Unknown "monster" players

[j2pac]

Met some killers at a Michigan Tourney..........

Tim Roberts, Kenny Brisbon, Billy Pinion......Met these guys at a Michigan Tourney last year. Very good players indeed.

 

[Two-Rail Nate]

Vernon Elliot

Great thread, I read all 35 pages and while some great players were named, I'm going to cast another vote for Vernon Elliot. He is known now, but when he was in his prime very few people knew who he was. Also he didn't stay home and wait for the action to come to him he went looking for the action, high stakes action.

He wasn't just under the greatest players of his time, he was every bit their equal, or beyond. Let me give you some examples of people he played and beat, I'm sure you will recognize their names.

I saw a few of you mentioned Jr. Harris, a fine player to be sure. Well according to Jr., Vernon beat him five games of one pocket for $200, or $300 a game I can't remember which. Jr. said he never had a shot and never won a game.

Cliff Joyner played Vernon around the same time he was One Pocket World Champion. Vernon beat him four games in a row for several hundred a game. Cliff said he never had a shot and never made a ball.

When Ronnie Allen was in his prime he spotted Vernon 9-8 in 1-hole. Vernon robbed him. Then they played even for two, or three days even and broke even.

Larry Lisciotti once walked into the Parkmore Bowling Lanes in Louisville, Ky (Vernon Elliots home base). It was around the time of his 1976 World Open Pocket Billiard Championship Challenge of Champions victory. Vernon said 'Hello Larry' Slightly surprised Lisciotti replied 'You know who I am?' Vernon said 'yes, are you looking for a game' and to make a long story short he beat Larry at 9-ball, Bank & One Pocket out of around $4000. Then Larry suggested they play 14.1 to 300 points double or nothing. Vernon beat him at that too.

Vernon said the toughest game he could remember was against Allen Hopkins when Allen was in his prime. They broke even.

Remember folks, before the above mentioned players played Vernon, they didn't know who he was. He never once played in a tournament, not even a small local one. If Vernon wasn't the greatest 'Unknown' monster of all time then whoever is, is still unknown.

tl;dr Get your lazy butt back up there and start reading. Its a good story.

 

[Doug]

Monster players

Great thread, I read all 35 pages and while some great players were named, I'm going to cast another vote for Vernon Elliot. He is known now, but when he was in his prime very few people knew who he was. Also he didn't stay home and wait for the action to come to him he went looking for the action, high stakes action.

He wasn't just under the greatest players of his time, he was every bit their equal, or beyond. Let me give you some examples of people he played and beat, I'm sure you will recognize their names.

I saw a few of you mentioned Jr. Harris, a fine player to be sure. Well according to Jr., Vernon beat him five games of one pocket for $200, or $300 a game I can't remember which. Jr. said he never had a shot and never won a game.

Cliff Joyner played Vernon around the same time he was One Pocket World Champion. Vernon beat him four games in a row for several hundred a game. Cliff said he never had a shot and never made a ball.

When Ronnie Allen was in his prime he spotted Vernon 9-8 in 1-hole. Vernon robbed him. Then they played even for two, or three days even and broke even.

Larry Lisciotti once walked into the Parkmore Bowling Lanes in Louisville, Ky (Vernon Elliots home base). It was around the time of his 1976 World Open Pocket Billiard Championship Challenge of Champions victory. Vernon said 'Hello Larry' Slightly surprised Lisciotti replied 'You know who I am?' Vernon said 'yes, are you looking for a game' and to make a long story short he beat Larry at 9-ball, Bank & One Pocket out of around $4000. Then Larry suggested they play 14.1 to 300 points double or nothing. Vernon beat him at that too.

Vernon said the toughest game he could remember was against Allen Hopkins when Allen was in his prime. They broke even.

Remember folks, before the above mentioned players played Vernon, they didn't know who he was. He never once played in a tournament, not even a small local one. If Vernon wasn't the greatest 'Unknown' monster of all time then whoever is, is still unknown.

tl;dr Get your lazy butt back up there and start reading. Its a good story.

Yes, Vernon was the best!!!!!!! Here are a few other noteworthy names who played Vernon------and lost. Keith McCready, Earl Strickland, Nick Varner, Louie Roberts, and I could keep going on with the list. With the exception of Louie Roberts (RIP) the others can be contacted for verification. Buddy Hall was a road partner of Vernon's for a few years. Ask him if Vernon could play!

 

[book collector]

Black-Balled
Anybody from the east coast rate Tom Golley up there? How about Gary Nolan?


yes, Gary played/plays very well. i have it on good authority that his break and run high is in the double digits, that's awfully good
Bucky Bell too. is JR Gay unknown? he played pretty good too. Had our share in north East ohio

I used to take photos of all the good players and I chased JR Gay all over the country for 5 or 6 years in the early 90s asking if I could take some pics of him, he kept saying he was under cover and asked that I didn't say anything . I respected his wishes as I had always done but one time he ended up winning the US Open 1 Pocket tournament beating Nick Varner among others .
I said "You don't think your undercover anymore do you" ?
I got the pictures that day.

I also have pictures of my friend Jaffar Basheer "Patcheye" I don't know of anyone else he let take pictures of him.
I always wanted to write a book about these "Unknown" guys lives and travels, too bad it was not meant to be. I doubt anyone but die hard pool players would ever believe the stuff anyway .
Another guy I watched play some amazing 9 ball was Earl Kellum.

 

[catpool9]

Great Players

I used to take photos of all the good players and I chased JR Gay all over the country for 5 or 6 years in the early 90s asking if I could take some pics of him, he kept saying he was under cover and asked that I didn't say anything . I respected his wishes as I had always done but one time he ended up winning the US Open 1 Pocket tournament beating Nick Varner among others .
I said "You don't think your undercover anymore do you" ?
I got the pictures that day.

I also have pictures of my friend Jaffar Basheer "Patcheye" I don't know of anyone else he let take pictures of him.
I always wanted to write a book about these "Unknown" guys lives and travels, too bad it was not meant to be. I doubt anyone but die hard pool players would ever believe the stuff anyway .
Another guy I watched play some amazing 9 ball was Earl Kellum.

Yep Earl Kellum was damn good, him and my brother Country Calvin used to play for 2 and 3 days at a time, I always got along good with him, sure did admire his game.

The first time I ever saw him he came thru Warren, Arkansas when I was about 14yrs., I remember I was shooting some snooker and he and the pool hall owner were discussing a game, I ran about 40 points and he said that boy plays pretty good!, that was back in 1973, sure do miss that old rascal.


David Harcrow

 

[Island Drive]

Yeah, that's Gabby. he got his name because he never said a word when playing. True story! I played him in my first poolroom in Bakersfield, in the early 70's. He just stood there like a statue when I was shooting. Very disconcerting since I was used to playing black guys who had a "lot" to say. Like Cecil for instance.

I guess you know Gabby went to prison on a serious beef many years ago and eventually died in there. By the way, the guy in the background with the cue on his should is Big Bill Meacham who frequently posts on here. A very strong player from Colorado. This photo appears to be from Red's in Houston, making it circa mid 80's.

That Fellini Cue case on my shoulder in the Gabby pic I had for my Zam. I got that case from Paul Brienza, true story, Paul went busted at the original Hard Times in Costa Mesa back in the late seventies, he was trying to sell his Fellini for $25 dollars but all the players would offer him was fifteen. I told him I'd give him twenty five but he had to take a check, he finally did.

 

[doublej487]

we have a guy here in wv that could have been a world beater in 9 ball.... he is prob not to shabby at all the other games but ive only seen him play 9 ball... travis stamper..... he won the viking nationals in lexington in 2001 and now he hardley even plays.. but when he does he usally wins

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

Bobby Baldwin

I remember some years ago of a guy named Bobby Baldwin but havent heard his name in years. There is also a guy in Texas named Tony Sulsar who i heard plays pretty good.

I believe Bobby B. Was Matlocks brother in law, maybe father in law? I played him the night I beat David M. Bobby was constantly cleaning his glasses and wanted to show me how dirty they were. Nice man, but I don't really care about your damm glasses. I guess he got those glasses pretty clean cause he beat me!!

 

[gabesmom]

walden was a world beater. especially on table 1 at 50th and may. still plays pretty damn sporty i'm sure. i remember him giving mark dimick the wild 6 ball (one of okc's better players in the mid 90's). many of us were watching the match. knowing that was a big spot...but still...it was james. iirc james beat mark pretty badly with it. gabe owen happened to be one of the ones watching and jokingly said to james 'i'll take that spot'. james in his big drawl said 'you know that's outta line'...we all laughed in agreement. gabe had already started to make a name for himself and was starting to get national attention by now. james continued 'you need the 6 AND the break'. we all about fell off our chairs laughing...but he was serious. gabe put up all the money he had, his car and his cue. then proceeded to get trampled. left penniless and thumbing a ride with no cue over his shoulder. a quote and story that still rings as one of the most memorable i've witnessed.

also, tommy atkinson was one hell of a foosball player. before the big foosball boom i was one of okc area's best foosball players. then this young kid tommy came along and it seemed the tourneys always came down to me and him. at first it was a good battle then as the months went on, he continued on and really became a force. i got out of foos as the game really boomed in that area...i really just became outclassed...mainly my defense. but i did bump into tommy a lot on the pool table later on. kid really turned into a punk. i used to tell him that all the time. drug running, mouthy...a real ass. don't know how he is now...but this was right around the time he won some big doubles national or something....probably around '96 or '97.

since it sounds like you know the foosball world decent (i don't), i've always wanted to confirm a guy's story. after oklahoma, i ended up in college in pensacola florida and a teacher/professor there and i would play alot. he said he used to be a pro foose player. i'm thinking his last name was peterson....maybe tom peterson? wicked pull shot. i can't remember. name ring a bell?

Hi jigmore,

What car did Gabe lose? I've never known him to be without a car.

Or maybe he won it back. Just curious.

 

[doublej487]

here's a name for you. Does any old timer out there remember chuck morgan, a well known road man in the midwest in the 60's, 70's and 80's. What about pete glenn, the father of the glenn brothers who collect high end cues. Pete is still alive, about 80, and is a very distinguished looking man. Last time i saw him, he wore a big rim cowboy hat, sported a beard and looked like a character out of an old western movie. He raised a family of seven doing nothing but playing pool.

Did anyone ever see bud hypes play? He was unbeatable on his own table. I think he was in west virginia. Jack cooney never showed his face at a tournament for 25 years, but he made the biggest scores on the planet. Jr. Goff snuck around pretty good his whole life. In fact i heard he still plays from time to time in the south. He would be in his 80's.

George rood was probably the all time best unknown monster player. Back in the 60's and 70's, nobody could beat him, but he never went on the road, staying near his home in dayton. He and his wife raised dogs and competed in dog shows.

One more for you, chris raftis, maybe the best one handed player after ronnie and little sergio. Very doubtful ronnie could have beaten him at 9-ball. And he would have been a good match for sergio. I saw him easily beat eddie taylor playing one handed 9-ball, up in the air. That was in the 60's. My parents bought an old sport king from him and put it in our den when i was a kid. They were trying to keep me from hanging in the pool rooms. P.s. Their plan backfired! :smile:

Okay one more, gary nolan the bushwhacker. A notorious road man in the 70's and 80's. He has owned a room in pennsylvania for many years now.

if u wanna know about bud hypes.... Just ask larry price.... If im not mistakin he showed larry how to play

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

The Driller

I used to play a bunch with Donnie when I was in OKC from '88-'96. I was just in Cincinatti at Airport Billiards about a year ago. A guy that works there told me either he or his best friend were roomates with Donnie. I think Donnie went where we all feared. I think a chick got him all screwed up on drugs. Not sure if I remember correctly, though. But knew he always had that leaning.

Funny you just mentioned Driller. His name just popped into my head yesterday, and couldn't picture him. Gary Drennan, right? IIRC, didn't he pass away early 90's?

The Driller lives, should have died ten times, doesn't play much anymore. Saw him many times crawl all the way up on the table to shoot(short fellow) probably played at least 1/3 of people mentioned in this thread. Maybe not the greatest player from OKC but very entertaining. AGENT ORANGE he always yelled. Vietnam vet.

 

[OUSooner]

I've heard that same story but it wasn't a car. But it was cues, jewelry and the lot.

Hi jigmore,

What car did Gabe lose? I've never known him to be without a car.

Or maybe he won it back. Just curious.

 

[cesarmorales]

Any Joe Roacha or Mike Malacara stories from the Texas players.

 

[jhenneke]

old school players?

mike katsaris."pittsburgh mike" was road buddies with vernon

 

[jhenneke]

chicken george might have owned a hall in westerville, ohio around 96 or so. a buddy of mine used to refer to him as chicken shit george but i never did get the history behind that.

 

[jhenneke]

Great thread, I read all 35 pages and while some great players were named, I'm going to cast another vote for Vernon Elliot. He is known now, but when he was in his prime very few people knew who he was. Also he didn't stay home and wait for the action to come to him he went looking for the action, high stakes action.

He wasn't just under the greatest players of his time, he was every bit their equal, or beyond. Let me give you some examples of people he played and beat, I'm sure you will recognize their names.

I saw a few of you mentioned Jr. Harris, a fine player to be sure. Well according to Jr., Vernon beat him five games of one pocket for $200, or $300 a game I can't remember which. Jr. said he never had a shot and never won a game.

Cliff Joyner played Vernon around the same time he was One Pocket World Champion. Vernon beat him four games in a row for several hundred a game. Cliff said he never had a shot and never made a ball.

When Ronnie Allen was in his prime he spotted Vernon 9-8 in 1-hole. Vernon robbed him. Then they played even for two, or three days even and broke even.

Larry Lisciotti once walked into the Parkmore Bowling Lanes in Louisville, Ky (Vernon Elliots home base). It was around the time of his 1976 World Open Pocket Billiard Championship Challenge of Champions victory. Vernon said 'Hello Larry' Slightly surprised Lisciotti replied 'You know who I am?' Vernon said 'yes, are you looking for a game' and to make a long story short he beat Larry at 9-ball, Bank & One Pocket out of around $4000. Then Larry suggested they play 14.1 to 300 points double or nothing. Vernon beat him at that too.

Vernon said the toughest game he could remember was against Allen Hopkins when Allen was in his prime. They broke even.

Remember folks, before the above mentioned players played Vernon, they didn't know who he was. He never once played in a tournament, not even a small local one. If Vernon wasn't the greatest 'Unknown' monster of all time then whoever is, is still unknown.

tl;dr Get your lazy butt back up there and start reading. Its a good story.

my buddy mike katsaris says he was good buddies with vernon reid and tells a story of vernon going to play cincinnati clem just to beat him because clem was beating everybody.. mike says vernon started on one barrel and busted clem. according to mike, vernon would just go play whoever was claiming to be the baddest on their own turf, and nobody was a better all around player.

 

[Steve Logan]

Players

Mike played pretty sporty until the "life" took him over. Yeah, I played Faircloth about two years ago. He's a trip. He slammed the cueball on the table so hard, it almost bounced all of the way to the light. I once saw Sparky Ferrell win something like 12 or 15 games in a row for a buck a game against Cone. He was shellshocked.

The guy in Roxboro, NC plays pretty sporty too! :thumbup::wink:

 

[Doug]

Monster players

my buddy mike katsaris says he was good buddies with vernon reid and tells a story of vernon going to play cincinnati clem just to beat him because clem was beating everybody.. mike says vernon started on one barrel and busted clem. according to mike, vernon would just go play whoever was claiming to be the baddest on their own turf, and nobody was a better all around player.

Vernon told me about this road trip. He and Buddy Hall were on the road together at the time and Vernon said they did indeed have only one barrel and bet it all. He said had Clem known that was all the money he and Buddy had he would never have played. Vernon said he was unfamiliar with one pocket at the time which was the game he and Clem Metz played, Clem's speciality. Clem was a known and feared one pocket player at the time, not that I can imagine Vernon was ever fearful of anything. Vernon said he knew he could make any shot at his pocket if he got one but he said what allowed him to beat Clem was his ability to bank balls, even those that don't go. Finally Clem pulled up after a big loss. Buddy tried to get Clem to play Vernon another set and Clem refused but told Buddy if he wanted to play he would be glad to play more. Buddy didn't go for it though.

 

[jhenneke]

Vernon told me about this road trip. He and Buddy Hall were on the road together at the time and Vernon said they did indeed have only one barrel and bet it all. He said had Clem known that was all the money he and Buddy had he would never have played. Vernon said he was unfamiliar with one pocket at the time which was the game he and Clem Metz played, Clem's speciality. Clem was a known and feared one pocket player at the time, not that I can imagine Vernon was ever fearful of anything. Vernon said he knew he could make any shot at his pocket if he got one but he said what allowed him to beat Clem was his ability to bank balls, even those that don't go. Finally Clem pulled up after a big loss. Buddy tried to get Clem to play Vernon another set and Clem refused but told Buddy if he wanted to play he would be glad to play more. Buddy didn't go for it though.

thats exactly the way mikey told me. wise on buddy-clem probably would have gotten that one. mike says he played danny diliberto dead even for about 14 hours straight or so? has a tale or few about all the greats.-

 

[jhenneke]

good read

reading confessions of a pool hustler by "cotton". some good stuff in there!