What do you consider weight?

PROG8R

PROG8R

Gator Nation
Silver Member
I have a bunch of people here that think the last two or three is a lot of weight to give up. I think it is junk! When I can get out of the rack the majority of the time the last 3 will not help you, and if I can't get out, you are not going to be able to see one of the last two. I watched a APA 7 get his butt handed to him in a match where he was getting the last 5 balls and the breaks. I was told that break ball in hand was the nuts, maybe, if you can run out from the break every time. Is a wild ball weight? I usually try to take that ball out of play right away so it wont help. I feel very strong about not giving up the last 3 if they negoiate that they don't have to shoot them, that to me is the nutts bet. Because you better not mess up. Just asking, if you were outclasses, what would you want to make it even?
 
PROG8R said:
I have a bunch of people here that think the last two or three is a lot of weight to give up. I think it is junk! When I can get out of the rack the majority of the time the last 3 will not help you, and if I can't get out, you are not going to be able to see one of the last two. I watched a APA 7 get his butt handed to him in a match where he was getting the last 5 balls and the breaks. I was told that break ball in hand was the nuts, maybe, if you can run out from the break every time. Is a wild ball weight? I usually try to take that ball out of play right away so it wont help. I feel very strong about not giving up the last 3 if they negoiate that they don't have to shoot them, that to me is the nutts bet. Because you better not mess up. Just asking, if you were outclasses, what would you want to make it even?
Click to expand...

Weight means any spotted advantage.

With really good players, the last two is just a tiny bit of wieght, but the last three is worth quite a bit more. Each spot grows in value on a really tight table.

Extra money balls as weight are worth more, as they can be combod or caromed out of sequence to win the rack. A "wild" money ball is one that doens't have to be called to count as a win, and also represents weight.

With good players, games on the wire is the preferred weight.

Nobody can give up break ball in hand to a good player. That's two much wieght.

The answer to your question, therefore, is that I want games on the wire as my weight when I'm outclassed.
 
It depends on how tall you are. I am 6'1" so my weight is 220 and thats not that much. But if I were 320, some might say that is a lot of weight. ;)
 
sjm said:
Weight means any spotted advantage.

With really good players, the last two is just a tiny bit of wieght, but the last three is worth quite a bit more. Each spot grows in value on a really tight table.

Extra money balls as weight are worth more, as they can be combod or caromed out of sequence to win the rack. A "wild" money ball is one that doens't have to be called to count as a win, and also represents weight.

With good players, games on the wire is the preferred weight.

Nobody can give up break ball in hand to a good player. That's two much wieght.

The answer to your question, therefore, is that I want games on the wire as my weight when I'm outclassed.
Click to expand...


Why ? Games on the wire are far easier for a better player to overcome..Balls are random every game lucky stuff can happen or if you can run balls you can get out easy.....If the game is real close a game on the wire can give you the edge...It about honestly handicapping your game and your opponent to figure out what is going to work the best for you.....

Way outclassed I want Balls and Games
Somewhat outclassed Balls
Even or nearly even games
Better than opponet will negotiate...
 
The Kiss said:
Why ? Games on the wire are far easier for a better player to overcome..Balls are random every game lucky stuff can happen or if you can run balls you can get out easy.....If the game is real close a game on the wire can give you the edge...It about honestly handicapping your game and your opponent to figure out what is going to work the best for you.....

Way outclassed I want Balls and Games
Somewhat outclassed Balls
Even or nearly even games
Better than opponet will negotiate...
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I'm just sharing my own views based on my own experiences.
 
I'd rather give games and make a weaker player run out the rack same as me. wild balls, giving away the break, spotting balls, always seems to get me in trouble, when a weaker player bangs at money balls I invariably get shnookered.....as Allen Hopkins would say:D

Gerry
 
sjm said:
...
The answer to your question, therefore, is that I want games on the wire as my weight when I'm outclassed.
Click to expand...
So do I, depending. One local pro thought that three on the wire in a race to seven was about the same as the wild eight ball. He was wrong.

I think the main advantages of games on the wire is that it's much easier to adjust the spot and the spot holds up better across equipment and skill changes. By the latter, I mean that the wild eight is a very different spot among hackers than among pros. 3 games on 11 is more "constant" for the two cases.

By the former, I mean that if you are playing on a tight table and giving up the eight, it's a larger spot than if you are playing on a loose table where you can run out more easily. I think that games on the wire don't change so much with tighter conditions.
 
sjm said:
... The answer to your question, therefore, is that I want games on the wire as my weight when I'm outclassed.
Click to expand...
One other point that I think Ron Shepard just made on RSB is that with games on the wire, the weaker player has to learn the real game. That's better for him in the long run. He can't be tempted to ride the spot balls with smash and pray tactics.
 
I think that games is the way to go here as well. I personally do not take weight from anyone. I figure that if I win with the weight, it wasn't a "real win". I tend to gamble with people of my ability or a little better. I would rather get roasted by a top notch player and see truly where my game is than get a win and have a false high. Yes that makes me stubborn in peoples eyes but it's just the way I am......lol
 
Any advantage, no matter how small you think it is, is still an advantage. However, the significance of the advantage, or weight, changes signicicantly based on the speeds of the players.

For example:

If one D player is spotting anohter D player the last 2, that is a HUGE amount of wieght. Both players suck and are going to have multiple innings on the last 2 balls. I believe one money ball is a huge amount of weight to give out UNLESS you are a run-out player. I will say up to a B- speed, that giving one money ball, even as seemingly insignificant as the 8 is a large amount of weight.
 
PROG8R said:
I have a bunch of people here that think the last two or three is a lot of weight to give up. I think it is junk! When I can get out of the rack the majority of the time the last 3 will not help you, and if I can't get out, you are not going to be able to see one of the last two. I watched a APA 7 get his butt handed to him in a match where he was getting the last 5 balls and the breaks. I was told that break ball in hand was the nuts, maybe, if you can run out from the break every time. Is a wild ball weight? I usually try to take that ball out of play right away so it wont help. I feel very strong about not giving up the last 3 if they negoiate that they don't have to shoot them, that to me is the nutts bet. Because you better not mess up. Just asking, if you were outclasses, what would you want to make it even?
Click to expand...

The proper weight should require the player giving the weight to have to come with his best game to win.
 
Spotting someone balls depends on what level the players are at. At the pro level, the 8 ball doesn't really mean anything. One pro spotting another pro the 8, the person spotting the 8 is actually considered to have a mental advantage on the pro recieving it. One game out of 10-15 might come up where the 8-ball (in a game of 9-ball) meant winning or losing that game. I have seen pros match up where one gets the 7-out, but when asked for 1 game to 7 in exchange, they flat out refuse.
 
I'm in agreement with SJM and others that the "on the wire" spot is more weight, with exceptions, of course. I can't remember seeing a pro-level player giving "wire-weight", but I've sure seen a lot them giving decent players the 7 out and just trading their 3, 4 and 5-packs for the lesser players' 2 and 3 packs. The game almost all pros like the best is giving seemingly crazy weight to an average player with a little dog in him - the pro ALWAYS wins. I think the hardest weight a good (not shortstop level) player can give out is the last 4; that spot really seems to bring out the dog in the person giving it and seems to give the "spottee" more heart than they've actually got (most of the action I see is on a tight Gandy that's tough to break and run out on, so I may be skewed on the last 4 thing a little). Patrick Henry said it best: "Give me liberty, or give me two on the wire".
 
PROG8R said:
I have a bunch of people here that think the last two or three is a lot of weight to give up. I think it is junk! When I can get out of the rack the majority of the time the last 3 will not help you, and if I can't get out, you are not going to be able to see one of the last two. I watched a APA 7 get his butt handed to him in a match where he was getting the last 5 balls and the breaks. I was told that break ball in hand was the nuts, maybe, if you can run out from the break every time. Is a wild ball weight? I usually try to take that ball out of play right away so it wont help. I feel very strong about not giving up the last 3 if they negoiate that they don't have to shoot them, that to me is the nutts bet. Because you better not mess up. Just asking, if you were outclasses, what would you want to make it even?
Click to expand...

Among good players, the last two is no weight. It's just a mental spot. Better to decline and play even.

When there is a serious difference in skill levels, it's hard to find a spot that is enough. When one player is running out and not missing, it makes no difference how many balls they are giving up.

I think the fairest is "games on the wire" in a race. But to give a fair number can get ridiculous. An "A" player might have to give a "B" player 5 games on the wire in a race to 9 to truly be fair, and a "C" player might need 7 games. Whose going to give up that?

I had two recent episodes where I gave up balls. I gave a guy the wild 7 and 8 in a race to 11. I was hot and he only won one 1 game. Another guy asked me for the same spot and wanted to play by the game. I won 9 games in a row and he quit. I only recall once being beaten when i was giving up weight, and it was because I played bad and would have lost even.

I understand that two wild balls is supposed to equate to 3 games or so on the wire in a race to 11. If the player giving up weight breaks down and starts missing money balls, then the spot does make a big dfference.
The person getting the weight has to put heat on the one giving it up, or the weight won't matter.

Does spotting 50 to 100 in straight pool sound like a big spot? If there is much of a difference between the players, it's not a big spot at all. I would say it's like giving up two balls in 9 ball.

Chris
 
Last edited:
I have seen some crazy "Weight" given to just make the game even,

Like getting the last 4 on a 9ft table.

I seen a guy give up the last two and the breaks, and still WIN. Against a APA 7 rated 9ball player.

About 18months ago a guy i knew wanted to gamble with me, and we was both at best, B- players. And before i could even say no, he was like i'll give you 4games and the breaks in a race to 9 lol.

First two sets i killed him 9-2,9-4.

He then says, ok, now u get just two games and the breaks and i still ended up beating him 9-5. after that he quit and had to get money from his GF lol.

Most of the time i just find guys who are equal in skills or a bit better and just play even, and if i win, good, if not,, oh well, i try again.

dave
 
> Nick Varner told me in reference to giving weight that if you can beat the opponent you've chosen 75% of the time even,you should be able to give that same player anything up to and including the wild 5 ball by itself and still beat them. Giving up weight to closely matched players and playing well enough to outrun it builds character and heart. Tommy D.
 
I disagree

macguy said:
The proper weight should require the player giving the weight to have to come with his best game to win.
Click to expand...

I completely disagree with this above statement. It is just the exact opposite. The player getting the weight should come with his best game to win. That is what Pool is all about anyway. Lessor players getting better.
It's called 'Stepping up', and it's how 'up and comers' are made. And nobody
can play their 'best game' all the time, whether giving or receiving weight.
 
Snapshot9 said:
I completely disagree with this above statement. It is just the exact opposite. The player getting the weight should come with his best game to win. That is what Pool is all about anyway. Lessor players getting better.
It's called 'Stepping up', and it's how 'up and comers' are made. And nobody
can play their 'best game' all the time, whether giving or receiving weight.
Click to expand...

well put!....nobody should make a gambling game and have to play at top gear to win, it's just bad policy....Like Grady sais.....you should try to leave at least a 1-1/2 ball cusion for yourself...(thats in 1pocket)

Gerry
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top