Using glare off balls for aiming method????

[Patrick Johnson]

I just read my post again to make sure, and it makes perfect sense. The light acts as a mirror, with the source being consistent from anywhere on the table. The only time the system doesn't work is if the lights are not hanging dead-center.

I'll try again:

With flourescent lights, you will see a "bar" of light on each ball. With the banking system I described above, you aim the end of the bar on the CB to the "center" of the bar on the OB. All I do really is "connect the dots" visually and pull the trigger at pocket speed.

With incandescent lights, there must be at least 3 bulbs (these lights are not as good, flourescent is way-better, you will see 3 "dots" on each ball). Aim the outside dot (reflection) to the center dot (reflection).

The reflection does move from one ball to the other, but it doesn't matter. The closer you are to the center, the higher on the ball the reflection - the farther you are from center, the lower the reflection. It's a self-correcting system, but once again, the light MUST be center above the table. Yes, if the CB is dead-center and the OB is against the rail, the CB reflection is on top and the OB is closer to the equator. Doesn't matter, Pat.

I respect some of your posts, because you like to map out the geometric proofs to dis-prove some horse-shit rumors that float around. Before you blast it---- go to your table and try it and then report back I wouldn't post bad information, trust me. Once again, the lights must be hanging dead-center above the table. I'm not a math genius, I would guess the proof for that is advanced because of the geometry of the curvature of the ball, versus its relation to the light. I make my proof on "does the ball go" vs. how to carry the 1 and proving angles congruent, etc.

True story: I'm in China right now and showed a snooker club owner that system (because of this thread) and he was so elated for the knowledge he said (through an interpreter) I never have to pay for table time in his club (this is earlier yesterday). Connect the dots, pocket speed the ball, ball goes. Have fun.

Dave

I still don't buy it, but maybe I haven't given the idea a fair shake. I'll look into it more before commenting again.

pj
chgo

 

[Bob Jewett]

... I'll try again:

With flourescent lights, you will see a "bar" of light on each ball. With the banking system I described above, you aim the end of the bar on the CB to the "center" of the bar on the OB. All I do really is "connect the dots" visually and pull the trigger at pocket speed. ...

You still have not said enough to make sense of your system. I understand the "ends of the bars" and the corresponding dots from incandescents. But when you say that you aim the end of the bar on the cue ball to the center of the bar on the object ball, what do you mean? The obvious conclusion for someone who does geometry is that if you drew a line between the corresponding spots on the cue ball and object ball, that the cue stick when shooting through the center of the cue ball should be parallel to that line. Is that what you mean?

The reason I ask is that some here screw up something as simple as a description of a half-ball hit. I'd like to look at your system a little more, but I'm unwilling to do so without knowing what it is. Writing understandable technical descriptions is not easy.

And clearly there are many bank shots for which those two spots will not work, such as off the end rails. For which banks will your system work?

 

[SpiderWebComm]

You still have not said enough to make sense of your system. I understand the "ends of the bars" and the corresponding dots from incandescents. But when you say that you aim the end of the bar on the cue ball to the center of the bar on the object ball, what do you mean? The obvious conclusion for someone who does geometry is that if you drew a line between the corresponding spots on the cue ball and object ball, that the cue stick when shooting through the center of the cue ball should be parallel to that line. Is that what you mean?

The reason I ask is that some here screw up something as simple as a description of a half-ball hit. I'd like to look at your system a little more, but I'm unwilling to do so without knowing what it is. Writing understandable technical descriptions is not easy.

And clearly there are many bank shots for which those two spots will not work, such as off the end rails. For which banks will your system work?

It really only works for short-rail banks. I've heard of others that do it long rail, but I don't see how. What I mean by "end of the bar" to "center of the bar," I'm not aiming the center of the CB to anywhere. It's strange because you're aiming a point off-center to another target. The closest analogy I can think of is maybe Joe Tucker's aiming system (aiming by the numbers) in that his system contact-point-to-contact-point (and the contact point on the front side of the CB is never center unless it's a 0).

When I'm standing at the CB, I stare at the end of the bar on the CB I need to aim, and rotate around the CB until the end of the bar (visually) is at the center-point of the target bar. That's the line I address. I think I'm visually looking at an isosceles triangle - the end of the bar becomes the apex of the triangle, with the OB bar is the base (and I'm aiming at the center of the base).

MAN, I hope I'm describing this well. It's tough to explain without standing at the table with someone.

If anyone wants to swing by York, PA for a 30 second lesson come on down. By the way, it's not my system - I learned it from Hal. I don't think he would mind that I posted this-- someone else taught me a very similar reflection-banking-system YEARS ago, so I don't think this stuff is top secret. I think this a well-known system, and for some weird reason people either choose not to post or post bad info on purpose.

I can't answer your question for which banks it works for the short-rails. I've only use it as a reference, a second-check. I don't use it exclusively. I use it in correlation with another system (MUCH better ). When both systems are in check, I pull the trigger and it's pretty accurate. I'll see you at DCC in January and show you what I mean if this post doesn't make any sense.

Dave

 

[Bob Jewett]

It really only works for short-rail banks. ...

Do you mean "side rail"? (The short rails are at the ends of the table. The long rails are on the sides of the table.)

Usually people refer to such banks as "cross-corner" and "cross-side."

Are those the banks that you think the lights system might cover?

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Do you mean "side rail"? (The short rails are at the ends of the table. The long rails are on the sides of the table.)

Usually people refer to such banks as "cross-corner" and "cross-side."

Are those the banks that you think the lights system might cover?

Yes, Bob. My terminology is prob bad, but it's cross corner, cross side. If you aim for the side rail, you're not looking at a bar reflection right? I was trying to eliminate confusion, but I probably caused it. All you have to do is look at it on a table and you'll see what i mean. The reflection is either a bar .... which looks like a "(" rotated 90 degrees CW (for cross side/corner) or it'll look like a ( which, good luck using this system... way too tough (side-rail, straight-back banks). Not to be arrogant and not to disrespect you, but I don't think the system covers cross-side/corner banks, I know it does.... or at least a big % of them. I'm sure I could probably setup exceptions, but there are exceptions to everything in pool.

Edit: I gotta run, going sight-seeing in China. Bob, I would be shocked if you don't have a table in the basement-- go check it out

 

[Big C]

Max is awesome!

Old Max Olds once suggested to me to try shooting with the reflection off the lights. I respect Max's opinion because at one point in time he was one of the best players in San Diego (he's in his mid-late 80's now) so that method is known to be used. I tried using it for a while when I first started playing but it didn't work for me or maybe I didn't try using it long enough.

You can sometimes learn anything from anyone including league players. Sometimes you learn what not to do .

I'm so glad to hear that Max is still playing. The last time I saw him was 1993 just before I moved to TX. He was tough to beat in those days and I saw him take down Mike Defino and Louis on a few occasions in those Wed. night tournaments at CB's.

 

[desi2960]

if things are just right

this system will work only if the table is setting exactly north to south in the winter when the sun is fartherest north. the 3 bulb light has to be 34.675 inches above the table, using a 76 watt bulb in the center and 43 watt bulbs on each end. the cloth should be grey and the balls should have a very high polish on them. under these conditions, and if you have practiced very hard for many years you should be able to play quite good. thats the way i see it. chuck

 

[Snapshot9]

No, but

I do think that 'contact lenses' sometimes aid in aiming because of slight glare that reflects off the balls, more than normal eyesight. Sometimes, it seems as if everything is more vivid.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Patrick Johnson-Mellow out, it's alright to disargee but you don't need to be rude to other posters just because they don't see things your way.

Where have I been rude? For instance, I haven't called anybody out by name. And I use mine.

pj
chgo

 

[hilla_hilla]

I'm so glad to hear that Max is still playing. The last time I saw him was 1993 just before I moved to TX. He was tough to beat in those days and I saw him take down Mike Defino and Louis on a few occasions in those Wed. night tournaments at CB's.

Max can still play even with his age and Parkinsons! A few years ago he was still a threat to all the bar tournaments around town. Now-a-days, he still frequents College Billiards on the weekends. Sometimes he plays a little golf or one hole. Max is always very kind and gives good tips when he see's me actually attempt to practice, lol , but for me to practice is a rareity, lol .

 

[SpiderWebComm]

this system will work only if the table is setting exactly north to south in the winter when the sun is fartherest north. the 3 bulb light has to be 34.675 inches above the table, using a 76 watt bulb in the center and 43 watt bulbs on each end. the cloth should be grey and the balls should have a very high polish on them. under these conditions, and if you have practiced very hard for many years you should be able to play quite good. thats the way i see it. chuck

If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest guy around. I only mentioned the lights have to hang from the center, and must have more than 2 bulbs if they're incandescent lights (which it's tough to find tables with 2 of those lights anyways in the real world). There really weren't any stipulations beyond that. You don't have to practice this for years... I figured it out in about 2.8734 seconds. You might, though.

The funny thing is, if you just went to your local smoky tavern where they play "Friends in Low Places" over and over again and tried it what I said, you'd probably sh*t a brick. When people post information, I usually go see for myself first - and then blast

For me, that reflection system is like using a "cheat code" in an xbox game, or something to that effect. I can't wait to get to DCC Bank Tourney and "reflection" everyone to death. Wanna ignore strong knowledge? Perrrfect

 

[diller47]

If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest guy around. I only mentioned the lights have to hang from the center, and must have more than 2 bulbs if they're incandescent lights (which it's tough to find tables with 2 of those lights anyways in the real world). There really weren't any stipulations beyond that. You don't have to practice this for years... I figured it out in about 2.8734 seconds. You might, though.

The funny thing is, if you just went to your local smoky tavern where they play "Friends in Low Places" over and over again and tried it what I said, you'd probably sh*t a brick. When people post information, I usually go see for myself first - and then blast

For me, that reflection system is like using a "cheat code" in an xbox game, or something to that effect. I can't wait to get to DCC Bank Tourney and "reflection" everyone to death. Wanna ignore strong knowledge? Perrrfect

spiderman the way to get these people to believe
is
TO OFFER THEM INSTRTUCTIONS FOR A MERE 75$ AN HOUR .
i mean who would not believe you then lol.
as for me i know what you speak of and it does work
I play for fun and have for years and prolly had a few runs of 50 or more but to me its just a great game.
as for the lights you'd laugh hard if you saw my game room....light positions...i redid the room circa 1970 which had a bar and such so when i remodeled??? i left the[sunken] lights as the were .but i do have a ball cleaner,built with the help of this forum and and keep a high shine on the balls which really helps.
good luck in your upcoming bank tourny
diller

 

[SpiderWebComm]

spiderman the way to get these people to believe
is
TO OFFER THEM INSTRTUCTIONS FOR A MERE 75$ AN HOUR .
i mean who would not believe you then lol.
as for me i know what you speak of and it does work
I play for fun and have for years and prolly had a few runs of 50 or more but to me its just a great game.
as for the lights you'd laugh hard if you saw my game room....light positions...i redid the room circa 1970 which had a bar and such so when i remodeled??? i left the[sunken] lights as the were .but i do have a ball cleaner,built with the help of this forum and and keep a high shine on the balls which really helps.
good luck in your upcoming bank tourny
diller

I've never charged anyone anything and I've NEVER posted bad information on here

That reflection move is the nuts of the universe. Believe it.

 

[desi2960]

it was a joke

spiderman dont be so uptight, it was a joke, a laugh. the point i was trying to make is there are no silver bullets, no special cue, no special little trick that will make a you world champion. i have seen so many young players looking for that special something that will make them world beaters and its not there. a person has to practice, practice, practice, and then practice some more. sorry if i offended you. chuck starkey

 

[SpiderWebComm]

spiderman dont be so uptight, it was a joke, a laugh. the point i was trying to make is there are no silver bullets, no special cue, no special little trick that will make a you world champion. i have seen so many young players looking for that special something that will make them world beaters and its not there. a person has to practice, practice, practice, and then practice some more. sorry if i offended you. chuck starkey

No worries. I agree with what you're saying. Using reflections are REAL strong if conditions are right.... it's a silver-bullet with knowledge, that's for sure. The bottom line is, and it's a hard bottom-line.... you have to stroke straight. There are no silver bullets for stroking straight and executing.

 

[Matt90]

Thanks Seven

Originally Posted by seven
There is no doubt that aiming systems work.. but if you want to progress to something more than an intermediate player.. you should abandon aiming systems.. I tried...and practiced ( And when I say practiced..I mean PRACTICED. to the tune of a small fortune in table time) almost every aiming system known to man for the first 10 years of my pool playing. I was too hard headed to let them go.. Time and time again I would ask really good players how they aim.. they told me that they dont, they just know how to hit the ball. I do not deny that they helped me. but as soon as I let go of all the aiming systems... I saw a huge jump in my playing ability. I tend to belive that once you learn to pocket balls..you never forget. (just like riding a bike) what goes wrong is your stroke. I'm no efren..but I can hold my own against most. even though I dont shoot much pool anymore. (I play 3 cushion full time) yesteday I played pool for the first time in about 8 months.. I ran 4 racks of 9 ball,
put my cue away..and left. that proves to me that once you know how to pocket balls you never forget. After a certain amount of time...."its all in your stroke" IMHO

I started playing again about two years ago and cant for the life of me
get past a certian level anymore .I have watched every video and read
every book I can get my hands on .I have asked one guy at my local room
so many questions he probably thinks I am nuts !! I even took a two hour lesson with Earl (He never mentioned a aiming method come to think of it)
After reading this I am sure it is one of the best post and best advice to
a average player I have come across so far . I really think this is the one
thing that has been missing in my game since I started back .When I was
younger I had a natural feel for most shots .Now I go through a long list
of things in my mind when I play . I am throwing the list away and going
to just go play .Hope I can let it all go and just play .