Western arrogance is alive and well

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Scott Lee said:
Not to nitpick, but Sony is a Japanese company, not Chinese. Still odd that they would outsource labor to Mexico.:shrug:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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I know Sony is a Japanese company. I had one of the first little transistor radios back in the late '50s with the Sony name on it. I had no clue who Sony was. I was just surprised that the TV was made in Mexico instead of China. Brings to mind the people that want to buy American made cars so they buy a Chrysler product and find out it was made in Mexico or Canada and they could have bought an American made Honda.
 
Welcome to the world of world commerce and the regulation to death of American industry..... OSHA and The EPA plus the labor laws stifle cheap products being made in the US....... Once upon a time the tariffs and duties evened the playing fields...

Today the major corporations are importers like WALMART...... They want no tariffs or duties because they will cut profits....

I am not a opposed to a global economy but by the time our plan of exhausting everyone else's resources works we'll be missing our entire middle class...
 
Renegade_56 said:
Nope, all plastic is not cheap,,,,some is actually quite expensive,,,,,,and phenolic isn't plastic. Generally you can tell a chinese made cue by the generous amount of detail, which is usually just stickers that many people can't tell the difference with, as well as the low price,,,,,,so easily descernable from a mile away. Then there is the all exotic 'ebonized' finish, which to the more informed means cheap ass wood painted black. But at least they make cheap cues, and for the most part sell them cheap. And make no mistake, the ones I see are made extremely cheap. I get them in my repair shop occasionally,,,,,I see hollow ferulles with hardly any tenon in them at all, with plastic so cheap it melts down before I can even break the glue bond,,,,I've removed crooked pins from them that were nothing but a piece of 5/16-18 all thread hack-sawed off and the end that was screwed into the forearm not even deburred before being epoxied in. I have also seen forearms that were not cored at all,,,,,just one piece with a painted finish or a lithograph image on it to cover up the crap wood. Many times the repair work costs more than the cue could ever possibly be worth. I'll stick with American made personally,,,,,,I always get quality, and I never lose money on them.
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If you want to make an extremely large bet you can list what you think makes a good cue and when you do I will bet you that when you bandsaw a Fury cue in half that it fulfills just about every point you listed.

Are you willing to make that list and bet $1000 on it? I am. I will let you go to Sterling's warehouse in Charlotte, not far from you and pick any Fury cue off the shelf and bandsaw it in half on live video in Sterling's shop. Then we will check the points on your list against the construction in the Fury cue.

I have spent five years in the factory where the cues are built and the cues built there from the cheapest to the most expensive are not crap. And I am willing to bet on it.

Are you?
 
Worthless

Don't know about all else that has been talked about, but I do know that you or they could not pay me to use Chinese chalk because you can miscue all day with it.
 
It says don't call it plastic!

Renegade_56 said:
no, phenolic is resin and cloth, or resin and paper,,,,,,,,,,,you may argue that resin is a form of plastic,,,,,,,maybe. Phenolic is a composite material,,,,,,,plastics are poured.
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In the new edition of the FREE CUE AND CUSHION there is an article where this is mentioned, just got done reading it.
 
itsfroze said:
Don't know about all else that has been talked about, but I do know that you or they could not pay me to use Chinese chalk because you can miscue all day with it.
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I would bet you that I can give you some Chinese made chalk that you would use without a problem all day and night as long as I didn't tell you where it was made.
 
JB Cases. Are you in Dallas? I saw that somewhere. If so I may be interested in a case if you got some with you. I PM you just now
 
sfleinen said:
And while there's a positive spin to many Chinese-made products (e.g. Chinese-made cues), there's also the dark side, too.

I'm a dog owner (my lady and I have three). We treat these guys occasionally with doggie treats, so we're in the pet store a lot. Many of the products for pets are now made almost exclusively in China -- including food and treats.

I'm sure the pet owners among us are well aware of the recent news that some of the Chinese-made doggie jerky treats (e.g. dried chicken treats, like the Waggin' Train brand) were suddenly causing severe sickness and deaths:

"Chicken Jerky from China may be causing Fanconi syndrome in dogs"
http://askavetquestion.com/news/2011/chicken-jerky-fanconi/

"FDA Continues to Caution Dog Owners About Chicken Jerky Products"
http://fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm280586.htm

Lisa and I have since STEERED CLEAR of any Chinese-made food and pet products. When we pick up a product off the shelves in the store to read its label, the first place we look is to see where the product is made, and if that's been intentionally obscured, we try to determine it from the barcode. (Yes, it's true that you can't always determine the country of MANUFACTURE from the barcode, but you can get an idea which country issued the barcode, which is often close to the country of manufacture.) We stick with U.S. or Brazilian-made pet products.

-Sean
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And by the same token when there is some problem with American food or products then the rest of the world should steer clear of it as well forever.

All this needs to be put in perspective. Every day billions of products are made all over the world. Billions of people consume those products.

It's simple math to tell you that there will be screwups that will result in death and pain.

But in the overall picture the vast vast vast majority of stuff we use and consume is safe and harmless.

If I made a claim that x-product was the greatest ever because out of ten million users 100 people had an awesome result then I'd be laughed off the board. But if 100 people out of ten million have a disastrous result then it means that the entire production and all similar goods are tainted....

Does that make any sense at all?
 
Renegade_56 said:
they didn't design that either,,,,,,,unless they use it to spoon rice with,,,,,,
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No, it was designed by Jonathan Ive, an Englishman, and its brainchild was Steve Jobs, the son of a Syrian immigrant. Don’t know what the processor is but if it’s Intel that’s largely thanks to Andy Grove, an Intel co-founder and long-time CEO who spent his first 20 years in his native Hungary.

What’s wrong with rice? Most of the world has subsisted on it for centuries.
Although the Chinese would never eat it with spoons - they use chopsticks.
 
JB Cases said:
If you want to make an extremely large bet you can list what you think makes a good cue and when you do I will bet you that when you bandsaw a Fury cue in half that it fulfills just about every point you listed.

Are you willing to make that list and bet $1000 on it? I am. I will let you go to Sterling's warehouse in Charlotte, not far from you and pick any Fury cue off the shelf and bandsaw it in half on live video in Sterling's shop. Then we will check the points on your list against the construction in the Fury cue.

I have spent five years in the factory where the cues are built and the cues built there from the cheapest to the most expensive are not crap. And I am willing to bet on it.

Are you?
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John John John,,,,,,,why on earth would I take that bet about Fury,,,,,as far as I know I have never even seen a Fury Cue,,,,,and I'm sure I've never referenced their quality specifically,,,,however I do know about the quality of 3 or 4 chinese cues I worked on,,,,,,,now if you want that bet on those I'm sure I can round a couple of em up.
 
Taco said:
No, it was designed by Jonathan Ive, an Englishman, and its brainchild was Steve Jobs, the son of a Syrian immigrant. Don’t know what the processor is but if it’s Intel that’s largely thanks to Andy Grove, an Intel co-founder and long-time CEO who spent his first 20 years in his native Hungary.

What’s wrong with rice? Most of the world has subsisted on it for centuries.
Although the Chinese would never eat it with spoons - they use chopsticks.
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Everybody's ancestry leads elsewhere my friend, that don't mean they aren't American, or use American ingenuity to design innovative American products.

I actually like rice myself,,,,,,,but find chopsticks, well, a bit crude by todays standards. Sure they use them, and quite effectively, but does anyone really think they work better than a spoon or fork?
 
Renegade_56 said:
John John John,,,,,,,why on earth would I take that bet about Fury,,,,,as far as I know I have never even seen a Fury Cue,,,,,and I'm sure I've never referenced their quality specifically,,,,however I do know about the quality of 3 or 4 chinese cues I worked on,,,,,,,now if you want that bet on those I'm sure I can round a couple of em up.
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And yet you want to imply that all Chinese cues are crap. Obviously you haven't been keeping up with the industry these past 20 years.

Let me give you a little help, the cues are decent to pretty good these days.

You should probably try to be a little more informed if you want to be a cue maker/repair person.
 
sammylane12 said:
I can`t remember ever buying anything from China that wasn`t a piece of crap.
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Almost everything made today is a piece of crap. Things are rarely build for quality and to last anymore, they are built to last the duration of the warranty and break so you buy a new one.

I have 2 refrigerators in my house 1 in the kitchen that has been replaced 3 times in about 30ish years because repairing them costs more than buying a new one and the other that i keep in the basement is a little over 50yrs old and still works as if it was new. Maybe the old one burns a little more electricity but i dont see much difference in paying an extra $50 a year to run that or paying $800 every 8-10 years to replace a newer model that is guarantied to die around then.

I also have an old 20" CRT computer monitor that is around 20 years old and still works great and i have 2 flat screen LCD monitors that i have changed 3 times at 4-5yr intervals because they just stop working a year or 2 after the warranties expire.

Apple ipods and iphones don't even let you change the batteries, oh if you send it to them they'll change it for you at a cost that is near the price of just buying a new unit.
 
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Renegade_56 said:
Everybody's ancestry leads elsewhere my friend, that don't mean they aren't American, or use American ingenuity to design innovative American products.

I actually like rice myself,,,,,,,but find chopsticks, well, a bit crude by todays standards. Sure they use them, and quite effectively, but does anyone really think they work better than a spoon or fork?
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Yeah, I think that chopsticks work better than a knife and fork for the way that the Chinese people eat. They share meals and the dishes consist of items that are picked up easier with chop sticks when reaching across the table to grab some.

All the cutting up of meat is done in the kitchen. The Chinese use spoons for soup if they aren't drinking it.

What the hell makes you think you are a better person than people whose people have been civilized for more than 5000 years? Most Chinese people can trace their own families back for a thousand years.

You think that these are stupid people? You think that they don't know what a fork is?

Sometimes the arrogance, bigotry and racism on here is astounding. Truly astounding. In a world where all the world's information is at your fingertips you not only choose to be ignorant, you actually take pride in it.

I understand that very few people here will ever have the opportunity to travel to China. I get it that few of you will ever see China as I see it. But you CAN read about it and visit it virtually. You can find Chinese people to talk to and ask them about their country. You don't have to remain ignorant and racist and bigoted.

I don't understand it. When I want to criticize something I first go and study it most of the time. And the times I am usually soundly corrected on here are the times when I didn't do my homework first. I can't understand anyone who would remain willfully ignorant when they can educate themselves in a few mouse clicks.
 
Lumocolor said:
Almost everything made today is a piece of crap. Things are rarely build for quality and to last anymore, they are built to last the duration of the warranty and break so you buy a new one.

I have 2 refrigerators in my house 1 in the kitchen that has been replaced 3 times in about 30ish years because repairing them costs more than buying a new one and the other that i keep in the basement is a little over 50yrs old and still works as if it was new. Maybe the old one burns a little more electricity but i dont see much difference in paying an extra $50 a year to run that or paying $800 every 8-10 years to replace a newer model that is guarantied to die around then.

I also have an old 20" CRT computer monitor that is around 20 years old and still works great and i have 2 flat screen LCD monitors that i have changed 3 times at 4-5yr intervals because they just stop working a year or 2 after the warranties expire.

Apple ipods and iphones don't even let you change the batteries, oh if you send it to them they'll change it for you at a cost that is near the price of just buying a new unit.
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Well I have dropped my Ipod many times and it still works. I have dropped the Ipad twice and it still works. No matter what these are quality units.

There are things made with very high quality and others that aren't. Competition insures that things get better and cheaper.

If you get five years out of a monitor then what did you expect to get? Monitors are now a few hundred dollars and they last five years or more and if they break they are cheap to fix or replace. Ten years ago the same monitor that is now $200 was $1200.

Computers are cheaper and faster and last longer. I have dropped my Dell twice and it's still kicking. Sure there is a lot of crap in the world but there has always been a lot of crap in the world. That's the nature of life crap to quality is the spectrum. So what?

You can buy whatever you want to buy anywhere along that spectrum. And isn't that the choice you want to have?
 
metallicane said:
My buddy just bought a Chinese knkock off of a Scotty Cameron putter. It is clearly an inferior product so I really don't know how good the Chinese are at making a knock off product.
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In most cases they are as good as they get paid to be.

If you are willing to send a team of people to live and work there and oversee the production then you can produce goods with the best quality on Earth. If however you want them to make you a knockoff of product X and aren't willing to pay a lot then you will get a crappy version of product X.

Of course in some industries Chinese companies on average just aren't there yet. No amount of payment and desire can make up for the lack of truly skilled staff with tons of experience on high tech machines as are found in American and European factories.

They are a good 20 years behind in many industries at least. Some more than that. In other industries they are leading. China is vast and deep. More than just about any westerner can really understand. What is happening there is happening on so many levels it would be a huge mistake to see the stuff filling up Wal-Mart and conclude that this is all China is.

There is a lot about China that makes a westerner just go huh? And a lot that is exceedingly clever and innovative. Interesting and frustrating at the same time.

In China though you can have copies made to just about any level of quality that you can pay for and oversee. Barring the hurdles I mentioned above of course.
 
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