Unresponsive rails on a GC III

B

Brisk

Registered
Hi. I recently bought a second hand GC III (approx. 20 years old). I had a new Milliken superpro cloth put on it however, I am not happy with the rails.

The installer told me there is 20 years left in the rubbers but on some shots -- particularly those where I am trying to follow through with a lot of English -- 90% of the time I come up short. The last time I played on a GC III in London you only had to tap the cue ball and it would be flying all over the table but on my table I have to hit the ball incredibly hard if I want to get anywhere -- especially on the follow shots. It has nothing to do with my stroke as friends also agree with me.

It also came with 5" pockets which are a bit too big for me. Ideally I would like 4 1/2". Is my best option removable shims? (can you recommend some?), permanent shims or to get new pockets?

Any advice would be appreciated.
 
Unless your mechanic installed new Artemis cushions, for him to tell you the cushions will last 20 years is pretty far fetched.:rolleyes: The rubber could just as easily turn to stone wihin a year, especially if its Superspeed. Put your cue ball on the head spot and shoot it with a hard stroke the length of the table. You should get at least 4.5 rebounds. If you don't there's a good chance that the rubber needs replaced or the cloth is not installed tight enough.
 
Permanent shims (aka subrail extensions) will be the best way to get your pockets down to 4.5" and still have the table play good. Stacking rubber facings in the pockets to get them down to 4.5" is a bad idea. :( Subrail extensions will be expensive and would also require that you replace the rubber and rail cloth, but is the only way you're going to get your table both tightened up and made faster without compromising playability.
 
I've never seen Super Speeds last 20 years to begin with. Had them fail with in a year right off the shelf. (no idea how long they were on the shelf but.....)

I agree with Jack to change them out and do subrail extensions. Artemis Intercontinental No. 55 cushions are the best....and most expensive. An excellent alternative at a third the cost are Diamond black K55's. Spend the extra cash and do it right the first, errrrrr second time since you've already covered your rails.
 
Thanks for the info.

Yes I suppose I shouldn't have rushed in and bought the table but it's not so easy to get things checked out here in Australia.

A day after the installer left I also noticed that the table was sloping quite significantly to one side...is it normal for it to become so uneven so quickly?

I called the company who sold it to me and they said the installer would come back to relevel it and that my issue with the rails was unsual. They said he would tighten them to see if that helps. My concern is that the table will become uneven once again and that tightening the rails won't really do much. I tested out hitting the cue ball from the spot and I could only get 4.25 lengths on a very hard hit.

The table was sold to me in 'good condition'. Do you think that sounds fair? I would like new rails and smaller pockets but i'm not sure that I should have to pay for it all or even any of it. The table already cost me US $4550 + US $470 for installation.
 
Brisk said:
Thanks for the info.

Yes I suppose I shouldn't have rushed in and bought the table but it's not so easy to get things checked out here in Australia.

A day after the installer left I also noticed that the table was sloping quite significantly to one side...is it normal for it to become so uneven so quickly?

I called the company who sold it to me and they said the installer would come back to relevel it and that my issue with the rails was unsual. They said he would tighten them to see if that helps. My concern is that the table will become uneven once again and that tightening the rails won't really do much. I tested out hitting the cue ball from the spot and I could only get 4.25 lengths on a very hard hit.

The table was sold to me in 'good condition'. Do you think that sounds fair? I would like new rails and smaller pockets but i'm not sure that I should have to pay for it all or even any of it. The table already cost me US $4550 + US $470 for installation.
Click to expand...

a level table is an issue by itself that the installing company should fix but make sure you check it when the installer is done. might not be the table but maybe the table settling if you have carpet or a weak floor. other things to check is the tightness of the cloth and that it was installed correct side up and the height of the cushions. also that the rails are bolted tight because loose rails could play kinda dead. did a ball set come with the table and what size are they. just some things to look at.
joe
 
Brisk said:
Thanks for the info.

Yes I suppose I shouldn't have rushed in and bought the table but it's not so easy to get things checked out here in Australia.

A day after the installer left I also noticed that the table was sloping quite significantly to one side...is it normal for it to become so uneven so quickly?

I called the company who sold it to me and they said the installer would come back to relevel it and that my issue with the rails was unsual. They said he would tighten them to see if that helps. My concern is that the table will become uneven once again and that tightening the rails won't really do much. I tested out hitting the cue ball from the spot and I could only get 4.25 lengths on a very hard hit.

The table was sold to me in 'good condition'. Do you think that sounds fair? I would like new rails and smaller pockets but i'm not sure that I should have to pay for it all or even any of it. The table already cost me US $4550 + US $470 for installation.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty high price to pay for a GC3...unless it's been completely rebuilt first...and I don't mean factory rebuilt;)
 
Brisk said:
I tested out hitting the cue ball from the spot and I could only get 4.25 lengths on a very hard hit.
Click to expand...

I'm a little perplexed because 4.25 table lengths is not that far off from 4 1/2. I would think dead rails would result in a difference of more than 1/4 of a table length. Obviously the speed test is dependent on both the rails and the cloth. I'm not sure how your cloth compares to say, Simonis 860 in terms of speed.

I wonder if humidity could be an issue.

I'm not a mechanic and I'm very interested in what the experts have to say.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
I'm a little perplexed because 4.25 table lengths is not that far off from 4 1/2. I would think dead rails would result in a difference of more than 1/4 of a table length. Obviously the speed test is dependent on both the rails and the cloth. I'm not sure how your cloth compares to say, Simonis 860 in terms of speed.

I wonder if humidity could be an issue.

I'm not a mechanic and I'm very interested in what the experts have to say.
Click to expand...

I really think bouncing the cueball up the table and counting how many rails it hits is way overrated.
I've seen Olhausens go 5 rails but the ball was bouncing funny on the second rail.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I really think bouncing the cueball up the table and counting how many rails it hits is way overrated.
I've seen Olhausens go 5 rails but the ball was bouncing funny on the second rail.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. Also, the ball could go 4.5 lengths and that still doesn't mean everything is perfect. It could be you have super lively rails but the cloth still isn't properly stretched, just that the fast cushions are compensating for the slow cloth.

I was just commenting on the fact that there is not that much difference between 4 1/4 and 4 1/2 table lengths.

Though I can sometimes get 4.5 table lengths I usually get about 4 1/4 when I do the test. I know there is not a problem with my table because Donny set it up with new Artemis Intercon's and 860 so there is no problem with the rubber or the stretch. But my table is in the garage and I live very near the beach. I think the slightly higher humidity where I live is the main factor. I try the same test on the tables at the pool hall by my house (also by the beach) and it is the same deal - about 4 1/4 lengths.
 
I guess the fast cloth (Milliken Superpro) could be compensating for the unresponsive rails in my situation...hence the 4.25...

But regardless, something just doen't seem right with the rails.
 
Brisk said:
I guess the fast cloth (Milliken Superpro) could be compensating for the unresponsive rails in my situation...hence the 4.25...

But regardless, something just doen't seem right with the rails.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt it, especially if they are superspeeds and are not brand new. You can tell as much, if not more, simply by playing on the table rather than relying on an up-and-back speed test.
 
Brisk said:
I guess the fast cloth (Milliken Superpro) could be compensating for the unresponsive rails in my situation...hence the 4.25...

But regardless, something just doen't seem right with the rails.
Click to expand...

You can tell how bad they are when frozen balls somehow double kiss the cueball often.
 
Brisk said:
I guess the fast cloth (Milliken Superpro) could be compensating for the unresponsive rails in my situation...hence the 4.25...

But regardless, something just doen't seem right with the rails.
Click to expand...

your cushions are not unresponsive but seems like the table needs some tweaking. go to different spots around the table and measure the cushion point height and let us know that. what is the size and style of ball set?
joe
 
I,m i wrong or changing gc superspeed rubber k55 with arhemis k66 will bring the nose of the cushion high? I assume that u must change angle on rail where rubber is glued ?

SFMBE (sry for my bad eng ) :D
 
peter_gunn said:
I,m i wrong or changing gc superspeed rubber k55 with arhemis k66 will bring the nose of the cushion high? I assume that u must change angle on rail where rubber is glued ?

SFMBE (sry for my bad eng ) :D
Click to expand...

Correct. Using K66 when K55 is called for will raise the nose height of the cushion.
Using K66 or recutting the subrail to use K66 results in a change to the playfield dimensions.
 
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