What cue stroke are you using?

[ENGLISH!]

Rick,

Honest question looking for an honest answer.

Do you believe that a piston stroke can make more types of shots than a pendulum stroke?

I have explained my thinking numerous (too many) times in different ways in general when responding to some of this 'stuff' & I have tried to get you to see it too.

Now, you tell me, why I should answer anything that you ever ask me when you have not answered a few very simple questions that I have asked you AND you have called me either a troll or of limited comprehension skills or both.

You are just like some of the others that want to 'play' on you own little
private One Way Street.

Well I'm learning to not play on those One Way Streets.

Why would you want to know what a troll with limited comprehension skills thinks about anything.

I'm sure that you think that you have all of the answers that you need but it is you that is still searching for your stroke, not me.

 

[Neil]

Neil, I want to see your version so I understand how you execute it. I can post a video too if wanted.

Here's the pendulum stroke- elbow does not move, or moves very little https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNIW3zwmeYo

and the "J" stroke- pendulum until contact with the cb, then the elbow drops for the follow-through https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7EBLjgC8Aw&feature=youtu.be

and the piston stroke- elbow drops to keep the cue level https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2eargj1f5c&feature=youtu.be (had a tough time doing this one. Took four tries just to get that bad of one.[and this is the best of the four] I found it extremely difficult to drop my elbow due to training not to, and due to the short shot.

Go ahead and post yours if you don't mind.

 

[BeiberLvr]

I have explained mythinking numerous times in different ways in general when responding to some of this 'stuff' & I have tried to get you to see it too.

Now, you tell me, why I should answer anything that you ever ask me when you have not answered a few very simple questions that I have asked you AND you have called me either a troll or of limited comprehension skills or both.

You are just like some of the others that want to 'play' on you own little
private One Way Street.

Well I'm learning to not play on those One Way Streets.

Why would you want to know what a troll with limited comprehension skills thinks about anything.

I'm sure that you think that you have all of the answers that you need but it is you that is still searching for your stroke, not me.

Because if you're answer is yes, then I would just like you to prove it, that's all.

In an earlier post I mentioned that since contact time is so minuscule, that what happens after contact (tip down with pendulum or straight through with a piston) makes not one ounce of difference.

You then went on to say something along the lines of I was just repeating what others have said. Sure, I'll agree with that. However, you failed to show me where I and others were incorrect.

So all I'm asking of you since you obviously disagree and think you can increase contact time, is to prove it to me. Should be pretty simple for you to do, but if you can't, then your argument of pendulum vs. piston holds no ground.

-Jon

 

[ENGLISH!]

Because if you're answer is yes, then I would just like you to prove it, that's all.

In an earlier post I mentioned that since contact time is so minuscule, that what happens after contact (tip down with pendulum or straight through with a piston) makes not one ounce of difference.

You then went on to say something along the lines of I was just repeating what others have said. Sure, I'll agree with that. However, you failed to show me where I and others were incorrect.

So all I'm asking of you since you obviously disagree and think you can increase contact time, is to prove it to me. Should be pretty simple for you to do, but if you can't, then your argument of pendulum vs. piston holds no ground.

-Jon

Nice try at the end. You insult me, won't answer any of my simple questions, & then insult me again by trying to goat me into not only answering your questions but prove something to you.

Keep stroking the way you are. It's working well enough for you.

I thought you were sincere in spite of some of my earlier suspicions. You've shown me your true colors.

 

[dr9ball]

Ladies & Gentlemen,

I'm curious & I was just wondering how many of you are using a completely fixed elbow pendulum stroke & how many of you are using a variation or a completely different stroke all together such as a piston type stroke?

Also, if you would like, could you briefly explain why you are using that stroke.

Thanks in Advance & Best Wishes to All,
Rick

IN practice i use a pendulum stroke with no elbow drop. IN pressure situations/ game play I will sometimes drop my elbow after contact with the cueball. This is especially noticeable on high speed shots. I teach a pendulum stroke because I believe it is simple to teach and effective with few moving parts or timing issues. I practice it daily, but for certain shots my elbow drops a bit after contact. It shows up on video in game situations for power shots.
Am I worried about it? No, not at all. It works for me and I don't expect that I will play perfectly, after all I am human. The proof of any technique is if the student can make it work for them. I've had students that after diligent practice, have determined that the pendulum stroke is not for them. It is their choice. If it's not working they have every right to try something else. Most of the students I teach are beginners and they really don't have any semblance of good fundamentals to start with. They learn the pendulum stroke with the pinned elbow. At first it is mechanical, like learning to drive a stickshift car but then with proper practice for many, it becomes automatic.

In the end, any technique is only good if it works reliably for an individual. I believe it's possible to play at a very high level with different types of strokes. One may be easier for some people while another may be the preference of others.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Nice try at the end. You insult me, won't answer any of my simple questions, & then insult me again by trying to goat me into not only answering your questions but prove something to you.

Keep stroking the way you are. It's working well enough for you.

I thought you were sincere in spite of some of my earlier suspicions. You've shown me your true colors.

Sorry if you felt insulted.

All I would like from you is a bio-mechanical explanation of the piston stroke, and proof that it increases contact time with the CB.

And honestly it's not really for me, but other people that visit the forums.

 

[ENGLISH!]

IN practice i use a pendulum stroke with no elbow drop. IN pressure situations/ game play I will sometimes drop my elbow after contact with the cueball. This is especially noticeable on high speed shots. I teach a pendulum stroke because I believe it is simple to teach and effective with few moving parts or timing issues. I practice it daily, but for certain shots my elbow drops a bit after contact. It shows up on video in game situations for power shots.
Am I worried about it? No, not at all. It works for me and I don't expect that I will play perfectly, after all I am human. The proof of any technique is if the student can make it work for them. I've had students that after diligent practice, have determined that the pendulum stroke is not for them. It is their choice. If it's not working they have every right to try something else. Most of the students I teach are beginners and they really don't have any semblance of good fundamentals to start with. They learn the pendulum stroke with the pinned elbow. At first it is mechanical, like learning to drive a stickshift car but then with proper practice for many, it becomes automatic.

In the end, any technique is only good if it works reliably for an individual. I believe it's possible to play at a very high level with different types of strokes. One may be easier for some people while another may be the preference of others.

Hi Rufus,

Fairly well stated.

I can agree with every thing that you said.

If a newbie comes to you & asks for stroke lessons, what is the first thing that you do?

Rick

 

[sfleinen]

Sorry if you felt insulted.

All I would like from you is a bio-mechanical explanation of the piston stroke, and proof that it increases contact time with the CB.

And honestly it's not really for me, but other people that visit the forums.

OMG. I'm freakin' dyin' over here.

-Sean

 

[dr9ball]

Hi Rufus,

Fairly well stated.

I can agree with every thing that you said.

If a newbie comes to you & asks for stroke lessons, what is the first thing that you do?

Rick

I would ask if they were willing to put in the time/practice to develop their game. If they aren't willing to do the work/ put in the effort it's not worth it for me and certainly not for them.

Sadly most expect an instant cure in one lesson. If they were willing and I believed them, I would want to watch them play. Then I would want to have them shoot some standardized shots that I can video for analysis and discussion with them. There's often more than one issue that needs to be addressed. Video is a great teaching tool.

Have a good weekend.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I would ask if they were willing to put in the time/practice to develop their game. If they aren't willing to do the work/ put in the effort it's not worth it for me and certainly not for them.

Sadly most expect an instant cure in one lesson. If they were willing and I believed them, I would want to watch them play. Then I would want to have them shoot some standardized shots that I can video for analysis and discussion with them. There's often more than one issue that needs to be addressed. Video is a great teaching tool.

Rufus,

So, after the initial analysis, do you proceed to teach them the pendulum stroke or do you work with what they have & can you teach a piston stroke?

Rick

 

[Mikjary]

Mike,

I guess you too are not going to answer my questions.

Are you just being diplomatic?

If so, please PM me.

Best to Y'a,
Rick

I'm not trying to be diplomatic. I'm still the same creep. Haven't changed. :grin: I don't know what Randy said. Sorry. I'm just throwing some of my own observations out there to get a discussion started again. I'd like to hear some ideas from some of the lurkers.

I don't like labeling and subscribing to the, "We know it all about this game" mentality. When a subject is debated, I like to hear from differing viewpoints without limiting the scope to what is already known or accepted.

IOW, what he said may be correct. It may also be open to interpretation and examination. I'm not convinced about a lot of what I've read here, but I would like the sniping to stop so we could have a discussion. That I AM sure of! :grin-square:

Best,
Mike

 

[ENGLISH!]

I'm not trying to be diplomatic. I'm still the same creep. Haven't changed. :grin: I don't know what Randy said. Sorry. I'm just throwing some of my own observations out there to get a discussion started again. I'd like to hear some ideas from some of the lurkers.

I don't like labeling and subscribing to the, "We know it all about this game" mentality. When a subject is debated, I like to hear from differing viewpoints without limiting the scope to what is already known or accepted.

IOW, what he said may be correct. It may also be open to interpretation and examination. I'm not convinced about a lot of what I've read here, but I would like the sniping to stop so we could have a discussion. That I AM sure of! :grin-square:

Best,
Mike

Mike,

Look what it got me for asking for a simple explanation of how an assertion by Randy can happen because I don't see how it can happen. I asked twice with no explanation offered. I opened the 'sweet spot' thread to see if anyone could offer an explanation. Then the 'wrecking crew' derails this thread by bringing it here from the closed thread when that was not the intention of this thread.

I doubt you are going to get any real discussion from any differences of opinion for fear of similar bombardment.

I've gotten several PM's that say just that. No one wants to be insulted & bullied & ganged up on.

Good Luck getting what You...& I, & I think Fran Crimi & I'm sure others want.

Best to Y'a,
Rick

 

[BeiberLvr]

I'm not trying to be diplomatic. I'm still the same creep. Haven't changed. :grin: I don't know what Randy said. Sorry. I'm just throwing some of my own observations out there to get a discussion started again. I'd like to hear some ideas from some of the lurkers.

I don't like labeling and subscribing to the, "We know it all about this game" mentality. When a subject is debated, I like to hear from differing viewpoints without limiting the scope to what is already known or accepted.

IOW, what he said may be correct. It may also be open to interpretation and examination. I'm not convinced about a lot of what I've read here, but I would like the sniping to stop so we could have a discussion. That I AM sure of! :grin-square:

Best,
Mike

I'm all for being open minded. The fact is that there are high speed videos that show contact time is so short that what happens afterwards is negligible. I simply asked Rick (or anyone really) to prove the opposite. That contact time can be increased with a piston stroke.

Without actual proof, it's merely conjecture at this point.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Never mind.:banghead:

 

[BeiberLvr]

Never mind.:banghead:

So no proof?

 

[ENGLISH!]

So no proof?

Almost.... but no!.:banghead:

 

[BeiberLvr]

Almost.... but no!.:banghead:

Fair enough. I have pretty good patience.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Nice try at the end. You insult me, won't answer any of my simple questions, & then insult me again by trying to goat me into not only answering your questions but prove something to you.

Keep stroking the way you are. It's working well enough for you.

I thought you were sincere in spite of some of my earlier suspicions. You've shown me your true colors.

Bumped for Jon.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Bumped for Jon.

Fine, I'll answer your mechanical bridge question.

No, I do not use the mechanical bridge in the same fashion as I would a pendulum stroke. Not by choice, but because I'm "restricted and confined" by the design of the bridge.

I also miss routine shots with the bridge that I would otherwise make. Guess what? So does almost everyone else. There are lots of folks that play well with the bridge, and can even string racks together. But I've never seen anyone that plays better with one.

Now that I've given you an honest answer to your question, I expect some sort of attempt by you to prove that the piston stroke can increase contact time with the CB.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Deleted.................