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Unforseen benefit of TOI
- Thread starter whitewolf
- Start date
I just suggest that instead of blocking out new information, you store it
Yes, I know you understand, this isn't complicated, however, it is different than what is "conventionally taught" so it confuses some players. It's natural, when sports and games evolve this process must take place, how could it not, if the information had always been there the change would not need to take place.
I just suggest that instead of blocking out new information in the world you at least "try in on for size," who knows it may fit one day. For the time being I would advise "doubters" to put it on a shelf and save it for future reference.
Just remember, the ones that teach the orthodox and conventional methods are the ones the road players would hunt down to gamble with and they had no chance.
This is no coincidence, the techniques I'm teaching is almost "cheating," but in an honest manner. Having knowledge is an edge, but not cheating. I have to keep telling myself that because when I was gambling TOI felt like I had an unfair advantage.
Yes, I know you understand, this isn't complicated, however, it is different than what is "conventionally taught" so it confuses some players. It's natural, when sports and games evolve this process must take place, how could it not, if the information had always been there the change would not need to take place.
I just suggest that instead of blocking out new information in the world you at least "try in on for size," who knows it may fit one day. For the time being I would advise "doubters" to put it on a shelf and save it for future reference.
Just remember, the ones that teach the orthodox and conventional methods are the ones the road players would hunt down to gamble with and they had no chance.
This is no coincidence, the techniques I'm teaching is almost "cheating," but in an honest manner. Having knowledge is an edge, but not cheating. I have to keep telling myself that because when I was gambling TOI felt like I had an unfair advantage.
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Players have developed an aiming system where they initially aim center ball and then, based on the pivot point of their cue/shaft, move their back hand to a postion where they're applying the proper english. Why would you start with TOI and add that variable when centerball works as a starting point? Also, with different tip sizes, how far off center is a TOI? Does it vary with different tip sizes?
Mr. Ed,
Some people believe in KISS. Some people want to know all that they can & play at a technically higher level.
If you're happy with playing the way you play, all good & well for you.
Regards,
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If you don't need to know the answers and you're getting compensated, tell me where to sign up. I'll even preach TOO where at least I'll eliminate the throw effect if I'm off a little bit.
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Sorry, but I don't understand that chopped up non sentence. Can you please rephrase it?
I still don't understand why a player would do this all or the majority of the time. I do understand the merits of the shot; it helps to make the ball. But why not apply this focus and concentration on hitting an exact tiny point on the cue ball to all of your shots and play all different types of English? Many times when cutting the ball in a touch of low outside is ideal to come back off the rail to the middle of the table. I feel like this whole TOI thing is a mind trick(a good one) to get you to focus more intently on where you are hitting the cue ball. Please tell me how Alex Pagulayan could have won his one pocket match against Scott Frost while hitting a touch of inside english(top or bottom or center) on every shot. It just doesn't make sense. Certain circumstances require different shots period. If TOI was described as being for a certain set of shots only I could go for it, but at certain times inside of English of ANY kind would be a bad idea.
Edit: The bottom line is if you can perform consistently hitting TOI then why can't you perform consistently using other types or English which may be more beneficial to the shape you want.
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Beleve me, I have been playing for 46 years very much like the way you describe. I sarted using english within 2 weeks of touching a cue stick for the first time when I was 13 years old. If I had known about this method before I met the young woman that became my wife, I might have gone pro back then.
Neither I nor CJ nor anyone else is saying that one would never have to use outside english to get shape from off of a rail. After my eye went bad nearly 20 years ago I wanted to get as close to the next shot as possible. With TOI, even with my bad eye, it does not matter because every shot is easier to make. For that reason the positon is not as crucial.
Getting the shape I think I want with TOI has not been as easy as with spin but it is getting better all of the time. I am seeing different ways to get position that I would never have looked at before.
I don't know what else to say, except like CJ says, if it's not for you, put it on the top shelf of your closet, you may want to pull it out one day in the future.
Regards,
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You caught me in a 'mis-speak'. I should never have used the word 'never'. I should have said in ways that I would not normally use.
Have I said that you are starting to 'look' familiar.:wink:
Why would i strive for this though? Isn't my ultimate goal to play like the best players in the world? They use the correct English, speed, angle for every shot. Why should I pigeon hole myself into a certain way of shooting every shot when that is clearly not necessary or in fact the right way? Does Efren use the TOI method? **** no. Does Alex Pagulayan, Dennis Orcullo, Earl Stricklsnd? No. Because it doesn't make any sense. Do what is necessary for the shot and a touch of inside is just as necessary as any other shot. Therefore work on all of the possible ways to make a ball. Am I just missing something here? By the way who the **** is Cj Wiley? What has he done and where is he in the world of pool? Weird that I hadn't heard of him till I joined this forum. Why should I give a shit about his "method"(way to earn extra income) when he clearly is a subpar player?
Aren't you just a daisy?
Aren't you just a daisy? :thumbup: have you ever heard of using Google?:thud:
Aren't you just a daisy? :thumbup: have you ever heard of using Google?:thud:
How about you give me a situation & I'll give you my answers before TOI & after TOI.
If you're going to set a trap, you might as well bait it too.
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I'm the guy that suggested the next TAR match be between Shane and CJ. Since the late 80s, I've always known that CJ was the best "unknown" player in the U.S. He soon became internationally famous, which anyone who follows our sport knows.
This TOI doesn't make a lick of sense. Say I need a tip of high outside english to get proper position. I know this by hitting the shot hundreds of times in the past. Why would I aim with a TOI and then swipe the cue tip across the ball and strike it with high outside? Accustats put out an instructional video where Buddy Hall described his cueing on a series of shots. Buddy strikes the CB where he aims.
Where's Bob Jewett?
This TOI doesn't make a lick of sense. Say I need a tip of high outside english to get proper position. I know this by hitting the shot hundreds of times in the past. Why would I aim with a TOI and then swipe the cue tip across the ball and strike it with high outside? Accustats put out an instructional video where Buddy Hall described his cueing on a series of shots. Buddy strikes the CB where he aims.
Where's Bob Jewett?
That wouldn't be a touch of inside. It would be bottom left or bottom right, just more bottom than left or right which on a straight in draw shot is stupid, why make it more complicated and aim to cheat the pocket so that your draw goes straight back instead of to the left or right. There is no reason. My point is to learn ALL shots. Learn to aim at a spot on the cue ball and hit it with regularity. If you can hit with a touch of inside English on every shot than you can surely hit somewhere else on the ball too and for games like one pocket you MUST be proficient in all types of English... It is an absolute necessity.
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Aren't you just a daisy? :thumbup: have you ever heard of using Google?:thud:
I apologize for being rude. I was a little drunk and rowdy earlier. My main point was, why should I not strive to be the greatest pool player I can be with a mastery in all forms of English and cue ball control? I'm sorry but in theory inside English to any degree( a lot or a little) should be no more valuable, important, or common place than any other form of English. There are a near infinite ways to make any one single shot, why focus on only half of them(all shots contacting one side of the cue ball)? Outside English has it's place, time, and benefit just as inside does.
I'd like to help you, however, you must ask sensible questions.
The only time you need to spin the cue ball is to change the angle off the rail....I do that too. The TOI Technique if for shooting all the rest of the shots, that you can "cheat the pocket" using the 3 Part Pocket System rather than using spin. TOI is far superior to do this in my opinion and that's why I've always used it.
I strike the cue ball where I aim like Buddy does, just choose to favor the inside quadrant, it's not that complicated or difficult to believe, We have a 90 minute video that explains it in very simple terms.....I'm not sure you know the right questions to ask. We feel your confusion and frustration, are you a league player or what is your playing level. I'd like to help you, however, you must ask sensible questions.
The only time you need to spin the cue ball is to change the angle off the rail....I do that too. The TOI Technique if for shooting all the rest of the shots, that you can "cheat the pocket" using the 3 Part Pocket System rather than using spin. TOI is far superior to do this in my opinion and that's why I've always used it.
I strike the cue ball where I aim like Buddy does, just choose to favor the inside quadrant, it's not that complicated or difficult to believe, We have a 90 minute video that explains it in very simple terms.....I'm not sure you know the right questions to ask. We feel your confusion and frustration, are you a league player or what is your playing level. I'd like to help you, however, you must ask sensible questions.
It's easier and more accurate to just deflect your shots, than spin AND deflect shots
That's ok, I understand....at least I hope you Googled my name so you don't think I'm a "bumper pool player".
I have the ability to use any English possible on the pool table. This is because I"ve played since I was 7 years old and was winning tournaments by the time I was 12. Many players didn't have this much experience, so I shared a technique that was developed that will save them time, and they don't have to practice 8 hours a day to play at a very respectable level.
The TOI Technique was developed through the experience and guidance of some very wise road players. They showed me I don't need to use all those different shots, as a matter of fact I could play much better if I didn't.
If you use outside English it deflects/veers into the object ball, and will under cut it. The way you prevent the under cut is you spin it and it curves back to compensate for the deflection.
It's easier and more accurate to just deflect your shots, rather than spin AND deflect your shots. This is a pretty simple concept, are you following this, or do you see something technically wrong with my description?
That's ok, I understand....at least I hope you Googled my name so you don't think I'm a "bumper pool player".
I have the ability to use any English possible on the pool table. This is because I"ve played since I was 7 years old and was winning tournaments by the time I was 12. Many players didn't have this much experience, so I shared a technique that was developed that will save them time, and they don't have to practice 8 hours a day to play at a very respectable level.
The TOI Technique was developed through the experience and guidance of some very wise road players. They showed me I don't need to use all those different shots, as a matter of fact I could play much better if I didn't.
If you use outside English it deflects/veers into the object ball, and will under cut it. The way you prevent the under cut is you spin it and it curves back to compensate for the deflection.
It's easier and more accurate to just deflect your shots, rather than spin AND deflect your shots. This is a pretty simple concept, are you following this, or do you see something technically wrong with my description?
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