What About This Shot?

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i had this shot earlier tonight, and after examining this for about 5 minutes i decided it was just too tough to try and get position on the '2' Ball.

the reason i say that is because the shot on the '1' Ball was just too straight into the side pocket. cheating the pocket left and bouncing off the top rail down to the short rail for the '2' just wasnt there. i would have probably had to overcut the '1' Ball to accomplish that.

cheating the pocket with high right, and spinning down off the top rail to the short rail for the '2' Ball would have been very difficult too, since the shot was straight in.

what would you top level players have done? tried to cheat the pocket and hope you didnt hit the '1' Ball into a point and miss? thats what i was afraid of doing.

DCP

p.s. cant get the cue ball to show up, but it rests at Point A

CueTable Help

 
I'll shoot it all day.
 

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With CueBall at A, the shot has enough angle to use high + right to get down to the 2.

There's a BIG chance that you'll hit the 7 and not have a decent shot on the 2, but at that point a safety should reveal itself.

If your WEI diagram is slightly off and the CB and 1 are totally straight in, I'd still cheat the pocket. The side pockets are big from that angle. Doing so should even clear the CB of the 7 going down for position on the 2-ball.

Also, overcutting the 1-ball just a TINY TINY bit will be counter-acted to a small degree by the right (inside) english of the cueball. So the cueball will come off at a slight angle off the 1-ball (to the rail; slightly left of the side pocket) enough to get down for the 2. Meanwhile, while yes you are 'cheating' the side pocket with the 1-ball, you're also compensating a little for the angle with the use of inside english. I wouldn't worry about the ball popping out of the pocket if you hit it well.

SW
 
you shot i would shoot all day, if it was as easy as drawing those lines.

my actual shot, i dont believe, would have been that easy.

DCP
 
Optical illusion? It looks to me like the cueball (at point A) is slightly right of the 1-ball in the side (i.e. will come off to the left)

Hal said:
I'll shoot it all day.
Click to expand...
 
All I did was put the cue ball over his A. I haven't changed anything.
 

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There is almost always room to get to the side rail and come down, either to the left or right of the pocket. Another option would be to draw straight back and cut the 2 in the corner and go straight up table for the 3 in the side or corner. Another option would be to draw the cue ball back an inch or two and play an easy, and strong, safe, by putting the QB in behind the 8 and sending the 2 up table. Do what you think is comfortable in a game, and then practice the options.

Mike
 
According to how you laid out the shot in the diagram, it appears that following it up would be the best choice. If you find that difficult, then perhaps you didn't diagram the layout precisely. 1/4" difference in either the one ball or cue ball position is enough to totally change how the shot is played. And that has nothing to do with which side of the ball you're on. If there is more angle than shown, following it up is NOT going to be easy as whitey will go way too wide, and instead, a draw shot missing the 5 ball on its right side would get you shape.


It all depends. That's the difficulty I have when dealing with what-ifs and how-tos with other players because when they try to recreate a shot from memory, sometimes a fraction of an inch, the smallest amount can alter how the shot plays.


Generally speaking, it isn't a great idea to follow into rails like that to get shape. If you don't hit it just right, the ball will "die" in the rail more than you expected and you will be left with a sharp angle. It all depends on the conditions. There are some tables that I really try hard to avoid playing shape like that. Also, any slight bit of unwanted english can create problems. I like to rely on shots and strokes that offer the least amount of opportunity for me to accidentally induce error.


The person who diagramed the follow shot seems to be cheating the pocket. I don't know if you want to do that, especially if that table has tight pockets. If the one ball is more on the leftside, and follow hits the OTHER side cushion, then I believe you are too straight in to really do much. You don't have enough angle to slam it with middle or low and go all the way around, and playing the fancy follow shot with extreme right hand english is a low percentage shot. You could play the one and then look for a safe on the two ball?
 
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I have to agree with others that the side pocket from that angle is a pretty big hole with lot's of options for cheating. However, if you were really as dead straight with 'really' no way of cheating the pocket, I would have gone ahead and pocketed the 1 letting the cue ball coast in the direction of the pocket, but stopping just short of having to jack up and either bury the cb behind the 8, or playing a two way shot trying to thin the 2 ball into the bottom right corner pocket while leaving the cb tied up with the 3. There are times when instead of playing position to pocket the next ball, you need to think about playing position to play safe on the next ball.
dave
 
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In Hal's diagram, the arrow coming out of the 1 ball is not coming out of the center. That's why it looks like the shot is on.
 
Now if the shot was like this: (See next post)
 

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5 minutes?! Are you F'ing kidding? I really hope so...

It is possible that the angle didn't lend itself to to a force/ spin uptable, but if it didn't, then it sure as shizzit did lend itself to a cross-side bank.

Play it 2-way (safe and make). Hide the CB uptable behind something or as least leave it on the head rail BUT ONLY IF YOU CAN ALSO GET POSITION ON THE NEXT BALL!

YOu really shouldn't be taking 5 minutes. it isn't chess.
 
Bank the 1...???

I agree that you can usually cheat a side pocket enough to come of the bank on either side. But from the original diagram an option would be to bank the 1-ball...maybe needing a little left english...and let the cue ball slide up before it reaches the 8-ball for a shot on the 2. If you miss the 1-ball it be could be blocked by the 7-ball or at least be a difficult shot.
 
You can also bank the shot with stun draw for natural position on the 2ball. Cutting across the 1-ball will put a little spin on the 1-ball helping it to turn toward the pocket.

Still, I'd probably take the draw shot for the fine cut if there wasn't enough angle to cheat the pocket. But most times it's cheatable from that position.

Colin
 
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My .02 cents

From the original Cuetable layout:

1) It looks you can cheat the pocket and throw the one to the right side of the side pocket and use upper right english to take the cue uptable to
get shape on the 2, at least decent shape.
2) If not, I would just pull the cue back to about where it was and cut the 2 into the corner.
 
I'll bet that Buddy Hall would draw the cueball back from where is started or a little farther and cut the 2 ball in the corner. Something like " Keep it simple."
 
Here is a shot taught to me by 2 experts at different time (Thanks to Ron Park of NJ and Vincent Ramano of NY)

It takes a little practicing to do, it's almost like a masse shot but not quite extreme. Basically you need to balance between deflection, ball spin and stroke power to achieve a good outcome. As a start, try aim the 1 ball full, elevate the cue 30 degrees and stab it hard with right English.


Hard stun with inside


Depends on the table condition, this is also possible.N

Another possible shot

Or

Fancy a little cross side?

Cheers
Wei

DrCue'sProtege said:
i had this shot earlier tonight, and after examining this for about 5 minutes i decided it was just too tough to try and get position on the '2' Ball.

the reason i say that is because the shot on the '1' Ball was just too straight into the side pocket. cheating the pocket left and bouncing off the top rail down to the short rail for the '2' just wasnt there. i would have probably had to overcut the '1' Ball to accomplish that.

cheating the pocket with high right, and spinning down off the top rail to the short rail for the '2' Ball would have been very difficult too, since the shot was straight in.

what would you top level players have done? tried to cheat the pocket and hope you didnt hit the '1' Ball into a point and miss? thats what i was afraid of doing.

DCP

p.s. cant get the cue ball to show up, but it rests at Point A
[/WEI]
Click to expand...
 
Colin Colenso said:
You can also bank the shot with stun draw for natural position on the 2ball. Cutting across the 1-ball will put a little spin on the 1-ball helping it to turn toward the pocket....
Click to expand...
Exactly. And if the cue ball has anything close to position on the 2 ball, the leave will be safe. If a nine ball player is not confident of that cross-side bank, he needs to get himself to the practice table.
 
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