What a tool!!!
- Thread starter sigep1967
- Start date
I don't understand this nit thing. The tournaments I play in are all ball fouls, if your finger, clothing or cue touch any ball, its a foul, not only would a close friend call you on it as expected, you'd be looked down on for not calling it on yourself, you broke the rules and should immediately admit you fouled and turn over ball in hall. Sometimes some slack is cut for a brand new player, first tournament or two, but after that it's expected you play by the agreed rules. Why is playing by the agreed upon rules a nit move?
Because this is obvious shot..
What if the other ball had gone in clean past the combo ball, its definitely happened before, you'd have to trust that the player would call the foul on themselves, that is why all kicks, banks, caroms and combos aren't considered obvious shots, because shit can happen and then you have to trust they the player would be truthful.
Poolmanis is right. This shot is very obvious, and I think most of us would agree that this would have been a nit move in a friendly game played in a pool room and even in a gambling match.
The world of professional tournament play brings a far more formal game and those who expect to succeed in it better know and observe the rules and better expect to pay a price anytime they fail to do so.
The causal etiquette of the poolroom as it pertains to the rules has no relevance to world class tournament play. It's a lesson learned the hard way for Savannah, but I feel quite certain she'll come out of it wiser and stronger.
The real culprit here is call shot rules. Slop counts in snooker, a game in which running the balls takes far better cueing than pool, and it also counts in 9ball, the most commonly played rotation pool game at pro level. And yet, one day a few of the pool purists decided that to have a true and fair test of cueing in rotation games, call shot was needed. They were wrong then and they are wrong now. Call shot games are fan unfriendly and they also bring some ambiguity to the proceedings. The most electrifying 10ball event of the year is at Derby City and it's partly because it is played without call shot.
Wishing Savannah well as she navigates her path toward world class play. This minor setback won't slow her down one bit.
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Yep the old ways.... teach your kid that when someone mistreats you on a pool table at a tournament to then do this huh?
Yep 1967, she'd learn ALLOT from your actions in the parking lot.
I guess she learned a lesson. I always call banks and combo’s no matter how obvious for this reason. I could never have called this foul and the guy is a high level douche for doing it but essentially it is a foul. I promise she will never do that again. lessons are learned in the most shitty ways and at the worst time.
So in context of my post I said if he (the player) had said what you here at the end of the video then yes we would have had a come to Jesus meeting in the parking lot or right there on the floor. If he did not say that and it was said said by another party to him then that was about as much of a nit as he was being about calling the foul on the obvious combo.
Now after listening to it more closely I do not believe the player said that but someone in the crowd was saying it to him. Which in my opinion was wrong.
LOL of course if that had been my daughter and the guy did say that to her I would have had more trouble keeping her from breaking her cue stick over his head.
Funny you should bring this up on here. I can remember when on this same forum not so long ago there were many people that were upset because tournaments were now calling fouls on any touching of the cue ball or object balls during a shot. "All Ball Fouls" were wrong in their opinion. They firmly believed that "Cue Ball Fouls Only" should remain the correct way to play 9-Ball, Ten Ball or One Pocket and that All Ball Fouls should only be the domain of Straight Pool. Their argument was that playing All Ball Fouls would be too difficult to enforce. I disagreed saying that playing ABF was actually easier to officiate than CBFO only. This way there was no question if it was a foul or not.
For so many years (decades) almost all tournaments in this country (except 14.1) and in most of the world were being played with CBFO. We've come full circle now and almost all tournaments play ABF, as well it should be in professional pool. The CBFO crowd has fallen silent. I find this turn of events interesting and it speaks to human nature.
As far as the issue here, I still think Savannah got a raw deal and should have received a warning at best. The "rules" pertaining to this type of shot have been changed back and forth again and again, depending on the time and the place and the presiding governing body for that event and the rules being used by the tournament organizers for the event. Even the rules shown on here are somewhat contradictory regarding calling obvious shots or combinations. Often times rule changes or "official" rules do not cover everything that is given to players in tournaments. They are somehow just expected to be up to date on what all the current rules are and what/who's rules are being used here.
What Savannah learned here is that sometimes life is not fair! That's one for all of us to remember!
There would have been no reason for Hoang to have made those ugly comments to Savannah after the match. She reluctantly accepted the result of not calling the combo far more maturely than most other players would have handled it in that situation.
Unless I missed it, the OP needs to edit and correct his first post and issue an apology for wrongly having accused Hoang of making those statements at the completion of the match.
I see now that the OP did finally admit he was wrong, in a post just before this one. If keeping up with the thread he started, he should have done so much sooner.
It doesn't matter and probably nobody else cares, but to get it straight - it was never a foul and nobody called a foul. She made a legal hit but didn't call the shot. End of inning, no ball in hand, incoming player's option. (He chose to shoot, and did not take ball in hand.)
Anyway yes, in this situation - and w/no ref - I feel the Morally Correct Play would be to let the opponent keep shooting with a reminder to call non-obvious shots. (As per the definition.) While this one was obvious, the next one might not be.
PS If that combo was on the 10 ball, in a call-shot game any player would make a point of explicitly calling it, no? So why not on the 3?
the more i think about it, the more i see i was wrong in my first gut response post in this thread. our definition of a nit is highly cultural. the dude comes over from vietnam, where (maybe) the rules are more binary and our definitions of sportsmanship relative to actual rules may seem completely arbitrary. and now he's hounded around because of the social media clout of the easton parents.
I wouldn't call him a nit either. There are other words to describe his behavior here and nit is not one of them. I would say what he did was a cheap shot, for lack of a better description, and can fully understand her parents being upset. We all know what happens when we get upset. We've all been there! We may say something that we regret later which I suspect is the case here. I'm giving them a pass too.
I think I did say he didn't say it on the first page, but maybe wasn't clear enough for you. Dude was still a nit for calling the foul like that on such an obvious shot.
smiling_Hans
Well-known member
You guys have to remember this girl isn’t some random kid we play in our weekly tournaments. The awkwardness of having to beat a kid in front of their parents.
This was a high level kid who will most likely become a professional in the future.
She played a high level player that has a chance to win. These are some people’s livelihood here.
Put it this way. You think SVB let that slide?
This was a high level kid who will most likely become a professional in the future.
She played a high level player that has a chance to win. These are some people’s livelihood here.
Put it this way. You think SVB let that slide?
Hope you're wrong. She needed to learn how "call shot" games are played in pro events. What she or anyone else thinks the rules should be is not relevant, nor is what the rules once were. As Bob Jewett so often points out, players make almost no effort to learn the rules, and often get burned because of it.
smiling_Hans
Well-known member
These call your shots tournaments are stupid because not only are you pocketing a thousand balls a weekend but you have to call it a thousand times. The redundancy and calling out the shot can be quite tiring and draining. It extra energy expelled.
With that said I can see how a guy that calls his shots for the entire tournament is upset that someone doesn’t do the same.
I be damn to lose this match because someone didn’t call their shot when I’ve been calling every damn shot hundreds of times every hour.
With that said I can see how a guy that calls his shots for the entire tournament is upset that someone doesn’t do the same.
I be damn to lose this match because someone didn’t call their shot when I’ve been calling every damn shot hundreds of times every hour.
smiling_Hans
Well-known member
Let’s break it down some more it takes about 2 seconds to call your shot and that’s if you call it once.
3600 seconds in an hour.
So in a match or a weekend you would have exerted a non-stop hour to two hours worth of conversation. That’s like giving a speech.
This is why I hate these call your shots tournaments.
It gets tiring fast and the mental aspect as well. It’s a big deal. If it wasn’t we would see more people call out shots with their friends just so there’s no misunderstanding.
3600 seconds in an hour.
So in a match or a weekend you would have exerted a non-stop hour to two hours worth of conversation. That’s like giving a speech.
This is why I hate these call your shots tournaments.
It gets tiring fast and the mental aspect as well. It’s a big deal. If it wasn’t we would see more people call out shots with their friends just so there’s no misunderstanding.
Unless there is something I don’t know or changed its called call your pocket, not call shot Stu. I cant understand why everybody is saying call shot....lol. Different game.
If I call the 2 ball, on any good hit, I could initially miss the straight in 2 by a mile and it could go three rails around the table off another ball and be good. As long as it goes in the pocket I called its good. Call shot you would need to say three rails off the 7 to be a good shot. In call shot, on a combo you would say 5 -3 in the corner and would have to hit the 5 first. Call pocket you just call the 3...
Not many play call shot anymore because the rules can get crazy.