US DPEN Time for a little Clarity

[iusedtoberich]

Jay,

Pat is under the same scrutiny that Barry is. That's the price of doing business with Barry. Like it or not, that is the way it is.

Now, Pat has an unquestionable track record. BUT, he is now opening himself up to questions because of his association with Barry. If Pat would post the bank statement (of course removing account numbers), then there would be NO ROOM to question Pat.

The way it stands now, there is still some discrepancies. One is that it took I believe 6 calendar days for Pat to issue a statement after the orignal promised date that the 75k would be in place. Why did it take so many extra days? Surely, everyone involved knew that all of the pool world knew the date and was waiting for an answer. I'm sure they could have had a press release written days or even weeks ahead of time, if the money was ready. Did Barry beg Pat for a few extra days to raise the money? Did Barry beg Pat to say the 75k is there, and he will promise to add it later? These are just hypotheticals, but knowing that the announcement was several days late, leads one to speculate.

As a reminder, Barry has in the past 2 or 3 years stated in his own press releases (I'm paraphrasing):

"I will have the money in paper cash to pay each player, in a big clear display during the event"

and another year:

"I will deposit the money in my Suntrust account and show everyone the statement"

Obviously, neither of these ever happened. Again, Pat is not Barry. But, Pat is now under the same scrutiny.

Respectfully,
Nick

 

[GoldenFlash]

Jay has been quite clear in outlining the added money, impact of free entries for past champions etc. as has Pat. Pat joined the commentator’s booth at the Turning Stone stream to specifically address anyone who wished to ask questions via the chat. He also indicated how/where he could be contacted if anyone came up with other concerns; both Jay and Pat have been open and transparent.
To make a post like this demanding that bank statements be publically posted is arrogance taken to the extreme and disrespectful to the very people that have stepped in to rescue a good event that was in serious trouble.
I suggest that what is “that simple” is you “simply” do not take the time to keep up to date on the many missives given out by Pat and Jay and you simply do not get it.
We are all upset with the past shenanigans that have gone on to drag this event to its knees and no one can defend the past errors that Barry has made. To cast aspersions on those people of sterling reputation, who have stepped in to help and put their credibility on the line by suggesting they do not know what they are doing in that they need to show copies of anything to you or anyone else to prove they are doing what they have committed to is simply beyond the pale and yes (in response to your next post #52), it is not reasonable.
Jerry

They know EXACTLY what they're doing. Never doubt that.

 

[Poolplaya9]

Your platitudes and historical references pale in the face of a full and thorough examination. I detect some fear.
However, at this time, since you are one of the godheads of the pool playing industry, I will remain silent until another time. But, I will be watching you and your partners like a hawk (as everyone should do) when it comes to any business transaction of this size based on a handshake and "I give you my word".
If this thing falls apart when it comes to paying off....I am going to be on you like white on rice. There are others with a lot more investigating interests than me who are observing as well. Since I am just a meaningless nobody to the pool world, you should just ignore me completely.
It would be wonderful if it came off nice and clean.....but its history and the dysfunctional nature of so many pool players "who will beat everybody up out in the alley" indicate that it will not.:yeah:
Remember, "revenge is a dish that is best served cold".
Only time will tell. Byeeeee.

Your suspicions and concerns would be fully warranted (and in fact be understated) if the US Open 9 Ball Championship was fully in control of Barry as it has been in years past. In that case the chances that Barry would screw up or screw people are similar to the chances that the sun will come up tomorrow.

I also agree that in general it would be a good idea for any promoter for any event to prove that the prize fund is in escrow as promised. There isn't really any good reason not to, and it goes a long way towards putting people's minds at ease.

That said, Barry has relinquished control of the full prize fund to Pat Fleming and will never have any access to it. Pat has confirmed that, Jay Helfert has confirmed that, and Barry himself has confirmed that, all publicly. Pat Fleming has decades of history of integrity. He is putting his long built and solid reputation on the line by volunteering to do this, with his primary motivation likely being just trying to salvage what was once was a premiere event and keep it from failing and going away completely. He is probably taking a loss with his involvement by any measure (financial, etc).

Pat stands nothing to gain by lying about what funds are already accumulated, nor would he stand to gain if players don't get paid in full as promised. But he stands to lose a fantastic reputation of integrity built up over decades. Why would he screw all that up over something he didn't even have to agree to help out with and for which he stands nothing to gain if there were any shenanigans?

Where I come from you generally give an amount of trust that is commensurate with how good someone's track record has been in the past, and the length of that track record. Pat has been doing business in the industry for decades and to my knowledge by all accounts his record for integrity is stellar. If Barry said the sky was blue I would go outside and look up to confirm. But someone with Pat's record deserves some trust until and unless it is somehow proven that he doesn't deserve it. There isn't even a legitimate reason to suspect that much less anything concrete.

Pat says he has the added money in his possession. All entry fees are being paid to him directly. Pat says Barry will never have access to any of the prize money. Pat says he will be handling the player payments himself. I see no reason for anyone to doubt his word on any of it. What Pat is deserving of at this point is some thank you's, not unwarranted suspicion.

 

[jay helfert]

Your platitudes and historical references pale in the face of a full and thorough examination. I detect some fear.
However, at this time, since you are one of the godheads of the pool playing industry, I will remain silent until another time. But, I will be watching you and your partners like a hawk (as everyone should do) when it comes to any business transaction of this size based on a handshake and "I give you my word".
If this thing falls apart when it comes to paying off....I am going to be on you like white on rice. There are others with a lot more investigating interests than me who are observing as well. Since I am just a meaningless nobody to the pool world, you should just ignore me completely.
It would be wonderful if it came off nice and clean.....but its history and the dysfunctional nature of so many pool players "who will beat everybody up out in the alley" indicate that it will not.:yeah:
Remember, "revenge is a dish that is best served cold".
Only time will tell. Byeeeee.

Good for you.

 

[Colormegone2002]

They are all past champions who Barry prefers to invite. Probably a dozen of them who are still active will accept his offer of a free entry fee. This may be the last year for this, with only the defending champion getting a freebie in the future.

It should always only be the defending champ that gets a free entry.To give

any more than that is crazy. imo

 

[GideonF]

It's not about being "big enough and ugly enough to take care of himself"....that's poolroom bum talk. It is about BUSINESS.
I said it in a previous post.
All Helfert and Fleming have to do to knock out a huge amount of skepticism going in, is to merely post on this forum a copy of the bank statement showing the money deposited in the bank NOW.
Since Fleming is the one who seems to be the presumptive 'check writing guy', he could do a lot for this tournament by posting the bank statement right now. (instead of being at pool tournaments commentating on the same old things"
Show the proof....that is a very simple thing to do, if it's all there. (just like getting a mortgage....."furnish bank statements to the loan processor").
Is that too unreasonable??????

Yes, it is too unreasonable. Players can judge for themselves whether they wish to rely on Pat's reputation, which so far as I know is spotless. I should also say that "posting a copy of the bank statement" is useless anyway. It is easy to deposit money into an account and move it out the next day. In the end, you have to trust the person controlling the account.

Gideon

 

[Keith Jawahir]

Am I the only person here who heard Pat on the Turning Stone live stream directly replying to everything said in this thread? I don't remember exactly what he said, but I do know that he comprehensively laid all our fears to rest.

 

[Keith Jawahir]

Pat answered some questions live on the Turning stone stream from the chat today regarding the US Open.

His answers to the questions are (paraphrasing):
1. The 75k is in place
2. The 75k is added even if 6 total players enter.
3. The 15 active past champions receive free entry. Barry is NOT paying 1K for their entry. He clarified this explicitly, as even his co-commentator Jerry Forsyth thought Barry was actually paying for the 15 players out of his own pocket. So 15 FREE entries, plus 113 PAID entries, plus 75K added = 128 players, and 188K purse.
4. He said that if some of the past champions decline their free entry and do not play, AND, if there is another player with money in hand who wants to enter, then the number of PAID entries will be over 113, and the prize money would be higher. The 75K added would not change in either case.
5. He said the tournament ends on a Friday, instead of on Sunday this year, because that's the way Barry wanted it due to Halloween.
6. The total number of players entered thus far are 42 or 43 [I forget which he said]. This includes the 15 free entries of the past champions. [Note, the acca-stats website currently lists 38 total players as I write this, so it probably has not been updated with the latest few entries]
7. Entries can be made in person on the day of the event if there is room left.
8. Barry will be on the microphone, but Pat will put him on 1/2 hour earlier than normal, so that he does not interfere with the match schedules.
9. Pat made a reference that he is handling the money for the VIP seats. Although, I might have misunderstood this, so I'm not certain on this point.
10. Any questions anyone has please call Pat at his 800 number (he gave it, and its on the acc-stats website) and he will be happy to discuss one on one.


Questions I saw not answered by Pat:
1. Is Pat only handling the prize money, or is he also handling the referee/staff/hotel/vendor payments?
2. Has Shane been paid in full for his prior wins? We know he has been on a payment plan, but is it fully paid off as of today.

To be fair, Pat did a great job with the questions. He was carefully reading the chat (the stream showed him) and answering between racks. So I don't know if he chose to not answer these questions, or did not see them.

Here it is.

 

[PINKLADY]

....So yes, it was some key players in the industry that got the results, but what lit the fire under their butt to do so and to make that stand together was the public activism. Had that not happened it would be business as usual this year with no escrow and nobody significant in the industry making any real stand.

it's amazing how influential the "haters" (aka: CONSUMER$) were. the sponsors, vendors, players, & paid employees saw the lost revenue writing on the wall this time, and CYA'd. it's that simple.

as of tonight, there are 60 (45 paying) players registered. everyone involved should have timely transparency regarding the venue and purse being locked down. (and this should come from BB's office; it is not Pat's & Jay's responsibility.) if the players don't like the payouts, they may withdraw at the last minute. if enough players withdraw, the vendors & consumers may not invest. a non-refundable registration deadline would be a good idea, so that all can make an informed decision about their expenses. setting a date forces compliance.

PS - thank you for your calls to the WPA. i'm sure there was no strong-arming whatsoever....