick with it.

What are your thoughts?
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
...

What are your thoughts?
I have seen other drills/training where the action did not involve pocketing balls and the improvement didn't transfer well. Lots of students who have developed bad habits have this issue. They may be able to shoot the cue ball over the spots well, but when they have to put a ball in the pocket, they revert to their "normal" problems.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have seen other drills/training where the action did not involve pocketing balls and the improvement didn't transfer well. Lots of students who have developed bad habits have this issue. They may be able to shoot the cue ball over the spots well, but when they have to put a ball in the pocket, they revert to their "normal" problems.
I agree that pocketing balls, or at least involving an object ball, is important. In my drills I put the cb on the foot spot and ob on the center spot. I try to shoot the ob up table and back to make contact with the cb again. So each trial involves contacting a cb and ob.

I am more focused on what it looks and feels like to shoot along the laser line. If I can execute the shot with the cb and ob that is feedback that I'm probably doing it right.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
I shoot Pool left handed, am right eye dominant. Lucky as normal, and distance vision is great. Do use reader for reading small print.

Think some of training balls are easy to locate center on, would assume if you work with one. Transition to normal ball & center finding might be easier.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
I always tend to put a little right spin on the ball when it looks like I am lining up to the center of the CB.

I've tried standing more square to the shot, more side on, putting the cue under each eye (I am left-eye dominant), as well as in between each eye.

Nothing seems to help.

One thing I hadn't considered trying was compensating and aiming slightly to the left anytime I want to play center ball, but wasn't sure if that's a good idea.

Thoughts? Experiences if you have similar issue?
It's not just head rotation on the neck, but being consistent with the height of your head above the cue, because vertical movement tends to create lateral movement for the head. Be consistent, use a mirror to check head position, eye position and head height.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
People as they age loose range of motion, so what could be text book line up could be painful.

Prople sometimes need improvising, adaptions,to accomplish what was text book when young.
 

Imac007

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've tried standing more square to the shot, more side on, putting the cue under each eye (I am left-eye dominant), as well as in between each eye.
Reality check.
It doesn’t matter where you stand, the center of the ball is located on the line between the apex and the ball base contact point.
You can walk around the ball and that core vertical always dissects the ball.
Adding a cue doesn’t change that.
The connectiing of two points is all that is needed to create a line.
Placing the cue so that the shaft to tip line points through that vertical center, is an example.
At issue here is whether the cue lies on the perspective line from the player to the ball center.
Standing facing the ball with your cue pointed at the center opposite your right side, more of the left side of the cue is visible than the right, regardless of eye dominance.
It’s a matter of where you are standing relative to the line.
Moving your head laterally to the right, the perspective changes as more of the right side of the cue becomes visible.
At one point the rounded sides of the shaft are equally visible and if you continue to move your head to the right, the amount of the right side is more visible as the left side is less visible.
The equally visible perspective is your benchmark for alignment directly down the cue line.
Holding that perspective between the cue and the eyes check to make sure the cue is still pointed at the core center.
If it is pointed to the right side of center your diagnosis was correct.

If not, then the cue delivery is the problem.
A slight curling of the back grip fingers through impact will move the butt ever so slightly to the left shifting the cue line to the right.
A simple test is to shoot a ball, corner to corner diagonally, and check if the cue ends up pointed in the pocket.

Once your eyes are aligned down the shaft, the next steps are to have the.elbow hinge hanging from the shoulder on the vertical plane through the ball center.
A vertical thumb and triggered forefinger throughout the stroke hold the cue on the hinge plane throughout.
 
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JoeyInCali

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
No way around it . Deal with it and perfect the stance and stroke . Hole reinforcers and yard stick are your friends .
 

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