What dictates the price of a standard sneaky?

[manwon]

I agree with you guys to a degree about the high prices. Any new one (imho) should not cost more than $350-$400 unless the blank is exceptional or was crafted by the builder. Even at that, it's still hard to justify over $500-$550 for a reasonably plain sneaky.

That being said, if anybody wants to unload an old beat up CP sneaky and gouge me in the process, I'll gladly pay $750 or more. :smile:

Thanks for bringing some sanity back to this thread, I totally agree with you and many of the other posters to this thread. I basically said the same thing in an earlier post and this is the response that a Cue Builder on this made.

In my opinion a cue like this should not cost more than $300, no matter who made the cue.
The flippers would be loving it if that were the selling price of a lot of big named sneakies out there.
I understand TS sneakies are around 500.
Because they hit great, are now not very easily found and that he stopped making them.
IF you could build a bare bones sneaky that hits as good as the TS, it'll sell.


The above is type of thinking that continues to push the myth forward. Like I said in the other post there is only so much you do to a Sneaky Pete. In addition a cues playability is not a Guaranty from any cue maker, some cues will hit good, some will hit great, and some will hit like dog shit. Again like others have already said most cue makers do not use their best materials on Sneaky Pete's. Generally the shaft wood is a lower quality, and in most cases the Blanks are purchased or even cut down house cues.

Thanks again for your sensible post

 

[dave sutton]

IMO the money isnt there in sneakies. i dont do many. most of the same processes for 1/3 the price. id rather take a few more man hours make and sell my own cues for 3x the price.

just an example. TS neaky 500$+/- or TS 4 pointer 1500$ +/-

easy math in my book

 

[manwon]

IMO the money isnt there in sneakies. i dont do many. most of the same processes for 1/3 the price. id rather take a few more man hours make and sell my own cues for 3x the price.

just an example. TS neaky 500$+/- or TS 4 pointer 1500$ +/-

easy math in my book

I completely agree Dave, it doesn't make any sense, unless you can't or don't Count!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JoeyInCali]

IMO the money isnt there in sneakies. i dont do many. most of the same processes for 1/3 the price. id rather take a few more man hours make and sell my own cues for 3x the price.

just an example. TS neaky 500$+/- or TS 4 pointer 1500$ +/-

easy math in my book

It makes those TS sneakies a better value then .
He stopped making them and I believe they topped at $275 then.
Flippers doubled the price after he quit making them I think.

 

[dave sutton]

It makes those TS sneakies a better value then .
He stopped making them and I believe they topped at $275 then.
Flippers doubled the price after he quit making them I think.

when i talk to tim he told me he didnt even make sneakies. bob fry made them while in tims shop. tim doesnt offer them bc bob isnt there anymore. if you want a sneaky from tim he will refer you to bob

 

[manwon]

when i talk to tim he told me he didnt even make sneakies. bob fry made them while in tims shop. tim doesnt offer them bc bob isnt there anymore. if you want a sneaky from tim he will refer you to bob

Now that is some Funny Shit, thanks for the information Dave. In the end like I have said many times you get what you paid for one way or another, and when and if this information gets our to the General Public there are going to be some Mad People who feel they got screwed!!!!!!!!!! It took some guts to post this information publicly, however, it is certainly the right thing to do, thanks for bringing this up!!

Take Care Dave

 

[dave sutton]

Now that is some Funny Shit, thanks for the information Dave. In the end like I have said many times you get what you paid for one way or another, and when and if this information gets our to the General Public there are going to be some Mad People who feel they got screwed!!!!!!!!!! It took some guts to post this information publicly, however, it is certainly the right thing to do, thanks for bringing this up!!

Take Care Dave

i dont want to cause trouble. after bob left i tried to order a sneaky from tim and thats when he told me that. it happens in a number of shops im sure. alot of makers have partners/helpers. look at mike C. u think he doest work on tims cues. hes been there 1000 years and how many cochrans have you seen other then that last few years or so...

heres a story. about 10 years ago i had mottey make me a cue. got it loved it. then a very good friend of his from pittsburg that lives here said paul doesnt make all the cues and a guy named james white did alot of the work. that was the first time i heard jw's name. i did some research and found a jmw cue IDENTICAL obv i was mad and traded it for another cue.

now look who jmw is...lol. should have kept that cue. ive had a few since. :wink:

not a bad thing i think

there would be no palmer without paradise, herceck without spain and the list goes on...

 

[manwon]

i dont want to cause trouble. after bob left i tried to order a sneaky from tim and thats when he told me that. it happens in a number of shops im sure. alot of makers have partners/helpers. look at mike C. u think he doest work on tims cues. hes been there 1000 years and how many cochrans have you seen other then that last few years or so...

heres a story. about 10 years ago i had mottey make me a cue. got it loved it. then a very good friend of his from pittsburg that lives here said paul doesnt make all the cues and a guy named james white did alot of the work. that was the first time i heard jw's name. i did some research and found a jmw cue IDENTICAL obv i was mad and traded it for another cue.

now look who jmw is...lol. should have kept that cue. ive had a few since. :wink:

not a bad thing i think

there would be no palmer without paradise, herceck without spain and the list goes on...

I know you were not trying to start any trouble, but it still is going to hurt the feelings of some of the people who paid a ridiculous amount for these cues thinking Tim made them. They will feel the same way you did about that Mottey, you wanted a cue made by Paul, irregardless who the apprentice was at that time. This information should be supplied to buy when they order a cue from a cue maker, and cue makers should not put their name on something they did not build. The market today reflects what Bob Frey's Sneaky Pete's are selling for and that is about half of a so called Scruggs Sneaky Pete is that fair, I don't think so.

This is a big part of the problem with this industry today. It is very hard for most people to separate those who are building cues and those who are assembling cues. We all know that the reason their are so many Sneaky Pete's around is because of the availability of pre-made unfinished blanks that can have a pin put in, some collars and a so called satin finish applied. I truly wish people could just be honest and let others know what they are buying. It just is not fair to those cue makers making their own blanks and questions about fair prices would not be an issue any longer. The general public is very confused about what they are buying when they spend their hard earned money and many people can't afford to get taken.

I certainly don't know what the answer is maybe some one should write a book for cue buyers that outlines the necessary questions to ask when you buy a cue from a Cue maker. I think such a book could make enough money to cover expenses, Dave I think I may have found the answer:thumbup2: hell I have nothing better to with my time!!!!!!!

 

[dave sutton]

I know you were not trying to start any trouble, but it still is going to hurt the feelings of some of the people who paid a ridiculous amount for these cues thinking Tim made them. They will feel the same way you did about that Mottey, you wanted a cue made by Paul, irregardless who the apprentice was at that time. This information should be supplied to buy when they order a cue from a cue maker, and cue makers should not put their name on something they did not build. The market today reflects what Bob Frey's Sneaky Pete's are selling for and that is about half of a so called Scruggs Sneaky Pete is that fair, I don't think so.

This is a big part of the problem with this industry today. It is very hard for most people to separate those who are building cues and those who are assembling cues. We all know that the reason their are so many Sneaky Pete's around is because of the availability of pre-made unfinished blanks that can have a pin put in, some collars and a so called satin finish applied. I truly wish people could just be honest and let others know what they are buying. It just is not fair to those cue makers making their own blanks and questions about fair prices would not be an issue any longer. The general public is very confused about what they are buying when they spend their hard earned money and many people can't afford to get taken.

I certainly don't know what the answer is maybe some one should write a book for cue buyers that outlines the necessary questions to ask when you buy a cue from a Cue maker. I think such a book could make enough money to cover expenses, Dave I think I may have found the answer:thumbup2: hell I have nothing better to with my time!!!!!!!

its called the blue book. and its outdated the second it goes to print.

cue assembler is like a slap in the face. stupidest term on this forum IMO.

possibly the greatest maker of all time. an innovator of the modern cue was a cue assembler.

it shouldnt matter if i make my own blanks or dont make pointed cues at all.

joe gold is not a cue assembler. i see plain cues with inlays - sometimes.

i understand your point tho. we agree

 

[manwon]

its called the blue book. and its outdated the second it goes to print.

cue assembler is like a slap in the face. stupidest term on this forum IMO.

possibly the greatest maker of all time. an innovator of the modern cue was a cue assembler.

it shouldnt matter if i make my own blanks or dont make pointed cues at all.

joe gold is not a cue assembler. i see plain cues with inlays - sometimes.

i understand your point tho. we agree

possibly the greatest maker of all time. an innovator of the modern cue was a cue assembler.

There is a very Big difference between Balabushka and the Cue Assemblers of today, in fact there is no comparison. George made his own tools, had a very simple lathe, Cut all his inlays by hand, and created designs that have never gone out of style. I seriously doubt that the Cue Assemblers of today could even complete Georges simplest designs using Georges equipment. Sorry, Dave but I am Laughing at that comparison!!!!!!!!!That is some funny shit!!!!!!!!

it shouldnt matter if i make my own blanks or dont make pointed cues at all.

Dave you are certainly right it should not matter at all, but as a customer people should know that up front. I build conversion cues, and cues without points myself, however, I personally make it clear to my customers so there is no confusion. I personally do want my work misrepresented in any way shape or form, I want my customers to appreciate my work for what it is. However, we both know this is not always what is happens here on this forum or in the real world and this is why there is a great deal of confusion concerning this subject.

cue assembler is like a slap in the face. stupidest term on this forum IMO.

Above is the only part of this subject that we have any disagreement on. While I agree that the term is kinda stupid it also serves a purpose, to me it should be used to identify those who claim to be something they are not. This term in my mind applies to those who in a deliberate manner attempt to take credit for work that is not their own for some form of self glorification and for profit. This behavior is what causes many of the problems and mistrust within segments of the general public. This mistrust and confusion hurts all people interested in building cues, because the public can't distinguish between the frauds and those truly trying to learn the craft. So, to me Cue Assembler is a usable term that helps identify rotten Wheat from young undeveloped grains of Wheat, and I am not talking about Eddie (Wheat Bucks) Wheat!!!!!:thumbup:

Take care Dave, thanks for the conversation and your thoughts on this subject.

 

[cuedaddy]

I have to agree that labeling a cue with your name does imply that you created, that you were the artist, however I think a very clear cut example of the opposite is the car industry. Times have changed, and marketing is a completely different animal. People are acustom and will even quarrel over there favorite car manufacturer. Ford , No Dodge, No GM.. When realy what they are buying is the assurance that that specific car manufacturer has built a car with the same quality standards as what they are acustom to from there history. In very few cases are the actual craftsmen of the product is rarely noted.. They are the blue collar factory workers, not willing to extend themselves to become that manufacturer, designer, etc. Rarely are the designers credited and the craftsmen. Shelby comes to mind... Is being the driving creative and quality controll, placing your name on the line less valuable than actually making the cue. It seems shallow to say that now that I know that this cue wasnt made by such and such, I always knew that it was not quality.. so Im going to sell it. If a cuemaker puts there name on a cue, It means SOMETHING?

I Will add that True Multi Million Dollar Manufacturers in the US as far as ive found, have ALL outsourced parts, components, labor at one time or another.. Market demand will sway all

The labor intensive process of turning a cue is a lot for one person to handle.

 

[cubswin]

The ts sneaky's were popular before Tim stopped selling them. He sold them in the last year for 210 shipped, at least that is what I paid him for a new one. We used to use them for break cues in the 80's, get them all day for 100 bucks. TS sneaky's were never expensive new, only sought after in the after market because they play great. Most sneaky's do play great though, at least the ones I've owned. Shaft wood is usually not the white, nice wood. Its sugar streaked, may have some run off, but for whatever reason most of them play well if purchased from someone with some idea of what a cue is.

I don't like to pay more than 350 new for one now, really try to get them for under 300. I've had probably 30 scruggs sneaky's, and sold them all for profits. Everyone of them played great. Don't know if its the small pin, the brass insert, the lack of collars, the balance, or what. Just know they hit great.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I just got a the sneaky that Leon Sly made for me. With an extra shaft and shipping, it came to $525 usd. A little over $700 in Canuckian dollars.
Leon makes his own blanks.
Was it worth it? You bet.

 

[conetip]

I just got a the sneaky that Leon Sly made for me. With an extra shaft and shipping, it came to $525 usd. A little over $700 in Canuckian dollars.
Leon makes his own blanks.
Was it worth it? You bet.

I am glad that you like your cue.
It is nice to know that there are people who appreciate good workmanship and materials.
Neil

 

[1pRoscoe]

Above is the only part of this subject that we have any disagreement on. While I agree that the term is kinda stupid it also serves a purpose, to me it should be used to identify those who claim to be something they are not. This term in my mind applies to those who in a deliberate manner attempt to take credit for work that is not their own for some form of self glorification and for profit. This behavior is what causes many of the problems and mistrust within segments of the general public. This mistrust and confusion hurts all people interested in building cues, because the public can't distinguish between the frauds and those truly trying to learn the craft. So, to me Cue Assembler is a usable term that helps identify rotten Wheat from young undeveloped grains of Wheat, and I am not talking about Eddie (Wheat Bucks) Wheat!!!!!:thumbup:

Wow, I think this also exactly describes someone who offers "rare pointed cues"........... when Prather has a sale....

 

[1holeaddict]

IMHO, any cue is worth what ever someone is willing to pay for it.
If i tried a cue that played really well for my style and had the hit/tone that i like, I'd try to buy it for what ever price that would make the owner ready to sell. (within my budget, of course)

I've seen people offer 1800 for a sneaky (no namer) because they loved the hit.
I've also seen big name cues go for way below their worth because they played so bad.

 

[Morgantownfats]

[
QUOTE=PDX;1719085]I personally think it is ridiculous what some people are paying for sneakies. A sneaky should not cost more than the price of a good shaft plus $100-150. That is with nothing but collars. Some of the best hitting cues that I have owned are/where sneakies. I paid $200 for a sneaky once, but that was because the shaft played like $500.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree here. Bob Frye makes one of the best hitting sneaky pete cues and his prices are very fair. $300 and up depending on collars and buttcap and wood choice. Tim Scruggs sneakies do play great I have owned a few but limited supply and great demand have driven the prices of his sneakies up. Even Tim will send ya to Bob for a Sneaky pete. I guess it all depends on the player and his or her own tastes. I suppose if ya can get $500 and up for a plain jane sneaky pete more power to ya
<--------------- Misses the Mottey Sneaky Pete I sold years ago for $200

 

[ratcues]

materials+labor(shop time)+% profit= price

schmelke blank < Bear blank < my blank

Why?

Labor and cost of materials.

 

[ridewiththewind]

If the maker is building his own blanks, then he should command a higher price for his cues. While building a blank is not rocket science, doing it well is another animal all together. It is material and time intensive. There is a lot of material waste that goes into making a full splice blank...which is why many makers would prefer to just buy a quality blank from someone who is already set up to make them. It can save them a lot of aggravation, and free them up to work on other cues. You don't just slap together a full splice blank and begin turning....there is a lot of time involved.

As to other makers commanding higher prices for cues crafted from a pre-made blank....well, there is something to be said for reputation and word-of-mouth. Many of these makers have paid their dues, and so can charge accordingly. Often, it is the case that these makers' cues are in such demand, that even their base-level cues command higher prices. A lot has to do with market trend...and the trend currently is that SP's from well known makers are getting higher $$$.

Lisa