Video/Commentary/Education

[Island Drive]

While working out this am, was thinking about the video production of golf, which in allot of respects parallels our game, I think there are some additions that the PGA does that could be helpful to our sport. Personally when I watch match play, of interest to me is two fold. First, the decisions players make in defense and kicking and sometimes pattern play, BUT another element I find equally as interesting is the players mechanics, stance, swing, grip and allot of other factors that each does relative to their playing style. When I watch the PGA your hear ALLOT from the announcers about swing, balance, and all the many variables that go along with shot execution, I NEVER see camera work delving into this aspect of play during billiard match play, I think it would help the sport and the average player elevate their game and create more interest all the way around.

 

[John Brumback]

While working out this am, was thinking about the video production of golf, which in allot of respects parallels our game, I think there are some additions that the PGA does that could be helpful to our sport. Personally when I watch match play, of interest to me is two fold. First, the decisions players make in defense and kicking and sometimes pattern play, BUT another element I find equally as interesting is the players mechanics, stance, swing, grip and allot of other factors that each does relative to their playing style. When I watch the PGA your hear ALLOT from the announcers about swing, balance, and all the many variables that go along with shot execution, I NEVER see camera work delving into this aspect of play during billiard match play, I think it would help the sport and the average player elevate their game and create more interest all the way around.

Hey there. Your right, I have thought the same thing. They need to get with the times.Look at what golf has done.I think there Is alot more they could be doing to make It more exciting and more instructional. Oh well..
Maybe someday. I'm a huge fan of watching golf too.I have always thought that golf would be the perfect sport for radio,also. John B.

 

[3kushn]

I agree 1000%
Here's what I wrote a while back.

"The camera men and editors should know the game.

My biggest complaint is the camera when watching matches. They always pan in to the OB or show only the bridge to CB as the shot is taken. We never see the stroke. I just looked at the "Monster Pool" thread and for crying out loud they have a camera inside the pocket. What am I supposed to learn from that. Gravity helps the ball drop?

Stated above, pool only interests pool players so that's the immediate market. This Forum is successful in a big way because its a learning tool. The way pool is displayed on TV there's very little to learn from watching other than who won the match and the score.

Upgrade the video crew is my suggestion. If something can be learned from watching maybe it could help grow the sport with new players."

 

[Scaramouche]

Watching the snooker Masters last week the commentators discussed the stroke of some players with replays.

One player was moving the rest as he was shooting.
One player raised his head slightly when shooting, and more when he is hitting harder.
One player managed to bring his cue hand inward to his body just as he was striking the ball.
Other players kept the body absolutely still when making difficult shots successfully.

If a similar analysis was tried on pool players the viewer would be served up a veritable smorgasbord of strokes

 

[Scott Lee]

Bill...The reason is because they don't know what good fundamentals are. In order for that to happen the announcers/commentators would need to be qualified instructors. Having someone like Randyg, myself, Stan Shuffet, Joe Tucker, or Blackjack commentating would very likely include those kinds of observations.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

While working out this am, was thinking about the video production of golf, which in allot of respects parallels our game, I think there are some additions that the PGA does that could be helpful to our sport. Personally when I watch match play, of interest to me is two fold. First, the decisions players make in defense and kicking and sometimes pattern play, BUT another element I find equally as interesting is the players mechanics, stance, swing, grip and allot of other factors that each does relative to their playing style. When I watch the PGA your hear ALLOT from the announcers about swing, balance, and all the many variables that go along with shot execution, I NEVER see camera work delving into this aspect of play during billiard match play, I think it would help the sport and the average player elevate their game and create more interest all the way around.

 

[MOJOE]

Well stated by several.. When I watch a pool match, whether on TV or the internet, my focus is often on the players setup, stroke, bridge, head position etc.. Unfortunately, there are very few shots where this is shown as I'd like to study it..

 

[pt109]

Slo-mo

I'd like to see full views from the side sometimes...
..and replayed slo-mo.
The wrist and fingers do some marvelous things on certain spin shots.
And also some slo-mo on the area between the bridge and end of
follow through.
Many players might be surprised what they find.

30 years ago a news photo of one of my power follow shots showed
several images of what my cue did.
I make my tip go up through the ball for high english.
The picture showed that my index finger on my bridge was straight up
at some point in the follow through and then came back to my thumb.
never knew I did that but the camera doesn't lie.

Dr Dave would be great at this.

 

[JCIN]

I think something like what you are talking about is a good idea. I do think it would show that a lot pros do it "wrong". It would be cool to see some of the motion tracking tech used in golf used in a pool match. Such as to see the final plain of the stroke. Of course you would have guys like Busty and Mike Davis who would make everyone confused.

 

[pt109]

I think something like what you are talking about is a good idea. I do think it would show that a lot pros do it "wrong". It would be cool to see some of the motion tracking tech used in golf used in a pool match. Such as to see the final plain of the stroke. Of course you would have guys like Busty and Mike Davis who would make everyone confused.

Schmitty wouldn't be too happy about his back stroke either.

 

[Bigtruck]

One box of chicken wings please and pump me some water while you're at it! :shocked:

There are many guys in golf that "do it" all wrong and make it work too. I have said many time that if I cover an event with SVB, my game goes up a ball for at least a week.

If if and butts where cherries and nuts..............

If the economy would pick up
If more people supported pool coverage (ppvs,purchases,etc.)
If we could justify camera crews
If we had the cool software

I truly believe that when the economy gets rolling again, we are gonna see some really awesome stuff in pool coverage.

Justin and those involved with TAR are always looking for ways to improve. Same with Pat Flemming and Jim Frederich and many others that are streaming. Bottom line keeps a lot of it from happening.

Ray

 

[geno]

I nominate this as your best post ever.

I agree 100%.

While working out this am, was thinking about the video production of golf, which in allot of respects parallels our game, I think there are some additions that the PGA does that could be helpful to our sport. Personally when I watch match play, of interest to me is two fold. First, the decisions players make in defense and kicking and sometimes pattern play, BUT another element I find equally as interesting is the players mechanics, stance, swing, grip and allot of other factors that each does relative to their playing style. When I watch the PGA your hear ALLOT from the announcers about swing, balance, and all the many variables that go along with shot execution, I NEVER see camera work delving into this aspect of play during billiard match play, I think it would help the sport and the average player elevate their game and create more interest all the way around.

 

[Scott Lee]

Justin...You're exactly right...which is why good instructors always talk about what improvements a student CAN make, in their own process; vs trying to copy some pro's "bad habits" (which they have likely spent years honing and modifying). We know you can try to figure out things on your own, but we're trying to short circuit that long path of 'trial & error', by simplifying what is an easy process to adapt to (for a lot of poolplayers), and utilize something that is both measurable and repeatable. You can't fix what you don't know about, and you can't fix what you can't measure!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I think something like what you are talking about is a good idea. I do think it would show that a lot pros do it "wrong". It would be cool to see some of the motion tracking tech used in golf used in a pool match. Such as to see the final plain of the stroke. Of course you would have guys like Busty and Mike Davis who would make everyone confused.

 

[Scaramouche]

Major snooker tournaments with long races have a 15 minute tea break after the first four frames.

Commentators pontificate on what would otherwise be dead air.

Some players deprive themselves of tea and hit the practice table instead.
There have been surprising turnarounds in matches after such breaks in play.

Just passing these tidbits along in case modification of pool tournament format is considered.

 

[John Brumback]

I think something like what you are talking about is a good idea. I do think it would show that a lot pros do it "wrong". It would be cool to see some of the motion tracking tech used in golf used in a pool match. Such as to see the final plain of the stroke. Of course you would have guys like Busty and Mike Davis who would make everyone confused.

That's A good Idea! I like that.Talk about confusing??lol. I was thinking about the tracking tech also. Somebody tell em about OUR Ideas.JB

 

[silvr rcr]

Commentary with pool is so very different than other sports, golf may be a great comparison though.
A problem with talking about one's mechanics is that lots of people are going to have their own opinion on mechanics and such, theres no defined 'right way' to do anything, even if something may be widely recognized, its still arguable, especially with pool, because everyone can say their way is best. from a commentator standpoint, I try to give my thoughts on the position play and such, just like someone said above, to battle dead air, but there are certain areas I think most commentators probably agree on, just arent worth talking about.
if you mention something about how earl stands and strokes and talk about the 'right way' to do it, whether earl is doing it right or wrong, theres going to be some joe out there that says 'thats not right, that guy's an idiot and doesnt know what he's talking about'.
he goes and tells 5 or 10 of his friends and even though they heard nothing you actually said, theyre now operating that youre an idiot and dont know what youre talking about, even though they should form their own opinion, by watching your stream and listening to your commentary. unfortunately society hasnt built everyone to do that; and even when they do watch your stream to form their own opinion, theyre doing so with the thought of what their buddy said of how much of an idiot you are and now thats all they look for, not what good you bring to the stream by putting in your time and hard work, all the while, you have no idea that any of this is going on, but the more it grows, the fewer viewers you get and the less attention the sport gets.

off on a bit of a rant there i guess, but the whole thought there sort of came after discussing actors and movies a few days ago with a friend, but the idea applies here also.

so now if you limit the arguable points in your commentary, there are fewer things to cause some sort of controversy that cause a negative impact on you, your stream, the tournaments you attend and over all, the sport.

 

[Island Drive]

Justin...You're exactly right...which is why good instructors always talk about what improvements a student CAN make, in their own process; vs trying to copy some pro's "bad habits" (which they have likely spent years honing and modifying). We know you can try to figure out things on your own, but we're trying to short circuit that long path of 'trial & error', by simplifying what is an easy process to adapt to (for a lot of poolplayers), and utilize something that is both measurable and repeatable. You can't fix what you don't know about, and you can't fix what you can't measure!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Why not contact local instructors in the area of the tournament, have a handful of them do a demo voice over of a prior match that would be supplied by the person doing the live stream to see how they do. For a second opinion do and audio/video stream here on AZ and get input from the people who visit this web site and vote/comment on it, kinda like the gals trying to choose there team name. But you'd first have to show allot more moving parts of the players in the match than what's currently being shown.

On another note, WHY does it HAVE to be instructors it could be just very good player who understand basic fundamentals and points out what this player is doing? I question that the PGA has an instructor at every event on microphone. The video production can show various things a player is doing to accomplish his goal without constantly teaching, it can more explaining what they are doing, like showing there grip hand, and there approach to the shot etc. I find it annoying to always hear what they are going to do next, its ever worse when they don't use a teleprompter properly. A simple thing would be put a tick mark (') at the ball they are shooting, and a dbl tick at their next shot ('') and (''') their third shot, players always are thinking at least 3 balls ahead, keep it simple and point out this basic concept to the audience.

 

[Scott Lee]

I would agree with this idea. As far as the PGA, they always have a t.v. guy commentator, and a pro player commentator in the booth. The tv guy is there to talk about the player, and the pro is there to talk about technique, strategy, etc. In pool there are generally pro players commentating, but they usually make no mention of techniques, other than "this is what I would do" with a telestrator pen (if they have one). There are lots of ways to do anything. IMO, they should talk about them all, and then wait and see what the player on the table actually does.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Why not contact local instructors in the area of the tournament, have a handful of them do a demo voice over of a prior match that would be supplied by the person doing the live stream to see how they do. For a second opinion do and audio/video stream here on AZ and get input from the people who visit this web site and vote/comment on it, kinda like the gals trying to choose there team name. But you'd first have to show allot more moving parts of the players in the match than what's currently being shown.

On another note, WHY does it HAVE to be instructors it could be just very good player who understand basic fundamentals and points out what this player is doing? I question that the PGA has an instructor at every event on microphone. The video production can show various things a player is doing to accomplish his goal without constantly teaching, it can more explaining what they are doing, like showing there grip hand, and there approach to the shot etc. I find it annoying to always hear what they are going to do next, its ever worse when they don't use a teleprompter properly. A simple thing would be put a tick mark (') at the ball they are shooting, and a dbl tick at their next shot ('') and (''') their third shot, players always are thinking at least 3 balls ahead, keep it simple and point out this basic concept to the audience.