We need to be careful

jackpot

jackpot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If pool ever became really popular around the world, and profitable for players and
equipment manufactures,etc., would it be the end of the custom cue ?. All other
games that I can think of that used wood for the equipment have gone with a man
made material. Major league baseball still use wood bats, for the tradition and safety,
not for performance. If the money was there, and the technology the way it is, it seems
that cues could be produced to perform better and more consistent. The LD shafts
are a big improvement for most players. With the REVO and BeCue, coming out
and getting some positive revues I could see how cues of man made material would
take the place of wood. What a shame that would be. I know that nothing feels as
good, makes the sound, or gives the feedback of wood. But nothing felt like a persimmon
driver either. If the performance is better nothing else will matter, not looks, not feel, not
workmanship, nothing. No other game or sport uses a true work of art, so highly prized
for its beauty alone. Many of these cues never even hit a ball. So I think that all cueing
games must be played with a cue that is made primarily of wood. Entering a pool room
tournament, bar, or any place with pool or billiard, etc tables should be a felony and
be punishable by 5 years in the jail for the first offence, death penalty for the second.
But with the way it's going I think we are okay.
jack
 
Nah, wood would never go away completely for cues.

I work in the bicycle industry and carbon fiber is far superior to other materials and has completely taken over the high end performance segment of the market. But...you can still get a custom made steel or titanium frame from a huge number of builders. They are appreciated not because they perform better but for the unique feel and intangible qualities they provide along with the ability for them to have custom geometry tailored specifically to the riders size and preferences.

I think cues would be the same. When/If we see a huge influx of techy cues using advanced materials I think they'll end up taking over the production cue world for sure but you will still have plenty of custom cue makers exercising their craft and artistry.
 
jackpot said:
If pool ever became really popular around the world, and profitable for players and
equipment manufactures,etc., would it be the end of the custom cue ?. All other
games that I can think of that used wood for the equipment have gone with a man
made material. Major league baseball still use wood bats, for the tradition and safety,
not for performance. If the money was there, and the technology the way it is, it seems
that cues could be produced to perform better and more consistent. The LD shafts
are a big improvement for most players. With the REVO and BeCue, coming out
and getting some positive revues I could see how cues of man made material would
take the place of wood. What a shame that would be. I know that nothing feels as
good, makes the sound, or gives the feedback of wood. But nothing felt like a persimmon
driver either. If the performance is better nothing else will matter, not looks, not feel, not
workmanship, nothing. No other game or sport uses a true work of art, so highly prized
for its beauty alone. Many of these cues never even hit a ball. So I think that all cueing
games must be played with a cue that is made primarily of wood. Entering a pool room
tournament, bar, or any place with pool or billiard, etc tables should be a felony and
be punishable by 5 years in the jail for the first offence, death penalty for the second.
But with the way it's going I think we are okay.
jack
Click to expand...
So I guess you're under the belief that the cue is more accurate than the Indian holding it.....Hmmm, self aiming cues....wouldn't that make everyone playing with one have the same Fargo rating?:thumbup:
 
No

realkingcobra said:
So I guess you're under the belief that the cue is more accurate than the Indian holding it.....Hmmm, self aiming cues....wouldn't that make everyone playing with one have the same Fargo rating?:thumbup:
Click to expand...

No, so are you one that thinks a pro can play the same with anything. Broom handle,
mop handle, handlebar, doesn't matter. Hmmm break cues, jump cues LD shafts
are not improvements? I Suppose the tennis rackets, golf clubs, etc. are also not
really improvements. Do you just have to hang on them and the make holes in ones or
serve an ace every time.
jack
 
jackpot said:
No, so are you one that thinks a pro can play the same with anything. Broom handle,
mop handle, handlebar, doesn't matter. Hmmm break cues, jump cues LD shafts
are not improvements? I Suppose the tennis rackets, golf clubs, etc. are also not
really improvements. Do you just have to hang on them and the make holes in ones or
serve an ace every time.
jack
Click to expand...

Pool isn't a power game. Composite materials have a deflection advantage, but that's only if you find deflection to be a major problem. There's little else that composite brings to the table, and tolerance for deflection is more a matter of taste and what you're used to, not a performance advantage per say.

In other sports, different materials have compmetely changed the game and offer real performance advantages...and yet, many golf pros still play with blades, or close to them.
 
I guess my point is that the average decent player already has more than enough power to do what he needs to do. It's not like golf or tennis where you NEVER really have enough power. Maybe when we get to the point that you can shrink a par 5 down to a pitch and putt, but until then the race is still on for more power.

Pool? Even playing 9-ball, I'm barely tickling the balls most of the time compared to what I can actually do. It's hard to see that anything is going to give me a real competitive edge, other than reducing reflection, but we already have cues with such a low amount of deflection that it may actually HARM your accuracy unless you have a dead, perfect stroke. And for guys like me that grew up with normal cues, trying to use a low deflection cue in just an exercise in frustration. It's not like club heads...when new generations of club heads come out, it universally makes the game easier for everyone.
 
Maybe There Is Room For a Design Improvement, ex. Baseball Bats

Innovations do happen. Just look at what's happened with a baseball bat design.

Mookie Betts & Dustin Pedroia started using a new bat handle design last year at
the suggestion of their hitting coach. Both players.had much above average results.

No more round handles for these guys.....Mookie hit 18 home runs in 2015 with a .291 avg ..812 slg.
In 2016, Mookie belted 31 hone runs, raised his average to .318 and .897 slugging. He had 77 RBI
using a traditional round handle wood bat in 2015 and 113 RBI this last season with his new bat.

Dustin Pedroia did the same thing as Mookie. Last season, Dustin batted .318 using the same new
bat style as Mookie and the year before ('15) he hit .291, and the year before that was .291 and the
prior year he hit .278. Dustin's RBI in 2016 was 74 and the year before, was 42 and the year prior, 53.

Both of these professional baseball players switched to swinging ax handle baseball bats, not a
round handle like other pro players use. The improvement results for both players were immediate
and very substantial too. For years, the baseball bat remained unchanged in its design until now.

Maybe something new will develop in pool cues by tweaking something that is taken for granted in
building a cue from scratch. In the meantime, it;s a sure bet that wood will remain the preferred choice
as the material for pool cues. Resonance & feel are critical considerations and wood is presently #1.



Matt B.
 
john coloccia said:
Pool isn't a power game. Composite materials have a deflection advantage, but that's only if you find deflection to be a major problem. There's little else that composite brings to the table, and tolerance for deflection is more a matter of taste and what you're used to, not a performance advantage per say.

In other sports, different materials have compmetely changed the game and offer real performance advantages...and yet, many golf pros still play with blades, or close to them.
Click to expand...

Sorry, composite materials have no deflection advantage.
 
not so much power

not so much the power but the consistency of the product plus the advantages
of no warp, no dings, weighting and so on. No two wood cues ever feel or play
the same no matter who the maker. There seem to be a lot of players who like
the REVO and I assume it was made to increase performance, I hope it was anyway'
Because if it for looks they really missed the boat. I don't care for the ultra LD shafts
either as I seem to have to aim to full with OS. I was just thinking of all games that
have used wood for the equipment in the past have changed to man made material
for more power, more consistency, etc. I didn't say II thought it would be a self aiming
cue. REVO is new and it will take a while for something like that to become accepted
even if it is better. It may turn out that pool is the only game in history that wood is
the best material to use for the equipment. I hope so.
jack
 
Bavafongoul said:
Innovations do happen. Just look at what's happened with a baseball bat design.

Mookie Betts & Dustin Pedroia started using a new bat handle design last year at
the suggestion of their hitting coach. Both players.had much above average results.

No more round handles for these guys.....Mookie hit 18 home runs in 2015 with a .291 avg ..812 slg.
In 2016, Mookie belted 31 hone runs, raised his average to .318 and .897 slugging. He had 77 RBI
using a traditional round handle wood bat in 2015 and 113 RBI this last season with his new bat.

Dustin Pedroia did the same thing as Mookie. Last season, Dustin batted .318 using the same new
bat style as Mookie and the year before ('15) he hit .291, and the year before that was .291 and the
prior year he hit .278. Dustin's RBI in 2016 was 74 and the year before, was 42 and the year prior, 53.

Both of these professional baseball players switched to swinging ax handle baseball bats, not a
round handle like other pro players use. The improvement results for both players were immediate
and very substantial too. For years, the baseball bat remained unchanged in its design until now.

Maybe something new will develop in pool cues by tweaking something that is taken for granted in
building a cue from scratch. In the meantime, it;s a sure bet that wood will remain the preferred choice
as the material for pool cues. Resonance & feel are critical considerations and wood is presently #1.



Matt B.
Click to expand...

You mean like a "pistol grip" pool cue, how cool !!!!!!!! :D
 
alstl said:
No.

There it is! The best response to this thread.
1) Some people like a cue for its looks, some for its performance, some for both.
2) Beauty and taste is something extremely personal.

As long as there are people who want to buy cues for their looks, there will be people building customs, so no, I don't think "this will be the end of the custom cues".

But, as I said on my 2nd point, taste is personal. I have said in one previous thread that to me, one of the top 3 most beautiful cues I've ever seen is the Predator Blak3-3. As you can imagine, there was someone who thought I was exaggerating and it's not a beautiful cue, but in my eyes it just is.
About the Revo, you say that you hope that they went for better performance because it's not a step forward in the beauty department.... in your eyes. I'm sure that to someone the Revo shaft will be better looking than a wooden shaft.
Click to expand...
 
That's what I am trying to say

Most cues now are purchased at least as much for the beauty and workmanship
that goes into them as for the way they play. Is that because most of the custom
cues play the same. Many use after market shafts on the most beautiful and
expensive cues made. Why, because it plays more to their liking. You never saw
this 20,30 years ago. The after market shafts perform better for these people, but
they still want the beauty of the custom cue. If there were million dollar tournaments
tv, etc in pool, manufacturers could work with top players to produce something that
was superior to wood cues it seems that would become the norm. Pool is not a game
of power but if the same results could be achieved by shooting easier which is more
accurate plus being more consistent, not effected by climate, more durable and
whatever else. I think up and coming players would not care so much about the
beauty as the performance. If REVO is not making these for better performance
durability, consistency why would the spend this much time and money on it. Would
they not know if it is not better and just a novelty that it would not sell. I love beautiful
cues and have had a lot of the very best so I hope it never changes.
jack
 
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