What affects the hit of a cue the most?

[manwon]

Craig, when did Bob say hide glue was good for plastic, metal and heavily dyed veneers?

Joey, what other than hide glue was used to glue up any of the above before 1960?

Please answer this question Joey, I really have no idea and I am always willing to learn something new.

Thanks Joey

 

[JoeyInCali]

Joey, what other than hide glue was used to glue up any of the above before 1960?

Please answer this question Joey, I really have no idea and I am always willing to learn something new.

Thanks Joey

Elmer's glue was invented in the 50's.
Plastic pressfit collars on those old cues were bound to fail.
So were metal studs in the A-joint. Hell we still see metal studs in the A-joint rattle to these day with epoxies.
Veneers breaking and failing? We use them because they are pretty.
Spain contends they make the cue stronger. I'm not gonna argue that.

Meucci supposedly was the first to use epoxy.
Technically then the most expensive cues out there today probably have hide or wood glue.

 

[manwon]

Elmer's glue was invented in the 50's.
Plastic pressfit collars on those old cues were bound to fail.
So were metal studs in the A-joint. Hell we still see metal studs in the A-joint rattle to these day with epoxies.
Veneers breaking and failing? We use them because they are pretty.
Spain contends they make the cue stronger. I'm not gonna argue that.

Meucci supposedly was the first to use epoxy.
Technically then the most expensive cues out there today probably have hide or wood glue.

So, then I suppose we that we agree that Hide Glue was the glue of choice from the 1950's back.

Thanks Joey

 

[JoeyInCali]

So, then I suppose we that we agree that Hide Glue was the glue of choice from the 1950's back.

Thanks Joey

Yes but WHAT if those parts you mentioned failed were mechanically bonded, IMHO there would be a lot less failure ( except metals ).

 

[QMAKER]

Hide Glue

Thanks for your thoughts on this, but I have to ask you why do many cues from the 1960's and before simple fall apart. I do a lot of restoration work, and I assume that Hide Glue was used on most cues made before the 1960's and especially before the 1950's. Many old cues have their Veneers coming loose, joint collars are loose, Butt Caps are loose, Ferrules are loose, I can go on and on.

Now, I know the difference between old cues that were left in a barn, garage, or a damp basement and those that were left in a temperature controlled environment.

I would appreciate if you can explain why that this happens if it is not the adhesive.

Thanks Craig

Hi Craig: My thinking is this: hide glue is for a wood-to wood fit only and not wood to metal, plastic, ivory or phenolic (unless it is threaded).. If older cues are failing in their joints it is probably because of: A. the above, B. repeated shock and C. a poor fit on the joinery. I do not use hide glue myself as the epoxies, urethanes and CA's are very strong, easy to use and do not require a fit as precise as a hide glue joint would. My contention was, and is, hide glues have been around for centuries and hold together some of the most priceless wood treasures we have. I would not be afraid to use hide glue in a cue on a properly fitted wood-to wood joint. If it lasted as long as some of the pre epoxy, urethane and CA cues have I would be happy. As I stated in my previous post hide glues, of all the glues (as far as I know), mostly resemble wood and expand and contract at about the same rate. As a side note: when I visited the Martin Guitar factory awhile back they were still using hide glue.

Respectfully,

 

[manwon]

Hi Craig: My thinking is this: hide glue is for a wood-to wood fit only and not wood to metal, plastic, ivory or phenolic (unless it is threaded).. If older cues are failing in their joints it is probably because of: A. the above, B. repeated shock and C. a poor fit on the joinery. I do not use hide glue myself as the epoxies, urethanes and CA's are very strong, easy to use and do not require a fit as precise as a hide glue joint would. My contention was, and is, hide glues have been around for centuries and hold together some of the most priceless wood treasures we have. I would not be afraid to use hide glue in a cue on a properly fitted wood-to wood joint. If it lasted as long as some of the pre epoxy, urethane and CA cues have I would be happy. As I stated in my previous post hide glues, of all the glues (as far as I know), mostly resemble wood and expand and contract at about the same rate. As a side note: when I visited the Martin Guitar factory awhile back they were still using hide glue.

Respectfully,

Thanks for replying Bob, I can certainly see your point clearly now.

Take care

 

[sengkun108]

what a good thread....

 

[Cuemaster98]

I always thought the hit of the cue starts with selecting the right shaft wood, it the foundation for a good hit. You can always change the tip and ferrule to maximize the value of the shaft but you can't change the property of the shaft itself. If you have a good shaft, it generally will always hit good with any combination of tip, taper or ferrule or even no ferrule. All components in a cue plays it part but to me the shaft wood is probably the most important.

You can always test this out by having 2 shafts with the exact taper, tip, ferrule, etc and you'll find that in all cases they will both hit different. I make my "Fearless" shafts so the only variables are the taper, tip and most important shaft wood selection...I tell you if you find the right shaft it will sing to you. I personally believe that depending on your type of stroke and how you plays...certain shaft wood selection can help maximize your play.

Duc.

 

[conetip]

Don't forget glue, butt taper, moisture content, grain orientation/direction, finish and snake oil.

Hey Joey, what type of snake do you get the oil from?
No snakes here so I can't make my own.
They would probably frown upon importing it as well with a fine.

Definitely, some handles are better than others.
I prefer the cue without a rubber bumper.
Been testing the stainless joint thing to phenolic . As long as the 2 parts were kept very tight together, I could not tell the difference in the hit.
Tips make the biggest difference in hit and feel of a cue.
A cue can go from being great to a dog just with a tip change.

 

[scdiveteam]

Hi,

Since the question is what effects the hit of the cue the most, I would have to say the shaft (taper and density being the 2 biggest factors).

JMO,

Rick

 

[jsaxman]

hit of cue

Barringer cue
Bludworth cue
Southwest cue

The hit of these cues (basic cue) are SOLID.
Love the hit! Did not like the Southwest (taper of shaft),but solid hit.

Meucci cues have lots of flex. (like a whip)

Seems that the great cues are more towards the solid hit.

Do you build you cues toward the Solid hit?

later,
sax

What about resonance of a cue?
The vibration thru the cue as it hits the cue ball?
Do you want some resonance or very little of it?

later,
sax

 

[eddie0776]

I think the balance point and weight play a big part as well as the density of the wood. I personally love the way cocobola, kingwood and ebony play.

 

[the kidd]

I agree. without that round rubber bumper, the cue hit feels great.
Actually an old fashioned flat bumper the diameter of the butt plate is the way to go.

You are right, but I was just taking his list and putting them in the order I feel effects it the most. The bumper has more potential to change the feel and sound tone of the cue than the butt sleeve or butt plate. You can change the rubber bumper to a phenolic bumper and the thing can sound like a different cue. There is a national class player who did that to one of my cues and swears by it. I won't say who he is as I am not paying him to play with my cues.

 

[Amateur 203]

Oops time passed bump

 

[Lexicologist71]

Don't forget that weight of the cue will also effect the felt shockwave from hitting the ball. For every force action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. As weight increases, the sharpness of the felt recoil reduces.