What did I do?

[CTYankee]

CueTable Help

Hill-Hill against someone that usually kills me. I was feeling good until adrenaline got the best of me on the 8, and I ended up here. Both ball are snug to the rail... I line it up... take the shot... and I am in a world of pure joy as the 9 ball travels a smooth perfect trail along the foot rail into the pocket! But that joy fades quickly as I turn to watch my cue ball go straight into the top right hand pocket.

After my opponent left, I took this shot over and over again, but never scratched. Where did I hit the cue ball to send it to that evil... evil pocket?

 

[BPG24]

That shot is dead to scratch if you spin it in with a decent pace...

If you add a little high or low, then it would miss the pocket

 

[Southpaw]

Sounds like you put too much inside english on the cue ball. If the 9 is frozen, you can use just a high ball and still make it just as easy. JMO.

Southpaw

 

[Cuebacca]

Ball-first vs. rail-first, perhaps?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

CueTable Help

Hill-Hill against someone that usually kills me. I was feeling good until adrenaline got the best of me on the 8, and I ended up here. Both ball are snug to the rail... I line it up... take the shot... and I am in a world of pure joy as the 9 ball travels a smooth perfect trail along the foot rail into the pocket! But that joy fades quickly as I turn to watch my cue ball go straight into the top right hand pocket.

After my opponent left, I took this shot over and over again, but never scratched. Where did I hit the cue ball to send it to that evil... evil pocket?

You simply have to hit this with inside spin, go rail first and hope not to scratch. I mean, this is just one of those situations where things are going to happen one way or another and you take your chances. The possiblity you may make the 9-ball and scratch is there but worth taking. Going any other way dramatically increases the difficulty of making the shot.

 

[sjm]

CueTable Help

CueTable Help

 

[jsp]

Ball-first vs. rail-first, perhaps?

This is most likely the cuplrit.

I'm guessing for the shot you made in the match, you hit the OB first before the rail (or hit them both simultaneously) , and just happened to cut the ball perfectly.

If you hit the rail first before the OB, then the CB would come off more or less perpendicular to the rail.

 

[Neil]

.................

 

[CTYankee]

You simply have to hit this with inside spin, go rail first and hope not to scratch. I mean, this is just one of those situations where things are going to happen one way or another and you take your chances. The possiblity you may make the 9-ball and scratch is there but worth taking. Going any other way dramatically increases the difficulty of making the shot.

That is my thought as well... still feel I made the correct shot, just got a little english happy.

 

[CTYankee]

To scratch in the upper right corner, you had to have a little too much right english on it. What you need to do is set it up and shoot it a number of times with no english to max right to max left and get a feel for the shot. Sometimes you will still get burned, because different rails will take english differently.

Thanks for the advice. I have been shooting this shot non-stop since that match yesterday (I get a little obsessive about mistakes like this sometimes).

That is why it is so important to stay in line. Once out of line, all kinds of bad stuff can start to happen. And the 'easy' outs can quickly turn into nightmares.

Truer words have never been spoken. I find most of the time that I get out of line, it is due to speed. I have been working speed drills a lot lately, and hope to see results.

 

[Williebetmore]

I'm with jsp on this one. Grady Mathews teaches that when playing position on these type of rail shots it is critical to decide whether to hit the object ball first or the rail first (assuming your stroke is precise enough to deliver this correctly - on your diagrammed shot that is a tough order).

If you set up the shot with an easier cue ball position; you will see that hitting "ball first" the cue ball follows your scratch path forward. If you hit a credit cards width away from the object ball with inside spin, the cue ball will travel up the center of the table and avoid the scratch. Draw and follow complicate both scenarios; and add to your position options.

While this phenomenon has been described to me by several different pro's, I am not wholely convinced that we are really hitting "ball first" - it might just be a closer, rail first hit (I'd love to see Koehler or Jewett or JAL weigh in on this one). Anyway, the distinction is useful; because you definitely have options in your position play on most frozen object balls (at least if you leave yourself in a little more favorable cue ball position).

 

[poolhustler]

First off, you just got really unlucky !!! I'll bet anyone that they would not scratch more than 1 out 20 times on that particular shot, even if they tried.

I would hit that shot rail first with extreme right and the cue ball would hit above the side pocket.

Good shot to know.....

Russ

 

[RunoutalloverU]

man up and cut it in

 

[Bob Jewett]

CueTable Help

Hill-Hill against someone that usually kills me. I was feeling good until adrenaline got the best of me on the 8, and I ended up here. Both ball are snug to the rail... I line it up... take the shot... and I am in a world of pure joy as the 9 ball travels a smooth perfect trail along the foot rail into the pocket! But that joy fades quickly as I turn to watch my cue ball go straight into the top right hand pocket.

After my opponent left, I took this shot over and over again, but never scratched. Where did I hit the cue ball to send it to that evil... evil pocket?

I apologize for dragging up this old thread, but I noticed that several people were confused about the shot. If you use either no side spin or inside english, you must hit the cushion before you hit the ball. Further, hitting the cushion first is no guarantee that the cue ball will come off perpendicular to cushion. The reason for this is that the cue ball can be in the cushion when it hits the object ball, and if it is, the inside spin can still take after the object ball has left.

 

[Russ Chewning]

First off, you just got really unlucky !!! I'll bet anyone that they would not scratch more than 1 out 20 times on that particular shot, even if they tried.

I'll take that bet. You going to be at DCC? I might need about an hour's worth of practice prior. 20-1 sounds right, and the bet is $10 a shot, until the loser can't stands it nummore, as my good friend Popeye the Sailor Man sez..

I would hit that shot rail first with extreme right and the cue ball would hit above the side pocket.

Do you mean "above the side pocket", as in, to the LEFT of the side pocket? If so, you can get 7 to 1 on the money shooting this shot. I won't even count your misses. You just gotta hit the second rail to the left of the side pocket.

Russ

 

[Russ Chewning]

I apologize for dragging up this old thread, but I noticed that several people were confused about the shot. If you use either no side spin or inside english, you must hit the cushion before you hit the ball. Further, hitting the cushion first is no guarantee that the cue ball will come off perpendicular to cushion. The reason for this is that the cue ball can be in the cushion when it hits the object ball, and if it is, the inside spin can still take after the object ball has left.

Bob,

I have a question about this particular shot. Assuming that you DO, in fact, get a "ball first" hit on a shot of this nature, with extreme inside english, is it not possible for the CB, after it comes off the rail, to contact the OB again? The OB will only move slightly to the right on the intial ball first hit, and the CB will spin off the rail at a steeper angle, cutting the OB in, and allowing the CB to gain more forward angle than otherwise possible.

On the thinnest of hits with inside english, I always thought this is what happens, as to me, this is the only physics-based explanation for the CB gaining more spin on a "ball first" contact.

Just curious about your thoughts on this. Sorry if my explanation is too convoluted.

Thanks,

Russ

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Assuming that you DO, in fact, get a "ball first" hit on a shot of this nature, with extreme inside english, is it not possible for the CB, after it comes off the rail, to contact the OB again? The OB will only move slightly to the right on the intial ball first hit, and the CB will spin off the rail at a steeper angle, cutting the OB in, and allowing the CB to gain more forward angle than otherwise possible. ...

I think that such a double hit should be possible but unlikely. It might take a long time to capture it on high-speed video. The second hit could also take place while the cue ball was still in the cushion. It is quite common to play an inside english shot on a ball close to the cushion and get a second hit, but for a frozen ball, I'm not sure it would look much different than a normal rail-first hit. I might have seen such shots and not recognized them.