[UPDATED] APA complaint advice - My new-to-pool player went to a 7 in 7 matches (?!?!)
- Thread starter imbillmoney
- Start date
I have an opinion, but in all things APA it doesn't matter.
That said, if I saw a player ranked anything less than a 7 run 5 racks. I'd be mentioning it to the LO, for necessary adjustment. I don't care how small a sample size it is. A 6 no matter how good a day they're having, will not put together a 5 pack of anything.
It was an exaggeration, with my point being, you just don't jump someone to the top of the heap in 7 matches. And this dude did not run 1 rack, I don't believe.
Well, who the fuk said they would be a three. JC, I just said nobody should be moved to a after 7 matches. Maybe a 6 if fine, let them hang there and see how they do against some good players. THis guy may have gotten a taste of bangers and chokers. But, moving up and down every week is just dumb.
It was an exaggeration. I didn't mean it literally. Not even a six would likely put a 5-pack together, as already mentioned above. And the one I know for sure that did, was the following week moved to a 7. I don't give a damn about the sample size.
Now go get a tube of Preparation H and take care of that but pain you have.
I should mention now that that was a joke.
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I dont know if you read the op's post or not but its obvious this guy was not a banger that they picked up off the street. The op stated that this guy had played money league and napa. I am curious as to what this guys napa handicap is so we could compare it to dr. Daves chart.
Not every one that joins apa is a banger. 2 off the top of my head are examples.
One was a money league player who happened to join an opposing team that we played his first night. Being that i had played on the same money league team with him i knew his playing ability and after some back and forth with the opposing captain she agreed to start him as a 5 even though i told her he would be a 7. Well the next week he was a 7 and competitive with the other 7"s .
Then we had a guy who moved here that no one knew. There was a whole lot of complaning going on from every one until he eventually became a 7/8. He was also spending weekends gambling with serious players on the 9 foot table and holding his own. New apa bangers dont do that unless they are mad at their money. 6 months after joining he took a team mate with him to vegas where they came in first place. In scotch doubles.
I have no problem with "known ability" and bumping anyone up.
Oh, I forgot to mention, jokes in AZB are suppose to be funny. So, sure, tell me which is the funny part in what you type.It was an exaggeration. I didn't mean it literally. Not even a six would likely put a 5-pack together, as already mentioned above. And the one I know for sure that did, was the following week moved to a 7. I don't give a damn about the sample size.
Now go get a tube of Preparation H and take care of that but pain you have.
Oh, the old I got caught typing something so stupid, maybe they will believe I was joking. Yeah, that's the ticket. LMAO
Prep H is in aisle 4, I think. Enjoy.
If someone breaks and runs five games in a single match, they certainly ain't no goddamn 3! That's common sense!
What if he really is a 7? He'd be underrated in every match until he got there. I think you should always take your best guess, even if you only have seven data points. I guess you're saying it's better to be too low than too high. Equating it to a baseball MVP is absurd, too, but you already know thatOh, I don't know, common sense. I guess after 7 baseball games, lets just give someone the MVP award and call it a day. Dude plays seven matches and he's at the top of the top players in the league. Sorry, homie no play that game
. After 7 baseball games, I can't tell you who the MVP will be, but I CAN tell you that MANY rookies will have a fielding percentage of 1.000. They're all among the best fielders in the league at that time. One error and they probably aren't even in the top half for a while though, and both rankings are probably wrong.I especially like the way you and others praise Fargo for acknowledging that it takes hundreds of samples to have a reasonably accurate rating, or at least reasonable confidence in the rating you have (it could actually be spot on after a single match) but when APA acknowledges the very same concept (it's even in the team manual), you scoff at them. You say Fargo ratings get "recalculated" but APA ratings get "adjusted" or "bumped", when in fact they just get "recalculated" too. Apply a formula to the data you have and you get today's result. They're both the same in that respect - only the formula and the data are different, and they have to be because they serve different purposes. It's like Fargo invented math or something. It's nothing new, Fargo just publishes more buckets. APA has them, but chooses not to publish them, for their players' purposes they're not required - they don't change races.
I don't know how that answers the question, which was "Why can't someone be a 7 after just seven matches?".
well, since I never mentioned Fargo one time, ever, and don't even have a Fargo rating I guess you are just ranting, huh?What if he really is a 7? He'd be underrated in every match until he got there. I think you should always take your best guess, even if you only have seven data points. I guess you're saying it's better to be too low than too high. Equating it to a baseball MVP is absurd, too, but you already know that
I especially like the way you and others praise Fargo for acknowledging that it takes hundreds of samples to have a reasonably accurate rating, or at least reasonable confidence in the rating you have (it could actually be spot on after a single match) but when APA acknowledges the very same concept (it's even in the team manual), you scoff at them. You say Fargo ratings get "recalculated" but APA ratings get "adjusted" or "bumped", when in fact they just get "recalculated" too. Apply a formula to the data you have and you get today's result. They're both the same in that respect - only the formula and the data are different, and they have to be because they serve different purposes. It's like Fargo invented math or something. It's nothing new, Fargo just publishes more buckets. APA has them, but chooses not to publish them, for their players' purposes they're not required - they don't change races.
Yeah, bump him to a 6 and see how he does. 7 matches means he probably played some easy matches. Not even a half season of league, is it?
So, a 6 waiting to be a 7 is more than fair. Many folks are 6 and all the bangers think he should be a 7. Seven should be difficult to reach. It should be a Master or at lease Advanced player to get there. So, some decent 6 gets moved to a 7 and has to play state champions dead even. Yeah, that seems very reasonable. That's all I'm saying. Folks will know he's new and he will be moved up if he keeps crushing it. But, geez 7 matches is just not enough. Beyond stupid every week you can't figure out your roster because 4 folks were moved up or down or sideways.
And what's your point? Im not going to change that statement and I stand by it. I used a 3 as an exaggeration, but could have said a 5 or 6 and still made my point. Oh.... and the last part about Preparation H WAS funny.
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Not really. Here's the association with you and Fargo, from this thread. I even said what hang-the-9 said word-for-word, so you and he would recognize it. He said it, you agreed.
> ChicagoRJ: Great point.
I want to preface this post with two statements:
1.) I have seen just about everything in my 16 years of APA leagues, so NOTHING suprises me anymore.
2.) I have never sandbagged one, single inning in my life.
That said, I wish to relate this personal experience of mine. Six or seven years ago I was playing APA-league (8-ball) in another area (Arlington) that I am no longer a part of. During that time I was moved up to a SL6 and played as one for several sessions.
I laid off from pool leagues for a year or two and decided to go back to APA 8-ball league, but in another area (Tarrant County) near to the one I had been playing in. When I had played in this area before, I was a SL5 in 8-ball. I moved up to a SL6 during my Arlington sessions.
So when I joined a new team back in Tarrant County and showed up for the first night of league, the scoresheet had me as a SL5. I scratched that handicap out with a pen and wrote a 6 where the 5 had previously been. I didn't play that night.
The next week I show up and the scoresheet still has me listed as a SL5. I played that night, but cannot remember the outcome of the match. The next day, I messaged the League Operator on the Tarrant County APA website and explained to her that I was pretty sure that my skill level should be a 6. After all, I told her, my membership # was still the same one I had been using for the previous 13 years, and if the National database had me as a 6 (and a successful one at that) before I switched areas, why wasn't I still ranked a SL6?
So....the next week on the scoresheet I was still a SL5. I gave up. I decided that I'd let the scoresheet do all of the talking. I have been playing as a SL5 for 3-plus sessions now. I was 8 out of 10 two sessions ago and 5 out of 6 this last session (winning my last three matches against two 5's and a SL6 4-1, 4-0, and 4-0, with the last two wins rackless nights.
I've had a few players on other teams ask me how the hell I'm not a SL6 and I relate the same story to them as I posted above. You just cannot figure it out....APA can be that way.
Maniac
1.) I have seen just about everything in my 16 years of APA leagues, so NOTHING suprises me anymore.
2.) I have never sandbagged one, single inning in my life.
That said, I wish to relate this personal experience of mine. Six or seven years ago I was playing APA-league (8-ball) in another area (Arlington) that I am no longer a part of. During that time I was moved up to a SL6 and played as one for several sessions.
I laid off from pool leagues for a year or two and decided to go back to APA 8-ball league, but in another area (Tarrant County) near to the one I had been playing in. When I had played in this area before, I was a SL5 in 8-ball. I moved up to a SL6 during my Arlington sessions.
So when I joined a new team back in Tarrant County and showed up for the first night of league, the scoresheet had me as a SL5. I scratched that handicap out with a pen and wrote a 6 where the 5 had previously been. I didn't play that night.
The next week I show up and the scoresheet still has me listed as a SL5. I played that night, but cannot remember the outcome of the match. The next day, I messaged the League Operator on the Tarrant County APA website and explained to her that I was pretty sure that my skill level should be a 6. After all, I told her, my membership # was still the same one I had been using for the previous 13 years, and if the National database had me as a 6 (and a successful one at that) before I switched areas, why wasn't I still ranked a SL6?
So....the next week on the scoresheet I was still a SL5. I gave up. I decided that I'd let the scoresheet do all of the talking. I have been playing as a SL5 for 3-plus sessions now. I was 8 out of 10 two sessions ago and 5 out of 6 this last session (winning my last three matches against two 5's and a SL6 4-1, 4-0, and 4-0, with the last two wins rackless nights.
I've had a few players on other teams ask me how the hell I'm not a SL6 and I relate the same story to them as I posted above. You just cannot figure it out....APA can be that way.
Maniac
Whenever you play in a different area, you play under a different number. The last five digits (what you see on the scoresheet) may be the same, but the first three aren't. The League Operator can see all the numbers, including the ones in other areas, and when you started back in Tarrant County they should have seen that you most recently were a 6 in Arlington and made the proper adjustment.
What I'm unsure of here is the timing of your moves between areas. From your post, it sounds like you played in Tarrant County first, then Arlington, then back in Tarrant County. Is that correct? If it is, and if you made the switch to Arlington before 2012, then it's possible that the Tarrant County LO doesn't even know about the Arlington record. Before 2012 a player had separate records in each area in which they played and the only way to combine those records is to know about them some other way and have APA Corporate combine them. It could be possible that this never happened in your case. Then again, maybe the LO was just sleeping on the job. I don't know.
Well......I told her about it in an e-mail to her local APA league website. I said as much in my above post.
What baffles me is how I can be running all over these opponents in short-to-medium innings and still not be raised.
I guess eventually it'll catch up to me.
You didn't say you told her about Arlington. You only said you told her you were pretty sure you should be a 6. I get that sometimes, players who haven't played in a while mis-remembering their skill level. I didn't know if you told her about the other area or not. Since you say you did, the only answer is she didn't follow up. Maybe your message to her got lost, or maybe she just dropped the ball. I'd try again if I were you.
With respect, nearly all that you said here is incorrect, aside from the handicap being based on your best 10 of the last 20.
Game scores are essentially irrelevant on their own. For every match you play, you get a single match score. The innings of individual games are not input at all! Only the total innings, safes, and games. That it lol.
It most assuredly matters how many innings it takes to win the match. If the best 10 of your last 20 yields an average inning/game of 5, you will have a different s/l than if your average is 3. That is literally the most fundamental element of the APA system.
It is actually extremely rare for *anyone* to move up or down based on their win percentage unless they are being shit out every match.
The link provided provides a decent overview of the APA system. I didn’t scrutinize it to see if it covers every detail (which I have seen and read). Id recommend rereading it to familiarize yourself with the info.
KMRUNOUT
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You are correct, but only partially. Yes, total innings are put on the scoresheet. But when they are entered in the computer, the computer recognizes an AVERAGE of the innings of the games you won. The applied score is also based on the AVERAGE of Innings of your games won. The way you explained it completely ignores the applied score Factor. Without applied score, it would be too easy to run up innings and still win. The applied score nullifies that.
You did make me realize I made an error when I said it is based off of individual games. It is actually based off an average of those individual games.
I will change my previous post. Previous post in blue.... changes in orange...
Let's say im a 6 with a 70% win percentage, and I win my match. Let's say in my 5 games won (short format), I get innings as follows....
1st.. 4 innings
2nd.. 3 innings
3rd.. 5 innings
4th. 2 innings
5th. 3 innings
That is an average of 3.4 Innings per game won.
If you look at the chart, it says a 6 with a 70% win average should win in 2.3 innings per game. The score you receive will be the applied score of 2.3 , not the 3.4 that's on the scoresheet.
The info on the handicap system in the link came from a public court document when the APA was involved in a lawsuit. The APA tries/tried to suppress that info. Ask Dr Dave about it if you dont believe me. The good doctor has seen this court document first-hand . How do I know this? Because he asked me to send it to him. I'm not going to divulge any more on the private conversation I had with him without his permission. But you can always p.m. him yourself.
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