What do pool need now?

X Breaker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In response to the recent thread about having a new tour, it gets me thinking about what does pool really need?

I think most people would agree that pool players are not making enough money doing what they are good at, and they are the ones putting on the show. So, there is no question in my mind that our pros need to get paid much more than they do now.

In order to make pool popular, what else do pool need?

Other than paying pool players more, what else do we need to do, to create the popularity that pool/snooker has in Asia, and in the UK.

I would think some government sponsorship would help a great deal. But I also know that the chance of that happening is very slim.

I know in China now snooker players get paid a monthy salary so they can focus on practising and playing tournaments. I also know that XiaoTing Pan gets paid all her expenses, including that for a coach, by the Chinese government, and she gets to keep all her winnings. Ding is now a top snooker player in the world, and Pan is the World Champion.

Pool can be an interesting sports, look at all the live TV coverage in Asia and the UK of pool tournaments. People are all the same all over the world, so, it can be a very interesting sport to watch in the US as well.

My question is what, realistically, can the rest of us do, to promote pool, and make things hapen?

Thank you.
Richard
 

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
I like teaching. Just an hour of basic instruction can carry a beginner really far, past his buddies at the quarter table at least. If you're a pretty good player and has good fundamentals, take the time to help people who are starting to get into pool a little. Single out the beginners who are practicing alone (tactfully) and offer to play and then maybe offer to show them some things. If you ever roll into the room and there's nobody there you like to play, this would be a better use of your time than the video poker machine or whatever.
 

ceebee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Earl Munson, BCA Instructor, has started a High School Pocket Billiards program, in Texas. It is working well. There are also starts of other similar programs, in other states.

If Billiards (carom, snooker & pool) ever get a start in the Olympics, things will change quickly. Once the public has been re-introduced to High School & College Billiard champions, playing in the Olympics, the sport will see some real re-vitalization.

Any kind of activity needs honesty among the competitors. The competitors have to have character & personalities. Dennis Rodman would not have been good for Billiards, neither was Earl Strickland. Earl played very good, but his tyrades weren't good for the tournament world (JMHO). Please don't get me wrong here, I lke to see someone who is passionate about their playing ability, but I don't like someone resorting to insults & threats, because they are having a bad day. Everybody has bad days. A good & proper attitude for showing one's displeasure is sometimes good for rousing the audience.

You want money for high dollar Pool Tournaments, tell Frito-Lay, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Budweiser & so on. They really don't know what their customers want, unless they have been told, over & over. The SGMA says there are approximately 35 million players in this game, surely there is a company out there, who wants to sell their wares to this bunch....

Any chosen activity needs a fan base. Advertisers put money behind chosen activities that have large fan bases (future or present customers).
Get the attention of these companies & you will have some Professional Pool.
 

Hutchfish

Registered
If pool is going to make it back onto TV in the states with any sort of good ratings to attract paying advertisers(read: sponsor money/tourny payouts for the players), it's going to need something that will hold the attention of the viewing public while they sit on the couch with their bag-o-chips and dip.

Another poster a week or so ago mentioned the show "Pinks" for a suggestion. It sure does seem to be the trend lately for shows to have some kind of reality twist to them. Have you ever watched the show on SpikeTV called "Bull Run"? It's kinda like a rally race for people who prep their own cars, along with all the trails and tribulations of the course that's been set up for them across the country.

Personally, I have sit and watched pool on TV and it's kinda boring. Too many commercial breaks cause a lack of continuity in the match, the announcers are somewhat boring and seem to have the mind set that the people watching are total newbies to the game, thus they have to explain in excruciating detail every little nuance ad naseum.

Ever go to a strange bar where nobody knows you...without your pool cue...and just sit and watch a good match-up between two locals as a total stranger? For me, this is far more interesting to watch than what's on TV at the present time. I get to witness the personality of the players, the emotions, the smack talk, the skills, and the atmosphere of the place. Sometimes pool is about more than just the balls on the table, it's about the people holding the stick.

Heck, maybe a reality based show about a couple of guys with $300 start money on a road trip across the country from LA to NY having to seek out and play in small local tournys along the way to make it. Maybe they would only have so many days to get there, have to play in a given number of local tournys, or have check points to pass in a given amount of time. Possibly there could be something arranged for the person/team who got to the finish with the most money. Penalties could be assessed for losses in small tournys, missing timed check points, not finding enough tournys, or going broke on the road. Give the show a mission/goal, then give it a little drama, and you might have a winner.

This would get the show "out on the road" so to speak where everyday people would see it and be exposed to it.

Much as I hate to say it, top level pool on TV is just plain boring to most people. If it can be brought down to the level of the more common players and audiences, advertisers/sponsors could see the potential for a greater return on their advertising/sponsorship dollar.

Just my humble opinion.........:)
 

bigdaddygerald

big spoon weilder
Silver Member
pool is boring on tv for those that dont understand that making the ball your shooting at is the eazy part its position play that sets players apart.
so if people are going to go out of there way to spend time or money to watch in person or on tv it needs to be entertaining......let the inner gambler come out in tour players....shark alittle.....talk trash while your shooting .....pump the crowds up.....most entertaining match i ever saw was two guys that couldnt play dead.....talking more smack too each other ........man i was rolling...woulda bought a ticket for that...but i got to see it in a pool room for free
 

Craig Fales

Registered bubinga user
Silver Member
bigdaddygerald said:
pool is boring on tv for those that dont understand that making the ball your shooting at is the eazy part its position play that sets players apart.
so if people are going to go out of there way to spend time or money to watch in person or on tv it needs to be entertaining......let the inner gambler come out in tour players....shark alittle.....talk trash while your shooting .....pump the crowds up.....most entertaining match i ever saw was two guys that couldnt play dead.....talking more smack too each other ........man i was rolling...woulda bought a ticket for that...but i got to see it in a pool room for free
I don't think WWE and pool would be a good mix...
 

bigdaddygerald

big spoon weilder
Silver Member
Craig Fales said:
I don't think WWE and pool would be a good mix...
I agree however WWE is a viable marketable product where as pool is just hard to watch on tv and thats where the money is. Pool players are characters, almost all of them and the current format doesnt allow that to shine, In my opinion thats the entertainment value.
 

RRfireblade

Grammer Are For Stupids
Silver Member
Nothing you can do. It's not a big money spectator sport , never was , never will be.

All 'indivudual' sports are extremely difficult to make a living at if your not of the top players in the world. Pool is just one of many. Tennis , Golf , even Bowling. Entrance fees , travel expenses , accomodations , equiptment , trainers , practice/court time , apparel . . . it goes on and on. Pool might actually require some of the least financial investment to compete professionally in. A cue ,a night at the "6" and entry fees and your good to go. The payouts are expectedly going to fall in line accordingly.
 

3andstop

Focus
Silver Member
I often wondered about how golf got so popular and has such huge payouts.

I think it boils down to exposure and I think TV is the fastest way. Look at poker, once it got TV exposure it became popular. I think if you had enough TV air time of people using hoola-hoops, everybody would be doing that in a few weeks.

What we need is an organization that would put something like a billiard channel on TV 24-7. I don't think it even has to be an all pro thing. Local tourneys may even be interesting. I don't know, I just feel lots of exposure the way poker became so popular would work well for pool also.
 

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
An important part of the equation is obviously getting live tournaments on television at primetime. There are people who would watch pool if it was on when they watch tv. But pool is broadcasted either when people are at work or on a saturday afternoon when people would rather be outside or hanging out with friends or family.

Advertising in media outlets outside of the pool world would be another good start. I never see any advertising when a pro tournament comes to town, it's as though we want to keep it a secret.

Do away with the alternate break format, make the races long enough that you don't have to worry about one player not getting any chances. We want players running multiple racks, that shows off how great the players are, not the occassional break and run because they can't get dialed in enough to run out consistently.

Perhaps a change in the presentation of tournament broadcasts. I enjoy the World Pool Championship 2 hour highlight package. You get 4 matches in 2 hours it's great for the attention span.

If they are doing a live showing, they should try focusing on two or three matches and switch between them. That way you get to follow 4 or 6 players, and they can switch away when Johnny Archer is busy cleaning the table.

Anyway just some random thoughts.
 

hackerda

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As far as pool on TV. Yes, it is very boring. Lately if I have seen a match before, about 10 minutes into it, I'm asleep. There are too many replays. I have never been dissapointed in the IPT coverage. This is no endorsement for IPT, but I never felt bored like I do when I watch pool on ESPN. A commentator who is passionate and maybe sometimes gets a little verbal (not berating) while things are going on. Make the game personal. Show an entire tournament or possibly tour. Pick a few from different skill levels (not just pros) and show some junior talent also. Talk about equipment, who made it/where it came from. Endorsements for cue makers (not mass produced), cases, upcoming tournaments, ect. Give every squirrel a nut on this one. I agree with getting pool into the Olympics. Not just one game, but many different types. Stick with core games, 14:1, 8-ball, and 10-ball (I like it better than 9, IMHO).

dean
 

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
I thought the reality TV idea was excellent. Have a camera follow a sort of midlevel pro, someone most people haven't heard of, and do something similar to the book "playing off the rail" where the camera follows a couple of guys who are trying to make a decent score travelling around. There's a lot of stuff that I think people would find really entertaining... woofing and arranging weight, the backers, the idea of getting into a guy's head and forcing him to bet up or back down... the colorful railbirds... maybe get some actual hustling on-camera. I don't think I've ever seen hustling on TV that wasn't fictional. I've seen actual deaths, actual sex, but not actual hustling. Maybe we could see a shooter actually flip out when he realize he's been suckered :p

We shouldn't underestimate the power of media in making pool more popular. All it takes is one good book, movie, or TV show (e.g. the color of money)
 

Gerry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Previous big booms obviously came from movies, why? IMO because it showed what pool can be about away from playing in a bar, or at the bowling alley. Maybe we forget that 99.9% of the public know NOTHING from backers, dumping, weight, etc. and cheezy as a few parts of the movies were, they were GREAT for a pool player or Joe banger to watch together.

I'm part of the "TCOM" boom though I have played my whole life, it brought me back into the rooms. The "old guys" in the rooms at that time were part of the "Hustler" boom from years gone by. So now we need a GOOD pool movie to get the next generation into the rooms so I/we TCOM'ers can school the next generation on the finer points of the game.

I had a conversation the other day with my friend about how great it was back in the day walking into any of 5 or 6 rooms, knowing most people there, and being able to sweat a match any time day or night!....MAN! those were fun days...

Gerry
 

rlw

...............
Silver Member
what pool needs is recognition outside of the world of pool. It needs espn sportscenter to carry the results of major tournaments also local tv sports to report on the results of major tournaments. Until pool can get recognition outside of the the world of pool it will never grow to the height's that other sports have achieved.
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It is true that pool enjoyed some popularity after the pool-related movies like TCOM and The Hustler. Of course, having Paul Newman star in them was a big help, AND the movies were well directed, et cetera. TCOM was Paul Newman's first Academy Award win.

I wrote this is another post, but I thought I would mention it here.

Today, the most recognized American pool player is Jeanette Lee. She has worked very hard at promoting the sport, puts on exhibitions, has an agent, and is doing everything right to get her name out there.

However, in the year 2007, there is still a big hole as far as a recognized celebrity in pool, if you will.

In order for pool to catch on and attract mainstream America, there needs to be a celebrity pool personality. In the '70s, it was Mosconi and Minnesota Fats. They were shown on TV numerous times, and their so-called feud was one of the biggest attractions. People liked seeing Willie getting annoyed with Fats, and Fats loved to needle Willie at every opportunity. It was entertainment, if you will, combined with pool. Willie Mosconi represented the gentleman characteristic of pocket billiards, and Minnesota Fats never, never, never hid the fact that he was a pool hustler. AND Fats didn't even play the game as well as some of the pool champions of that era, but yet he was in demand because of his colorful personality and entertainment value.

Steve Mizerak brought pool into mainstream America in the early '80s with those Miller beer commercials. They were fun, and people enjoyed Mizerak's sense of humor. Plus, he could shoot pool and would perform trick shots, et cetera, in addition to the commercials.

The key here is PERSONALITY. Pool is boring because it has no personality in America. Philippines, on the other hand, pool is their national sport. Pool will never rise in the ranks of the sports ladder here in the States because of baseball, football, basketball, golf, tennis, just to name a few. They will always be more popular than pool. HOWEVER, if pool gets a personality and can ENTERTAIN the American public, I think it would have a chance to grow. JMHO, FWIW.

JAM
 

PeteW

Registered
When I think about this, I keep coming back to Golf. Professional pool and professional golf are very similar, but golf has money and tv time.

With the PGA, there isn't much time to really highlite the players' personalities during a match. Yet people will sit down and watch 6 hours of golf on tv over the weekend, why?

The challenges pool faces with making TV interesting are the same as with professional golf. They both have long matches (assuming we do more than a race to 5 or 7), they both have strokes/swings that look nearly identicle to the novice, and neither showcase the colorful personalities of the players.

Here are a few ideas that come to mind when I think of what needs to be done to pool on tv to bring it more in line with golf:
1. Air multiple matches at one time and switch between them. This would allow showing an entire tournament instead of just a match.
2. Air a game more interesting to watch than 9-ball. 8-ball at least gives the novice a quick way to tell who is winning a rack, and more people are familiar with the game (personally I would love to see 14.1).
3. Spend time creating good montages for the different players showing them get excited and worked up and include their titles.
4. Spread the montages out and interject them about different players throughout the hour or two hour tv show.
5. Find corporate sponsors to shell out some dough. This is not solely for the pros to make a better living (although that is desperately needed), but it is much more exciting to watch a $100,000 putt compared to a $10,000 putt for the audience.
6. Add exhibition tables or racks - I am thinking along the lines of the Buick classic where players can win a car by chipping in on a certain hole or making a hole in one, etc.

I think if we try to mirror the PGA and if we can get tournament results into SportsCenter and, more importantly, the evening news we will gain popularity. The one thing I took as a given and did not list was having players with big personalities and a "presence". We really need a poster child to pin up everywhere and get on the talkshow circuit to promote the sport and its televised tournaments (think Tiger Woods).
 

MrLucky

Pool Fanatic!!
Silver Member
RRfireblade said:
Nothing you can do. It's not a big money spectator sport , never was , never will be.

All 'indivudual' sports are extremely difficult to make a living at if your not of the top players in the world. Pool is just one of many. Tennis , Golf , even Bowling. Entrance fees , travel expenses , accomodations , equiptment , trainers , practice/court time , apparel . . . it goes on and on. Pool might actually require some of the least financial investment to compete professionally in. A cue ,a night at the "6" and entry fees and your good to go. The payouts are expectedly going to fall in line accordingly.

I have thought a lot about why Golf which is in my opinion albeit a popular sport it, like, pool is like observing paint dry for most viewers but Golfers spend so much more money on their hobby / sport than is required in pool ! ie: course memberships ! multiple high price clubs, greens fees and time investment. So manufacturers throw much more money into endorsements and sponsorships since their return is so much higher! :eek: If Nike and Reebock ecetera were involved in Pool we would see much more going on in pushing this sport.
 

RRfireblade

Grammer Are For Stupids
Silver Member
MrLucky said:
I have thought a lot about why Golf which is in my opinion albeit a popular sport it, like, pool is like observing paint dry for most viewers but Golfers spend so much more money on their hobby / sport than is required in pool ! ie: course memberships ! multiple high price clubs, greens fees and time investment. So manufacturers throw much more money into endorsements and sponsorships since their return is so much higher! :eek: If Nike and Reebock ecetera were involved in Pool we would see much more going on in pushing this sport.

A big part of it , TV wise , is that people want to be impressed with what they see. Pool looks easy on TV , in fact I'll go ahead and say that most players from beginner to advanced feel they could make any pool shot with enough practice. I doubt any pool player has seen a shot made in conventional pool and thought "I have no idea how to attempt that".

That's also why ladies sports (entertainment and sponser wise) fall way behind the men. Most participants probably feel they could do what the ladies do but are far more impressed worth the men.

Sports like pro golf and tennis , people watch cause they are amazed at the display of skill. I'm no pro level pool player but I'm not exceptionally impressed with high level play. What I mean is I (perhaps wrongfully so :) ) feel that if I could put the same amount of time into the game I could be right there. I play at a scratch level in golf but know I wouldn't last 5 minutes with a pro. The game is just to hard.

Lastly , theres no real suprise to pool on tv. Everyone knows what the layout will be after the break , the issues to deal with and how it will be delt with give or take an optional shot. The only suprise is if someone misses an easy shot. :) Theres just no real drama most of the time , no excitement , no thrills.
 

seymore15074

So what are you saying?
Silver Member
RRfireblade said:
Lastly , theres no real suprise to pool on tv. Everyone knows what the layout will be after the break , the issues to deal with and how it will be delt with give or take an optional shot. The only suprise is if someone misses an easy shot. :) Theres just no real drama most of the time , no excitement , no thrills.

The thrills are up to the player. The player, will not put an ounce into playing fun, entertaining, or adventurous shots as long as they are trying to win... The more money, the less entertaining.
 
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