We Get What We Deserve

[allen_jr]

My only specific comments would be that it doesn't take the resources of any particular military service to put on a good event enjoyed by the majority of attendees. Lots of folks -- civilians -- manage it every day. Also, to the best of my recollection *no one* said that you "corralled thousands of fans and players into a warehouse for our own personal profit or gain." And, my opinion, ignorant or otherwise, is that someone doesn't have to personally attend an event to comment on the *numerous* observations posted on this forum by credible members of the community. I think there are several threads on the subject (and a poll) while the "positive" thread posted a few days ago died a quick death. So I don't personally believe being a non-attendant invalidates opinion or comment -- this is discussion forum and all that. Lastly, as I've said a couple of times, this thread, while sparked by a recent event, was mostly a statement on pool events in general.

Udder than that, I guess everyone can wait until next year and see how it goes.

Lou Figueroa

Sorry for any confusion, I never said that you, or anyone, *said* those remarks, I merely stated that they were implied.

I agree, this is a discussion forum, and I am merely addressing the issues that have been discussed. I welcome any and all points of view, for if the show is going to continue to improve - as it has every year since 1993 (in my obviously biased opinion) then we need to know what people like and what they don't like.

I am also aware that in any PR situation, the naysayers will always speak louder and more often than those that are satisfied. I have been to many large public events: other trade shows, concerts, airshows, NFL games, baseball games, NASCAR races, etc... and I can honestly say that none of them are *perfect* - I have seen bathrooms with excessively long lines and filthy accomodations, concession stands with overpriced beer and food, and numerous other areas for improvement. Very few events run *perfect*. By any chance, were you at the first WSOP at the Rio? The bathroom situation was way, WAY, worse than you would have seen at the 2012 SBX - if you had been there. Compounded by the fact that poker tourneys have a designated break every 2 hours - so all players in the event would make a mad rush to the bathroom at the same time!

And yes, people griped about this. The Rio had (possibly) not considered this occurrence. And it went on for all 5-6 weeks of the events. And yes, I was there - for 4 of those weeks. What an outrage! Right? It was less than flawless, I'm surprised the WSOP is even still around.

I could go on with more examples, but I don't really feel the need. I believe most people know that events of this scale are never flawless. Very little in this world is flawless.

Again, sorry for any confusing implication that my post was directed at you, as it certainly was not. It was basically just a post sparked by recent posts on this forum, and pool forums in general.

 

[justadub]

Sorry for any confusion, I never said that you, or anyone, *said* those remarks, I merely stated that they were implied.

I agree, this is a discussion forum, and I am merely addressing the issues that have been discussed. I welcome any and all points of view, for if the show is going to continue to improve - as it has every year since 1993 (in my obviously biased opinion) then we need to know what people like and what they don't like.

I am also aware that in any PR situation, the naysayers will always speak louder and more often than those that are satisfied. I have been to many large public events: other trade shows, concerts, airshows, NFL games, baseball games, NASCAR races, etc... and I can honestly say that none of them are *perfect* - I have seen bathrooms with excessively long lines and filthy accomodations, concession stands with overpriced beer and food, and numerous other areas for improvement. Very few events run *perfect*. By any chance, were you at the first WSOP at the Rio? The bathroom situation was way, WAY, worse than you would have seen at the 2012 SBX - if you had been there. Compounded by the fact that poker tourneys have a designated break every 2 hours - so all players in the event would make a mad rush to the bathroom at the same time!

And yes, people griped about this. The Rio had (possibly) not considered this occurrence. And it went on for all 5-6 weeks of the events. And yes, I was there - for 4 of those weeks. What an outrage! Right? It was less than flawless, I'm surprised the WSOP is even still around.

I could go on with more examples, but I don't really feel the need. I believe most people know that events of this scale are never flawless. Very little in this world is flawless.

Again, sorry for any confusing implication that my post was directed at you, as it certainly was not. It was basically just a post sparked by recent posts on this forum, and pool forums in general.

Allen Jr., you are a class act, and you represent yourself, your father, and the SBE as a whole with class. I appreciate the tone and the patience you have demonstrated in your responses here. That is another indication why you folks have been successful.

Thanks for all that you folks do. And thank you for showing the restraint to not lower yourself to the level some others descend to in these threads. Again, classy. I predict continued success for the SBE.

 

[derangedhermit]

[...] what allowed us to bring in and set-up nearly 200 beautiful Diamond Barbox tables, several 4x9 pro event tables[...]

Were the "Diamond Barbox" tables what Diamond calls their Smart Tables? Were they all 7' tables?

I get the impression that the 7' table is replacing the 8' table in league and (amateur) tournament play. Is that impression generally accurate?

 

[obe1]

14.1

Sadly i did too

i initially said that pool doesn't deserve to be in the current state that it's in. Maybe i was wrong.

Consider the 14.1 fury cues pool challenge that was recently held. The top two finalists decided to split/chop the prize fund rather than duke it out. As a result, fury cues has decided to reevaluate their future sponsorships. I also made a donation to this event and have decided to no longer support future 14.1 events.

Sadly, maybe pool does deserve to be in the dog house.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

They were 7 foot tables.

Every amateur tourney I have been too used Diamond 7 foot tables.

Were the "Diamond Barbox" tables what Diamond calls their Smart Tables? Were they all 7' tables?

I get the impression that the 7' table is replacing the 8' table in league and (amateur) tournament play. Is that impression generally accurate?

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou,

Got to disagree on the "no one" comment. Read several posts on various threads on the SBE and several people essentially said Allen and company were "ripping" the players, exhibitors and visitors off . I vehemently disagree! It was not what we were used to but certainly acceptable. From my viewpoint, you DID have to be there to understand.

Lyn

oh, OK, CK. I thought he was trying to say that I said it or even someone in this thread said it. But yes, there are those aspersions in some of the other threads.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Sorry for any confusion, I never said that you, or anyone, *said* those remarks, I merely stated that they were implied.

I agree, this is a discussion forum, and I am merely addressing the issues that have been discussed. I welcome any and all points of view, for if the show is going to continue to improve - as it has every year since 1993 (in my obviously biased opinion) then we need to know what people like and what they don't like.

I am also aware that in any PR situation, the naysayers will always speak louder and more often than those that are satisfied. I have been to many large public events: other trade shows, concerts, airshows, NFL games, baseball games, NASCAR races, etc... and I can honestly say that none of them are *perfect* - I have seen bathrooms with excessively long lines and filthy accomodations, concession stands with overpriced beer and food, and numerous other areas for improvement. Very few events run *perfect*. By any chance, were you at the first WSOP at the Rio? The bathroom situation was way, WAY, worse than you would have seen at the 2012 SBX - if you had been there. Compounded by the fact that poker tourneys have a designated break every 2 hours - so all players in the event would make a mad rush to the bathroom at the same time!

And yes, people griped about this. The Rio had (possibly) not considered this occurrence. And it went on for all 5-6 weeks of the events. And yes, I was there - for 4 of those weeks. What an outrage! Right? It was less than flawless, I'm surprised the WSOP is even still around.

I could go on with more examples, but I don't really feel the need. I believe most people know that events of this scale are never flawless. Very little in this world is flawless.

Again, sorry for any confusing implication that my post was directed at you, as it certainly was not. It was basically just a post sparked by recent posts on this forum, and pool forums in general.

OK, we're good on the comment thingie.

And you're right, no event is flawless. But I don't think anyone is looking for flawless. I also don't think that because The Rio, or Caesars, or Harrah's goofs it gives anyone a free pass either. A goof is a goof. I personally believe that many of the issues mentioned in various threads could easily have been foreseen.

Good luck on next years event.

Lou Figueroa

 

[ignomirello]

Fail?

So you want some cute quotes...

Failing to plan is planning to fail....

It pays to plan ahead, it wasn't raining when Noah built the ark...

People who had to cart items didn't have your experience John, so there will be opinions different than yours, you really should learn to deal with that fact. The fact that you are seldom correct, and your opinion is not the end all of end alls...

Anyone who tried to enter and leave that facility with product knows what happened, and as Ron said in the other thread, its all going to be looked at.

JV

You can fail if you try, But if you fail to try then you Failed to the fullest.

People will always fail ! It's the people that keep getting up that has the better odds to survive

 

[smokey]

qbuuilder...

As for the military analogy, not even close. Being a veteran I can attest to the clusterf$cks troops deal with daily. Military is not immune to bureaucracy & idiots making bad decisions. Troops can make demands all they want but politicians ultimately make the decisions and it's rarely for the benefit of the troops. But the troops still serve. Why? Because they're idiots or second class citizens? Do they get what they deserve, too? Or maybe, just maybe, they do it because they love what they do? If you're going to compare military shows to billiard shows, then you must include the troops who are forced to work UNPAID overtime & weekends away from their families all just for a political smile, public relations, military image in the eyes of the public. It's bad enough they have to spend so much time away from family because of ridiculous political wars, but the time they have at home is spent being forced to kiss the public's ass so the general public tolerates the politics of the situation. Comparing it to billiard shows is way "off base", pun intended.

Nobody is arguing whether the show was lacking compared to years passed. But pool players "getting what they deserve" because they don't demand better, is a bit of a stretch. Go to the gas station & demand they give you gas for $1/gal. You'll get laughed at & will never see it. If you refuse to pay the going rate, you simply won't drive. Is that you getting what you deserve? The expo is what we got. You either go or you don't. Making demands will get you nowhere, nothing. We can discuss it endlessly with no reconciliation, no middle ground. It is what it is. Either be negative about it and refuse to go, or accept what you got & choose to be happy that you even have anything at all. The only other alternative is to step out and make it better by doing it yourself, which I do not see happening. *****ing about it & "demanding" better just wastes your time. You can't make Hopkins spend his money differently any more than I or anybody else can. All we can do is spend our own. The way I see it, I can spend a little & let him do the work while I enjoy it. Or I can spend a lot & do the work myself, hoping there will be a turn around on my time & money investment, knowing I may or may not lose my ass. I'll opt for spending a little with no risk and enjoy myself. Even if it's not everything I want, it's what I got.

thank you for your comment

to me, you said all and said it so well

all the best,
smokey

 

[Runnintable]

Were the "Diamond Barbox" tables what Diamond calls their Smart Tables? Were they all 7' tables?

I get the impression that the 7' table is replacing the 8' table in league and (amateur) tournament play. Is that impression generally accurate?

It's already happened.

 

[BradenK]

I cannot comment on SBE because I was not there, though I wish I would have been. Therefore, this post will be a little off of topic.

I want to comment on something Jason was writing about: pool and money.
In one week, we have our VNEA state tournament. Now, in order for me to profit from this event, I would need to win my singles division. And, we would need to win our team division. And, I would need to either not buy any beverages, or receive said beverages for free. And, I would not be able to eat.

I hear too many people complaining about how they cannot "get their money back" by going to the tournament. Boo Hoo.

I am not a pro. I have a job. I do not play pool to make money. I go to states to get some good competition, to socialize, and to have fun.

This attitude that a player should always walk away with a profit from any pool event is ridiculous, and it will be the death of pool. Pool is much bigger than the small world that pro players encompass, yet everyone expects to be paid. I donot understand, and am greatly disheartened, by this.

I personally think that anyone who picks up a pool cue and thinks "This will make me rich!" should make an appointment with someone holding numerous psychiatric degrees.

Sorry if I managed to hijack this thread.


Braden

 

[derangedhermit]

Thanks again to all of you who attended the 2012 Super Billiards Expo. Your support over the years has helped make the show the great event that it is for everyone involved. We will continue to listen to your feedback and work on making the show something that we can all love and enjoy!

Here's my feedback: Please come to Dallas/Fort Worth this fall! We'd love to have you, your Dad, and the 2012 Super Billiards Expo South. I'll do volunteer work, and I bet others would too.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

You can't make Hopkins spend his money differently any more than I or anybody else can. All we can do is spend our own. The way I see it, I can spend a little & let him do the work while I enjoy it. Or I can spend a lot & do the work myself, hoping there will be a turn around on my time & money investment, knowing I may or may not lose my ass. I'll opt for spending a little with no risk and enjoy myself. Even if it's not everything I want, it's what I got.

I agree almost completely with your post. However, are you sure there isn't a middle ground here? I mean, wouldn't it be a win win for everyone if people politely voiced their concerns to Allen? The whole point Lou was making is that they *didn't* think of enough possible problems for this type of event. So wouldn't it be a huge benefit to Allen to allow the thousands of other minds that attended to offer their feedback? I think a polite email or call to Allen pointing out some specific areas of potential improvement, and maybe even offering suggestions on *how* to accomplish those improvements could prove very helpful.

I overall enjoyed the Expo this year, even though I felt it fell far short of previous years. For me, the # 1 issue was the lack of connected hotel. This TOTALLY changed the whole vibe of the event. Based on all the Expos that have happened so far, I have to conclude that Allen is the type who wants to do a good job. I think the tournaments have been very well run, and overall the show puts many other amateur tournaments to shame. (Although the tourney has not gone as smoothly the last couple of years...Jerry and Nadine not there...wonder if that makes the difference). Anyway, the point is I have to believe that Allen would welcome and benefit feedback about the event, as anyone truly interested in improvement would. I think the phrase "we get what we deserve" sort of portrays an us vs. them mentality. I prefer to think of it as a team out for the same goal. We all want the best event possible, Allen included I'm sure. I see no reason why we can't *help* Allen make the event better?


KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

You gave me one warning long, long ago, and more recently, another alleged warning, though when I asked for specifics you did not provide any details.

About this discussion in general, I think it is a valid discussion. Specifically speaking, Sean's insult of my military service and subsequent taunt elicited an admittedly strong response from me. Some of us feel that way about honorably serving our country.

Lastly, I write a lot of good stuff on this forum, so your characterization that I'm "unhappy unless... rocking a boat" is grossly unfair.

Lou Figueroa

I would agree completely with these statements. I think Lou does contribute plenty of good stuff to this forum, and he seems like a pretty logical guy, which is rare. I would leave out the "stfu" in future posts though...its not nice

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I posted a quite lengthy explanation of several aspects of the 2012 Super Billiards Expo in another thread. I believe proper forum etiquette dictates that I don't re-post here, so I won't unless it is requested.

However, I would like to point out that the venue we chose is also deemed an adequate venue for the following industries/events:

- Delaware Valley Science Fair
- Advance Job Fair for Health Professionals
- The Hot Tub/Home Swim & Spa Expo
- Sugarloaf Crafts Festival
- Log & Timber Home Show
- Northeast Rod & Custom Car Show
- National Stamp Exhibition
- Builders Competition & Contractors Sale

So, apparently the venue is deemed suitable accommodations for other industries as well. Many, many trade show facilities are just like the Greater Philadelphia Expo Center - large open spaces suited for easy installation and removal of vendors and displays as well as housing thousands of guests.

No, the venue is not a grand ballroom. It is a massive space providing over 200,000 square feet of uninterrupted floorspace suitable for an event of this magnitude. The cost for vendors and participants is also much lower than if the event were housed in a grand ballroom type environment. The Open Amateur event was a $75 entry fee for a four day event, which paid $500 or more to everyone finishing in the top 64, which means you only had to win 4 matches. The venue was far from a dark and dirty warehouse as some would like to imply. Yes, there are exposed beams in the ceiling and visible garage bay type doors. Those same doors are what allowed us to bring in and set-up nearly 200 beautiful Diamond Barbox tables, several 4x9 pro event tables, seating for thousands of poolplayers, booth collateral for over 100 vendors occupying more than 150 booth spaces, and merchandise for a short period traversing over a 7 day span.

Yes, we ran into some unforeseen circumstances.

Are we perfect? No, No one is.

Do we expect everyone to be delighted with the changes? Of course not, there can never be 100% satisfaction.

Did we work hard in the hopes that everyone would still have a great time and that the vendors would be busy enough to make it worth their while? Absolutely.

Do we have the operating budget and manpower of the US military branches? I don't even feel this requires an answer. Or even an operating budget on par with any other national sporting association or trade organization? Not close. However, is the cost of admission or cost of exhibiting at our event even close to other national events of this sort the same? Nope. Exhibits at the PGA Expo start at nearly 3 times the cost of exhibiting at the Super Billiards Expo.

However, what we did do was try our hardest to provide an exciting and fun event for thousands of poolplayers, spectators, and fans of the game from around the world (yes, as of what we know, over at least 7 different countries were represented) to come and enjoy. In addition, we created a safe and profitable arena for vendors to showcase their products to the fans and spectators who want to see them. When we ran into obstacles, we did what we could to overcome them. The situations that could not be fixed immediately (such as bathroom availability) will be addressed and fixed for next year.

To imply that we merely corralled thousands of fans and players into a warehouse for our own personal profit or gain is a vast and inaccurate assertion. And to make this implication without actually being at the event is nothing more than an ignorant opinion.

Rest assured, we will make changes and improvements so that the new venue can be a great home for the show. If we feel that it can't be, we will find some place that can. Now that we have completely set-up and run the show, we can see what needs to be fixed and improved upon. And in the process, we provided a one-of-a-kind well-organized series of events for players on top quality equipment and a temporary robust marketplace for all types of vendors to a target market eager to see their wares.

Thanks again to all of you who attended the 2012 Super Billiards Expo. Your support over the years has helped make the show the great event that it is for everyone involved. We will continue to listen to your feedback and work on making the show something that we can all love and enjoy!

Allen,

The mere fact that you came into this thread and responded counts for quite a lot with me. I would love to offer you some feedback as a pool player who has attended the Expo for the last 7 years or so. Please tell me the best way to do that.

The one thing I can say...without an attached hotel, the event will never be the same. I hope there is a spot within 100 miles that could satisfy that requirement.

As I said in another post, I think we pool players can HELP you make it a better event, and that is what I would like to do.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Were the "Diamond Barbox" tables what Diamond calls their Smart Tables? Were they all 7' tables?

I get the impression that the 7' table is replacing the 8' table in league and (amateur) tournament play. Is that impression generally accurate?

Um...the 7' table has been the standard in league and amaeur play for 20 years. Never in the times of modern pool leagues had the 8' table been the norm.

KMRUNOUT

 

[allen_jr]

Allen,

The mere fact that you came into this thread and responded counts for quite a lot with me. I would love to offer you some feedback as a pool player who has attended the Expo for the last 7 years or so. Please tell me the best way to do that.

The one thing I can say...without an attached hotel, the event will never be the same. I hope there is a spot within 100 miles that could satisfy that requirement.

As I said in another post, I think we pool players can HELP you make it a better event, and that is what I would like to do.

KMRUNOUT

Hello, and thanks! Please feel free to share your feedback, positive or negative, with us. You can post it here, or better yet email us at info@superbilliardsexpo.com (this address sends a copy to me and dad simultaneously). I am not shy to have criticism posted here in public view, it's just easier for me to store and save in my email boxes - and I don't always have time to make it to the forums. Just don't want anyone to think we're "ducking" from criticism by asking for private email. You are also free to call anytime, the business line is (609)652-6116 and is answered by my father personally 95% of the time.


And yes, I agree that the lack of connecting hotel really takes away. We're all in the same boat on that one. Unfortunately, outside of casinos or much more expensive facilites, our options are limited. There are hidden costs the public doesn't see as well - such as venues that are controlled by unions. These venues make the move-in and set-up much more expensive and prohibitive for vendors. We have to consider these factors and how they come into play for everyone.

Furthermore, the GPEC (Greater Philadelphia Expo Center) promised us that they would have an attached hotel built and ready for 2013 before we agreed to move there. We felt one year would be OK without the hotel. Turns out, as is common in the business world, they sort of lied to us. Even worse, it makes us look like we lied by telling people that - which we did not intend to do. We believed them, but now realize we must be wary. They will have a new hotel ready - but it won't be attached. However, it is really close and would still be pretty convenient - although not as good as attached - and not what was promised. But, the venue is huge and does offer lots of opportunities for growth. We've done the show there once now, and we know some things to improve upon. Until we find a more suitable venue with similar characteristics, it will have to do.

Thanks again for the feedback, hope to hear more from you all.

 

[Eric.]

But a pool exhibition or tournament? Such a big event (sigh). And sometimes it’s the first time in a new venue (oh my). And afterwards we all can’t roll out the excuses for the promoter fast enough. Big event, new venue, the unexpected happened, they did the best they could, and on and on. Baloney. We put up with it. We go again the next year and nothing has changed. We get what we deserve.

Lou Figueroa

I cut out the excess fluff and clipped the real message.

Let me put the message in it's *proper* context and perspective; Lou Figueroa wasn't at SBE 2012.

It's all conjecture and speculation on his part.


Eric >from the peanut gallery

 

[Eric.]

Hello, and thanks! Please feel free to share your feedback, positive or negative, with us. You can post it here, or better yet email us at info@superbilliardsexpo.com (this address sends a copy to me and dad simultaneously). I am not shy to have criticism posted here in public view, it's just easier for me to store and save in my email boxes - and I don't always have time to make it to the forums. Just don't want anyone to think we're "ducking" from criticism by asking for private email. You are also free to call anytime, the business line is (609)652-6116 and is answered by my father personally 95% of the time.


.

Allen,

This is really the best way to go; being accessible to your customers. Those are two good ways of contacting you guys and I commend you for hearing it out and listening to the feedback.


Eric >18 year veteran of SBE

 

[lfigueroa]

I would agree completely with these statements. I think Lou does contribute plenty of good stuff to this forum, and he seems like a pretty logical guy, which is rare. I would leave out the "stfu" in future posts though...its not nice

KMRUNOUT

Thank you, KMRUNOUT.

You know, I've written/contributed a bunch of stuff on AZ over the last eight years and 4000 some odd posts, and while I know it ain't all pearls, to have a mod come out of the blue and totally disregard the entire body of what I've contributed to AZ and completely mischaracterized it is a bit surprising. Then again, maybe not. Anywhos, thank you for your nod.

Lou Figueroa
will be more careful
with STFU