Waxing the cue ball? WTF is Kaci talking about now?

skogstokig said:
it is also kind of the euros and rest of the world ganging up on the filipinos.. we know there is a lot of shit talking and dislike of certain players like deluna and ignacio. and two ignacio controversies in two subsequent WC's, yada yada.. he seems to rub some players the wrong way. and then these things spreads to groupings of players, then to players from the philippines in general etc.

to think that chua, on the biggest stage he's ever been, in his biggest match ever and with all that exposure, would cheat is an incredible idea to me. he'd do that in front of hundreds of thousands of viewers? to think he'd cheat in the first place no matter the stage is a big step for me. he seems like a stand up, no bs kind of guy.
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I 100% agree. WHO does Chua need to cheat to beat???? Nobody!
 
sjm said:
I'm not sure that the subject of side gambling by a manager has any relevance here. We are debating the subject of intentionally compromising the equipment and how it should be dealt with.

On the other hand, you are right to bring up the money issue. If a batter loses just ten hits in a season because opposing pitchers doctored the ball, it can make millions of dollars of difference when that player's contract is up for renewal.

All in all, though, we are on the same side here. We see doctoring of the cue ball as a serious matter and want infractions to be severely penalized.
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It is exactly because of the gambling issue. Pool is highly tainted by the reputation around dirty gambling, probably more than any other sport, and it can destroy any chance the sport has to grow. These guys probably didn't learn to wax balls playing for fun.
 
The could just roll with it and silicone every cue ball from here on out. That is similar to what bowling does with oiling the lanes and balls. Would anyone watch bowling if there weren't strike after strike and hooking balls to make it funner to watch?
 
Badpenguin said:
The same reason Pete Rose got banned for life.

Baseball players are not playing for a shot at $250,000 every game they play, they get paid no matter the income. Not a great comparison really.
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Baseball pitchers are manipulating baseballs to increase their spin rates to get even fatter 9 figure contracts. In pool they want a slicker surface on the balls and in baseball they want to rough it up, very ironic. For pool they need to have multiple cueballs (switched out randomly and on request or after every game) and if anything is suspected they test the cueball and search the players case for evidence. They are likely only cheating when they are down because they don't want to risk getting caught which limits their future options!
 
I'm going to start to wax the balls too while I wait for my opponent.

Lets see how it works. I always arrive earlier than him so I will prep the balls.

The pool hall polishes their balls on Monday so the set will be clean.

What kind of stuff should I be using on the cue ball?
 
billiards_watch said:
Very similar to baseball.

The general public watch the game and not many know behind the scenes there are things like scuffing a baseball and pitches using vasoline and other compounds to affect the ball.

We're just now hearing it in pool. It could very well be a pool room secret and "if you know, you know" kind of things.
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When I first started playing (early 80s), there was an old war horse road hustler in our room that played really strong even in his mid 60s (still could run 80-100 balls). When the cueball was frozen to a ball and he needed it to not be frozen, he would bridge very close to the cueball pretending to get a better view to see if he could shoot away from the frozen ball. What he was really doing was pulling on the felt with his bridge fingers to separate the balls. Unless you knew he did that and was specifically watching really closely for it, you would never notice it. I heard he had dozens of little edge-getters like that he used when the opportunities came up.
 
fjk said:
When I first started playing (early 80s), there was an old war horse road hustler in our room that played really strong even in his mid 60s (still could run 80-100 balls). When the cueball was frozen to a ball and he needed it to not be frozen, he would bridge very close to the cueball pretending to get a better view to see if he could shoot away from the frozen ball. What he was really doing was pulling on the felt with his bridge fingers to separate the balls. Unless you knew he did that and was specifically watching really closely for it, you would never notice it. I heard he had dozens of little edge-getters like that he used when the opportunities came up.
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That's a good story. I will definitely keep this in mind.
 
Badpenguin said:
It is exactly because of the gambling issue. Pool is highly tainted by the reputation around dirty gambling, probably more than any other sport, and it can destroy any chance the sport has to grow. These guys probably didn't learn to wax balls playing for fun.
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Yes, that's a good point. The importance of in-game improprieties can be magnified when a sport already carries a tarnished reputation.
 
Badpenguin said:
It is exactly because of the gambling issue. Pool is highly tainted by the reputation around dirty gambling, probably more than any other sport, and it can destroy any chance the sport has to grow. These guys probably didn't learn to wax balls playing for fun.
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Exactly what do you mean by “dirty gambling”? Are you referring to cheating? Because gambling by itself isn’t inherently dirty. It is the cheating or manipulating outcomes that’s the issue. I’ve never actually heard the term “dirty gambling” used. Gambling hasn’t ruined any sport unless the participants themselves were involved in betting on the games or manipulating outcomes. Like in boxing, baseball, or even football scandals.
If you’re talking about people using silicone or other substances to gain an edge, that’s cheating and cheating is a separate issue from gambling altogether. Let’s not confuse playing for money with corrupting the game. Pool’s reputation doesn’t suffer because people bet on it. It suffers when unethical players cross the line, and others blur that line by lumping gambling and cheating together.
 
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fjk said:
... I heard he had dozens of little edge-getters like that he used when the opportunities came up.
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A local guy like that had some similar moves. One was a kind of push shot on the cue ball when it's frozen. He elevated about 45 degrees and came in slowly and then pushed the cue ball - he didn't stroke it.
 
T411 said:
Exactly what do you mean by “dirty gambling”? Are you referring to cheating? Because gambling by itself isn’t inherently dirty. It is the cheating or manipulating outcomes that’s the issue. I’ve never actually heard the term “dirty gambling” used. Gambling hasn’t ruined any sport unless the participants themselves were involved in betting on the games or manipulating outcomes. Like in boxing, baseball, or even football scandals.
If you’re talking about people using silicone or other substances to gain an edge, that’s cheating and cheating is a separate issue from gambling altogether. Let’s not confuse playing for money with corrupting the game. Pool’s reputation doesn’t suffer because people bet on it. It suffers when unethical players cross the line, and others blur that line by lumping gambling and cheating together.
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I think the point is that pool has a storied history of hustling, cheating, and just general shady characters - much of which is tied to the gambling culture.

Matchroom is trying to bring a level of professionalism to the game - it must clearly define what is crossing the line, and have a robust mechanism in place for enforcement.
 
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