Was I wrong for not telling my opponent he's shooting the wrong ball?!?!

[DogsPlayingPool]

Sharking and unsportsmanlike conduct are inherently intentional. If the other guy was lining up for the wrong ball and the OP told him about it, in no way could that be percieved as unsportsmanlike play by a 3rd party. Just being percieved by his opponent as sharking is not unsportsman-like and if he is accused of sharking, that is his opponent's problem, not his.

I see your point but sometimes intentions don't matter. Your sitting there and just as your opponent is about to pull the trigger you accidentally drop your cue and he misses. Since you didn't do it intentionally, do you maintain you didn't shark him? Unintentional, but a shark nonetheless.

At league night I always try to be considerate of those around me. But once I walked by a nearby table right in the player's line of sight as he pulled the trigger and he missed. Went up to him after, apologized profusely and offered to buy him a drink. Of course I didn't do it on purpose and in fact he said he hadn't even seen me. But I still felt bad about it snd bought him a drink anyway.

Yes, if your opponent was indeed about to shoot at the wrong ball and you say something, that exhibits good sportsmanship. Of course. But if he wasn't going going to do that and was simply looking over his next shot or whatever, you've now inserted yourself into his process and disrupted his rhythm while he has the table. Whether intentional or not you just sharked him.

I was at the US Open 10 Ball and noticed how players rarely applaud when an opponent makes a good shot or runs out, even when a good portion of the crowd does. I asked one of them if this was because they didn't want to show their opponent any respect, give them confidence, or some other gamesmanship thing and he said no. The reason is because they don't want to do anything that may inadvertently shark their opponent as in break their concentration or focus, in the interest of sportsmanship. Doesn't matter if everyone else in the place is clapping. It is a show of respect to sit still no matter what your opponent does at the table.

I guess what I'm saying is I see both sides. If you are absolutely sure your opponent is about to commit a foul and you warn him obviously that is on the interest of sportsmanship. But the other side is equally valid. You may sit still and not say anything, also with good intentions.

 

[Masayoshi]

I see your point but sometimes intentions don't matter. Your sitting there and just as your opponent is about to pull the trigger you accidentally drop your cue and he misses. Since you didn't do it intentionally, do you maintain you didn't shark him? Unintentional, but a shark nonetheless.

At league night I always try to be considerate of those around me. But once I walked by a nearby table right in the player's line of sight as he pulled the trigger and he missed. Went up to him after, apologized profusely and offered to buy him a drink. Of course I didn't do it on purpose and in fact he said he hadn't even seen me. But I still felt bad about it snd bought him a drink anyway.

Yes, if your opponent was indeed about to shoot at the wrong ball and you say something, that exhibits good sportsmanship. Of course. But if he wasn't going going to do that and was simply looking over his next shot or whatever, you've now inserted yourself into his process and disrupted his rhythm while he has the table. Whether intentional or not you just sharked him.

I was at the US Open 10 Ball and noticed how players rarely applaud when an opponent makes a good shot or runs out, even when a good portion of the crowd does. I asked one of them if this was because they didn't want to show their opponent any respect, give them confidence, or some other gamesmanship thing and he said no. The reason is because they don't want to do anything that may inadvertently shark their opponent as in break their concentration or focus, in the interest of sportsmanship. Doesn't matter if everyone else in the place is clapping. It is a show of respect to sit still no matter what your opponent does at the table.

I guess what I'm saying is I see both sides. If you are absolutely sure your opponent is about to commit a foul and you warn him obviously that is on the interest of sportsmanship. But the other side is equally valid. You may sit still and not say anything, also with good intentions.

In that case, let me rephrase it to "intentional sharking" as I define sharking as something done intentionally to distract your opponent, while you define it as something that distracts your opponent. There is nothing unsportsmanlike or inherently wrong about "unintentional sharking". You might feel bad about it, especially if it was your carelessness that caused it, but there is nothing you can do about it as its already done and it is impossible to avoid every possible occurrence.

So what if I accidentally drop my cue in front of you while you are shooting? Are you going to ask for a do-over? In those cases, all you can do is deal with it because it is your problem that you got distracted by something that wasn't purposefully done to distract you.

"Intentional sharking" on the other hand IS unsportsmanlike because you are trying to use something unrelated to the game to gain an advantage in the game.

Its pretty easy to tell the difference between when a person is going to shoot a shot and when they are just looking. If they do happen to fool you and get down on the wrong shot just to look at it and you tell them about it, they are not about to shoot, so whats the big deal? Its good to keep talking between you and your opponent to a minimum, but if he accuses you of sharking or breaking their rhythm from something like that, you should ask him if he wants his pacifier before or after the shot because you did nothing wrong.

 

[Paul Schofield]

It is up to each player to know the rules, and if you gamble you damn sure better know them. You are not your opponent's keeper. It was his oversight and his foul. You did nothing wrong.

You are NOT obligated to help your opponent beat you, that would be kind of stupid, don't you think?

Joe Patterno could not have worded it better.

Joe went directly by the book. He did not understand that there is an unwritten higher standard. What got him fired keeps pool in the gutter.

 

[The Chinchilla]

'Chillin'.....I knew this was going to happen.

We're on the same page on this issue.:wave3::bow-down::yeah:

It was bound to happen sooner or later, just by sheer random chance

The real brain twister for me is what if it is a big money game... the 2 is there... the guy shoots the three... lines up to shoot the 4... then the 5.... hell, when he finally notices, you can say... bro, the 2 is there. Let him clean up a little. Ha.

 

[The Chinchilla]

Joe Patterno could not have worded it better.

Joe went directly by the book. He did not understand that there is an unwritten higher standard. What got him fired keeps pool in the gutter.

You are on the wrong side of many issues in this forum in my eyes. But here is why you are 100% wrong here:

You can't just assume that the guy isn't shooting at the wrong ball on purpose. You think you can, but you can't. What if it is some kind of tactical move, there is a tied up ball there, and he wants to kinda lull you into attacking in this way. Truth is, it doesn't matter the reason.... you are NOT supposed to bother a player that is about to shoot a ball. Period. It really is that simple.

 

[TheThaiger]

You are on the wrong side of many issues in this forum in my eyes. But here is why you are 100% wrong here:

You can't just assume that the guy isn't shooting at the wrong ball on purpose. You think you can, but you can't. What if it is some kind of tactical move, there is a tied up ball there, and he wants to kinda lull you into attacking in this way. Truth is, it doesn't matter the reason.... you are NOT supposed to bother a player that is about to shoot a ball. Period. It really is that simple.

What if someone had dropped their glasses on the table, or put a beer on it, out of eyesight of the shooter? What if a drunk was about to fall on the shooter - you say nothing then, right? His misfortune is your good luck, right?

Life's about balance and judgment. Many things cloud that balance and judgment - vanity, ego, and, especially, money.

It's always with the money.

 

[RShellhouse]

LOL Rick I didn't catch that one :thumbup:

This is great i'm finding out from all the posters who i'm going to
tell if they are going to foul (All the sportsman).
.

Heck Iggy....I know once that I even told you....lol..

 

[Mickey Qualls]

What if someone had dropped their glasses on the table, or put a beer on it, out of eyesight of the shooter? What if a drunk was about to fall on the shooter - you say nothing then, right? His misfortune is your good luck, right?

Life's about balance and judgment. Many things cloud that balance and judgment - vanity, ego, and, especially, money.

It's always with the money.

C'mon... There's a BIG difference between someone shooting the wrong ball versus the situations you've mentioned above...

In your above examples, I'd say something to the third party after asking my opponent to pause. "Hey, Bob. Hold on a second... Excuse me, sir, we're playing a game here, if you don't mind." or something along those lines. This way, I let my opponent know that I don't want to win based on outside interference. And I've already "taken my opponent's side" if the third party should have anything to say other than a brief apology.

Counting balls, though... That's on my opponent to know which ball he's shooting...

 

[the420trooper]

I've had opponents respond both ways to this particular inexplicable idiocy: One told me I'm about to shoot the wrong ball, the other let me make a mistake, feel like a dummy, and watch him win because I forgot how to count.

I learned something from one of those guys. No nonchalantin' at the pool table. (sailor)

Really, if you win a match after your opponent had to gently remind you that the three ball is still on the table, do you really feel like you deserved to win that match?

Say it with me: "Every time I have shot the wrong ball, it was ME who was responsible." Questioning someone's character because they allowed you to make a mistake is pretty weak, imo.

 

[TheThaiger]

C'mon... There's a BIG difference between someone shooting the wrong ball versus the situations you've mentioned above...

In your above examples, I'd say something to the third party after asking my opponent to pause. "Hey, Bob. Hold on a second... Excuse me, sir, we're playing a game here, if you don't mind." or something along those lines. This way, I let my opponent know that I don't want to win based on outside interference. And I've already "taken my opponent's side" if the third party should have anything to say other than a brief apology.

Counting balls, though... That's on my opponent to know which ball he's shooting...

It was merely a 'shades of grey' response to Chinny's assertion that you should NEVER interfere when your opponent is at the table.

 

[Island Drive]

You were right to not tell this person, if they treated you badly because you ''didn't tell'' em. The opposite holds true also.

 

[jersey jer]

im a nice guy.

i tell em one time and let em know if he does it again i wont and i will take the foul.

just be sure he is shooting the wrong ball, you dont wanna interupt him if he's right. (ive done that,....)

 

[Masayoshi]

You are on the wrong side of many issues in this forum in my eyes. But here is why you are 100% wrong here:

You can't just assume that the guy isn't shooting at the wrong ball on purpose. You think you can, but you can't. What if it is some kind of tactical move, there is a tied up ball there, and he wants to kinda lull you into attacking in this way. Truth is, it doesn't matter the reason.... you are NOT supposed to bother a player that is about to shoot a ball. Period. It really is that simple.

Why can't you? What advantage could the guy possibly gain by shooting the wrong ball on purpose? Baiting the OP into telling him he is shooting the wrong shot and then accuse him of sharking? Then what? That plan doesn't lead anywhere.

Even if he could somehow benefit from accusing his opponent of sharking, he could find much easier ways to accuse the OP rather than relying on some Gambit Roulette that according to the sample of posters on AZB wouldn't even work most of the time.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Why can't you? What advantage could the guy possibly gain by shooting the wrong ball on purpose? Baiting the OP into telling him he is shooting the wrong shot and then accuse him of sharking? Then what? That plan doesn't lead anywhere.

Even if he could somehow benefit from accusing his opponent of sharking, he could find much easier ways to accuse the OP rather than relying on some Gambit Roulette that according to the sample of posters on AZB wouldn't even work most of the time.

Problem is there is always the possibility your opponent is right and your wrong. He is in better position to see the balls. You need to be absolutely sure before you interrupt him. It all happens pretty fast and the natural instinct is to not disturb him. I mean your not even considering he may shoot at the wrong ball until he gets down on the shot and really looks like he will. Then you begin to go over the layout and situation in your mind and by the time you are even pretty sure what he's doing is a foul he's already pulled the trigger. It takes a while to overcome the natural instinct to sit still while your opponent is at the table and then it takes some time to overcome the disbelief. By then it is usually too late. This has happened to me as well as by me. I can tell you first hand it is still a surprise to the observer when it happens.

 

[alstl]

I really just need to vent about this. Tonight after league, i'm backing my friend against another league player i'm acquaintances with. My friend is giving him the 6 out in a race to 11 for $100 in 9 ball. I just wanted to see some good playing and apparently the spot was too heavy for my friend and ended up losing 7-11. So, I ask to adjust and maybe try the 7 out or something and the guy doesn't want to and says he'll play me with the 8 in a race to 9 for $100. I agree and am a little upset at this point because I just wanted to see a fair game with good playing but he won't adjust anything. So we start play and I take a 4-1 lead. Then he starts creeping up and I end up getting to the hill first at 8-5. I break, make 3 ball, and have a shot on the one. I make it then miss the 2 ball and he proceeds to his turn.

As he is shooting he makes 2 and continues to shoot the 5 ball and does not see the 4. After he hits the five, I tell him foul, and he goes, "Why?!". I tell him the 4 is on the table and then he starts saying that i'm a piece of shit because I didn't tell him. That if really didn't care about the money I would have told him, and just won't stop. Needless to say, this just pissed me off and I let it get to me and I can't shoot worth a dime anymore. We end up going hill hill and we end up quitting. In my 9 years of playing pool, I have never ever told someone they're shooting the wrong ball unless it's practice or if they are a beginner in a tournament. I would just like people's take on this. I rarely post about things, but this just irked me so bad. Thanks all for listening.

If you are going to let it get inside your head then you should tell him.

 

[Masayoshi]

Problem is there is always the possibility your opponent is right and your wrong. He is in better position to see the balls. You need to be absolutely sure before you interrupt him. It all happens pretty fast and the natural instinct is to not disturb him. I mean your not even considering he may shoot at the wrong ball until he gets down on the shot and really looks like he will. Then you begin to go over the layout and situation in your mind and by the time you are even pretty sure what he's doing is a foul he's already pulled the trigger. It takes a while to overcome the natural instinct to sit still while your opponent is at the table and then it takes some time to overcome the disbelief. By then it is usually too late. This has happened to me as well as by me. I can tell you first hand it is still a surprise to the observer when it happens.

If you are not sure that he was shooting the wrong ball before he shot or are confused as to what is going on as you just described, then there is no problem, same deal as if you weren't paying attention and he shot the wrong ball. But if you happen to realize that he is shooting the wrong shot and have the time to debate in your head whether or not you should tell him, that is when sportsmanship and the topic at hand comes into play, in which case you should tell him, but are not obligated to by any written rule.

 

[TheNewSharkster]

I don't think this is about sportsmanship. Sportsmanship would be when you commit a foul and call it on yourself. That would be good sportsmanship. Warning the opposing player before they make a mistake is not bad sportsmanship. In football does the team with the ball tell the other team when they are going to hike it so they don't go offsides?

 

[Banks]

I don't think this is about sportsmanship. Sportsmanship would be when you commit a foul and call it on yourself. That would be good sportsmanship. Warning the opposing player before they make a mistake is not bad sportsmanship. In football does the team with the ball tell the other team when they are going to hike it so they don't go offsides?

Yeah, I was thinking about it like that the other day..

"Psst.. I'm telling the pitcher to throw low and outside."

"Hey, don't shoot the ball, your basket is on the other side."

"Stop bumping me, because that's pass interference."

I just don't see it happening when something's riding on it or in a professional setting. (If anyone here sends out job bids, do you give your competitors suggestions?)

I've not paid attention in small tournaments before, missing a ball before the 8 or something.. if I had only looked at the table thoroughly, it wouldn't have happened.

 

[Ron Moore]

I had this happen to me last night in a tournament. I stopped my opponent before shooting out of turn. He thanked me profusely but mainly it made me feel better. Having a good reputation does have some value as well. You get to be an unpaid guest referee for one thing!

As an amateur, it is just about the love of competition; for professionals, well they need to eat, so any means necessary.

 

[bullshot]

It's not your place to keep him from screwing up, that's his job. some people are bringing in the term "sportsmanship" about not telling him he was about to make an obvious foul, but where exactly do we draw the line? say he has a shot lined dead straight in the pocket and you notice him playing straight top, is it also good sportsmanship to stop him and tell him he's going to follow the ball in for a scratch?