Was Einstein Right About 6 Million Shots on a Pool Table?

[Pidge]

How much of the ball contacts the surface when stationary? A couple of mm, for example. If you know this you can start calculating. How many times can this area fit on the playing surface of the table without overlapping? Multiply this by 2 to take into account the object ball and cue ball and it becomes crazy numbers. And that's just to pocket one ball. This doesn't take into account the areas stationary balls overlapping.

What did Einstein mean by the 6 million shots? Are there 6M possible stationary resting places for a cue ball, including balls that overlap almost fully? That sounds more reasonable. If so the actual number of possible shots in say a game of 8 ball would be far greater than 6M. Someone with a lot more brain power and time than me needs to try figure it out.

My logic is probably way off...its late. :-(

 

[ENGLISH!]

It started out as fun, then I decided to prove to myself whether Einstein was right or wrong. It took me all night, and finally proved that Einstein was indeed correct. Amazingly there are exactly 6 million possible shots when you factor the following:

1) All Distances between the Cue Ball and Object Ball (squared) X Every Possible shot speed (squared) X Every Conceivable "Tip Target" (where the cue contacts the cue ball) (squared) X Every Possible cue elevation (rounded {and squared} to the tenth degree)

No matter how I arrange the results from these calculations they always equal 6,000,000 - and what's really strange is it's the exact same number in Billiards. Also, I had to use a firm, controlled grip - with a "loose grip" with a "long follow through" shoots the number up to 60,000,000 - interesting, very, very interesting.

How could Einstein have possibly known? Was he secretly a world class pool player? Did his pool playing abilities factor into his Theory of Relativity?

Hi CJ

Would TOI still work on that table?

Best,
Rick

 

[CJ Wiley]

compare pool shots to the numerous notes in a Beethoven Symphony.

There are a LOT of conceivable shots on a pool table - the human mind is more than capable of processing them instantly - however, there must be an organized formula.

It's a bit overwhelming unless you compare pool shots to the numerous notes in a Beethoven Symphony. Even the most sophisticated symphony can be broken down mathematically, and simplified for the experienced ear.

What makes the number of shots and notes recognizable in our minds is how we subconsciously process, organize, and react. The more we are exposed to this "barrage" of information, the more apt we are to organizing more effectively.

When players talk about HAMB being useful (hitting a million balls) they are confused because "hitting a million pool balls," would be like "hitting a million piano keys," it doesn't do any good unless organized in a way that teaches clearly the themes and variations......and yes, the game is the teacher.

.

Geez, as of now I only have to learn 5,999,999 more shots, unless the number changes.
With a loose grip I see I have more work to do. Thanks for putting in the effort.

 

[ShootingArts]

When it really gets confusing . . .

Hi CJ

Would TOI still work on that table?

Best,
Rick

Is when you take away a pocket. I have heard of boat races but how would you like to agree to a high dollar match on somebody's home table and find this?

Hu

 

[alstl]

The number of shots has nothing to do with position of the two balls. It has everything to do with the angle between the cue ball and the object ball, measured as the angle between two vectors - starting point of CB to contact with OB, and from contact with OB to pocket (or a cushion intermediate to a pocketing)..

I theorize there are only 45 basic different shots in pool, the rest are just mirror images, or different distances of those same shots, or affects of OB throw caused by dirt or spin on the CB. Longer distance shots make execution of the base 45 shots more difficult, but do not change the shots themselves.

The things that add to the base 45 is spin and dirt. By calculating how many degrees off-angle spin or dirt can and will throw an OB, one can estimate how many variations there are to each of the 45 basic shots.

Call it 1.0, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, and 2 tips of English available. Throw out high or low since they do not change the OB direction. Throw out either Left or Right since one is just a mirror of the other. That leaves 5 different English affects to the OB.

As for dirt, the amount the OB gets thrown is not infinite, since in no case are there infinite angles to a pocket - because in every case a range of angles will get the OB into the hole. Let's assume 1 degree of difference per shot, so given the longest shot needs to be within 1 degree of accuracy to be pocketed, the dirt on a ball falls into the 'either/or' category, as in off/on or yes/no. Either the balls are dirty and affect play enough to miss a shot, or they are not. The number to represent that is 2.

45 basic shot angles, 5 basic spin conditions, 2 basic conditions of dirty/clean, gives just 675 shots in pool. Don't forget your shaft may deflect and not put CB at the right contact point on the OB, but that does not make a difference in the number of shots to master.

675 shots. Master them, and you rule the pool world.

I thought everyone knew this.

Help me out her, I'm just an old country guy. Doesn't the position of the two balls determine the angle?

 

[SmoothStroke]

I'm partial to the Left Handed Concerto, composed by Maurice Ravel.
Very interesting piece, Tripartite Structure, a little diferent and outside the box of your everyday composers.
It's just like playing pool one handed.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Why should that ruin his Christmas? He has stated numerous times that he believes there are 4000 shots to be learned, not millions. Why not also state that we have ruined Einsteins Christmas, since he said there are only millions of shots? (I think the number he used was 6 million) Why do you have to read things into posts that aren't there??

Read your last sentence back to yourself. I can only presume you're completely mullered on eggnog.

 

[RRfireblade]

Einstein said there were over 6 Million possible shots on a pool table, do you believe this is fact, or another example of urban legend?

If it hasn't been said yet, first you have to define a "shot".

6 million? Only if you're factoring in every possibly permutation of distance, angle, speed and spin for a given target, times six. Even then, there is still tons of rudanancy.

 

[(((Satori)))]

Given enough time I'm sure we can figure this out.

 

[shakes]

It started out as fun, then I decided to prove to myself whether Einstein was right or wrong. It took me all night, and finally proved that Einstein was indeed correct. Amazingly there are exactly 6 million possible shots when you factor the following:

1) All Distances between the Cue Ball and Object Ball (squared) X Every Possible shot speed (squared) X Every Conceivable "Tip Target" (where the cue contacts the cue ball) (squared) X Every Possible cue elevation (rounded {and squared} to the tenth degree)

No matter how I arrange the results from these calculations they always equal 6,000,000 - and what's really strange is it's the exact same number in Billiards. Also, I had to use a firm, controlled grip - with a "loose grip" with a "long follow through" shoots the number up to 60,000,000 - interesting, very, very interesting.

How could Einstein have possibly known? Was he secretly a world class pool player? Did his pool playing abilities factor into his Theory of Relativity?

I'm going to assume that you're being facetious since when I plug in 10 cue ball distances (SUPER conservative number)squared * 5 possible shot speeds (again... VERY conservative number) squared * 9 possible tip targets (again.... well you get the picture) * 5 possible cue elevations squared I get over 5 million.

My formula would be more evaluating contact points. Speed, spin, squirt, etc, are just variables much like wind and distance are in shooting a gun. When you're sighting in a scope, you're reading lead and wind as variables to your contact point, but the contact point comes up again and again.

So how many contact points are there? Well this depends on 2 things as I see it. Possible distance traveled and size of the pocket. There is going to be some variability from side to side and still make it in the pocket, diminishing as your distance of travel increases. For other shots such as safeties, the room for error is greater, so these do not need to be evaluated (IMO).

If you take 4.5" pockets, 2.25" balls and assuming that anything over the 4.5" line is a miss, then you can break down the amount of accuracy that is necessary over different distance shots.

This allows for 1.125" of variance to either side (except for the 90* cuts. variance is allowable on only one side as the other side you would miss the entire ball):
@12" you have

Allowable variance: + or -5.36*
Number of aim points to encompass 180* of shots: 16.8 or 17

There is a direct linear relationship such that at 120" (or 10') you have:

Allowable variance: + or - .537*
Number of aim points to encompass 180* of shots: 167.5 or 168.

When you consider bank shots this number would increase as well since your accuracy would need to increase. However, when you consider that most of the harsh cutting angles can be thrown out since you can't hit a ball hard enough at 75+ degrees to travel 18 feet, I would wager that you are looking at less than 300 contact points total.

 

[book collector]

Einstein was wrong about so many other things , how could he possibly get this right?

 

[seven_7days]

Does this mean there are 12 billion shots on a snooker table?



Sorry, those 4 years I spent in the 12th grade isn't helping right now.

 

[MiscueBlues]

There's really only one shot, it's the one you shoot with a cue stick. Get that one down and you'll be a champion.

 

[CJ Wiley]

as a matter of fact most shots won't be headed for a pocket.

Squirt shouldn't apply to the calculations because it's a result of a your cue ball targeting, combined with cue speed and angle.

Contact points won't enter in because we're just creating angles with different speeds.....they aren't necessarily intended for the pocket, as a matter of fact most shots won't be headed for a pocket.

I'm going to assume that you're being facetious since when I plug in 10 cue ball distances (SUPER conservative number)squared * 5 possible shot speeds (again... VERY conservative number) squared * 9 possible tip targets (again.... well you get the picture) * 5 possible cue elevations squared I get over 5 million.

My formula would be more evaluating contact points. Speed, spin, squirt, etc, are just variables much like wind and distance are in shooting a gun. When you're sighting in a scope, you're reading lead and wind as variables to your contact point, but the contact point comes up again and again.

So how many contact points are there? Well this depends on 2 things as I see it. Possible distance traveled and size of the pocket. There is going to be some variability from side to side and still make it in the pocket, diminishing as your distance of travel increases. For other shots such as safeties, the room for error is greater, so these do not need to be evaluated (IMO).

If you take 4.5" pockets, 2.25" balls and assuming that anything over the 4.5" line is a miss, then you can break down the amount of accuracy that is necessary over different distance shots.

This allows for 1.125" of variance to either side (except for the 90* cuts. variance is allowable on only one side as the other side you would miss the entire ball):
@12" you have

Allowable variance: + or -5.36*
Number of aim points to encompass 180* of shots: 16.8 or 17

There is a direct linear relationship such that at 120" (or 10') you have:

Allowable variance: + or - .537*
Number of aim points to encompass 180* of shots: 167.5 or 168.

When you consider bank shots this number would increase as well since your accuracy would need to increase. However, when you consider that most of the harsh cutting angles can be thrown out since you can't hit a ball hard enough at 75+ degrees to travel 18 feet, I would wager that you are looking at less than 300 contact points total.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Is when you take away a pocket. I have heard of boat races but how would you like to agree to a high dollar match on somebody's home table and find this?

Hu

Hey,

At least these two have pockets not like the one Fast Eddie walked in on in Kentucky.

I would say more but I'm not allowed to do so.

Best to Y'a,
Rick

 

[naji]

The number of shots has nothing to do with position of the two balls. It has everything to do with the angle between the cue ball and the object ball, measured as the angle between two vectors - starting point of CB to contact with OB, and from contact with OB to pocket (or a cushion intermediate to a pocketing)..

I theorize there are only 45 basic different shots in pool, the rest are just mirror images, or different distances of those same shots, or affects of OB throw caused by dirt or spin on the CB. Longer distance shots make execution of the base 45 shots more difficult, but do not change the shots themselves.

The things that add to the base 45 is spin and dirt. By calculating how many degrees off-angle spin or dirt can and will throw an OB, one can estimate how many variations there are to each of the 45 basic shots.

Call it 1.0, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, and 2 tips of English available. Throw out high or low since they do not change the OB direction. Throw out either Left or Right since one is just a mirror of the other. That leaves 5 different English affects to the OB.

As for dirt, the amount the OB gets thrown is not infinite, since in no case are there infinite angles to a pocket - because in every case a range of angles will get the OB into the hole. Let's assume 1 degree of difference per shot, so given the longest shot needs to be within 1 degree of accuracy to be pocketed, the dirt on a ball falls into the 'either/or' category, as in off/on or yes/no. Either the balls are dirty and affect play enough to miss a shot, or they are not. The number to represent that is 2.

45 basic shot angles, 5 basic spin conditions, 2 basic conditions of dirty/clean, gives just 675 shots in pool. Don't forget your shaft may deflect and not put CB at the right contact point on the OB, but that does not make a difference in the number of shots to master.

675 shots. Master them, and you rule the pool world.

I thought everyone knew this.

I was like you thinking it is about 700 possibilities, until i learned the advance knowledge and secrets; then you will count 4000 shots possibilities.

 

[naji]

One can easily say there are millions of shots on a pool table, or there is only one shot. That one shot being the one you are faced with when it is your turn at the table.

Or, one could take Naji route, and state that there are 4,000 shots to be learned.????

Thanks Neil, to be reasonable, rather than counting every 1/4" between CB & OB , it is appropriate estimation to go with 6" separation, with all shooting variations , i added up to about 4000 shots possibilities. To be on the top, a player has to be able to know and think every shot scenario, and execute it well. Unfortunately i got too much work and travel preventing me to continue with my DVD/Pay per view On-line training segments project; hope one day who knows.

 

[lost]

And yet because pool is played is played indoors on a level table for a "playing surface", and played essentially in only 2 dimensions with the balls starting out stationary....it's really the sport with one of the smallest number of "possible" shots and outcomes isn't it? I'd say quite a bit less than even Ping Pong where the ball is in constant motion...which of course is also played indoors on a table, but at least is truly 3 dimensional with a constantly moving ball that arguably never presents exactly the same shot.

 

[ShootingArts]

only one shot

There is only one shot in pool, everything else is just a variation of that shot.

So long CJ, seeya in the hereafter!

Hu

 

[Old Nine Baller]

For my contribution to one of the most inane threads ever posted here (but we must keep CJ's name on the 1st page) I'll say this; I've always heard, for many years, that there are 54 quadrillion possible shots on a pool table.

ONB