What do you think about this situation - was I in the wrong here?

BillPorter

BillPorter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was at the pool hall earlier and was talking about having won a bet on the shot depicted below. 25 years ago a guy told me he didn't think I could make the shot (cutting the 5 ball into the upper left corner pocket) no matter how many times I tried it. I suggested that if he didn't think I could EVER make the shot, then he should be willing to bet against me making it in a hundred tries. So he did make the bet and I speared the shot in after about 30 tries.

So today a guy offers to bet me $20 that I can't make it in 45 tries on a tough 9 foot Diamond table. I said I'd need more than 45 tries and he says I can have as many tries as the dollars that I am willing to bet. So I toss a $100 bill on the table and say I'll take 100 tries. I didn't think he'd take me up on the bet, but he did.

Well, I'm jacking up and trying to fire semi-masse shots down at the five ball and due to a somewhat glazed over tip (and my less than straight stroke), I am misscuing fairly often and not even coming close to making the shot. I tell him I may have to change to another cue and he says, "No, you have to use the same equipment."

Now I am up to 60 shots and still haven't gotten close and I'm not optimistic about this bet. I hear someone say that I would have as good a chance kicking a the ball as shooting straight at it. So I figure, what the heck, if he lets me kick at it, that gives me a chance and I start kicking at the ball off the side rail.

He seems unhappy that I am now kicking at the shot and says he doesn't think that is the bet we made. I say that I never specified how I would shoot the shot and he doesn't argue about it.

On attempt number 80 I kick the ball into the corner and pick up the cash. He says he doesn't feel it was fair the way I won the bet, so I offer to hand him his money back. He doesn't take it. I offer to take 60 tries at the shot shooting straight at it with my other cue. He says he doesn't want that bet and suggests that he doesn't want any action with me from here on.

What do you think?

CueTable Help

 
keep the money

I think he was unhappy you made the shot and won. He may not have expected you to make it that way, but he didn't call the bet off either. If you had not made it on your 80th shot, and after 100 shots, I'm sure he would've taken your money. So he won't bet with you any more? So you haven't lost any good action, IMHO. Seems like sour grapes to me. If you're concerned about hard feelings, you could give him his money back, but I don't think he deserves to have it back.
 
youre not in the wrong at ALL

i woulda let you change cues, do whatever you wanted to... its not like he ever specified it could only be with one cue taht you try!
 
Bill

In your second sentence describing this...in parentheses you use the words "cutting the 5 ball into the upper left corner pocket"...

If you made the bet using those words then I would say that you did not win the bet...

But if you didn't bet on how the shot would be made...just call the ball and the pocket...then imo you won your bet.

And then in another sentence you say "if he lets me kick at it"...did you ask if that was acceptable??...and if he said that it was...then you absolutely won the bet imo.

Mike
 
You have every right to pocket his cash if it was never specified how the ball was to be pocketed.

What even funnier is that if he had allowed you to switch cues, you probably would have kept trying to make the ball with the masse/spin shot and never would have made it.

He would have won the bet and been in your pocket.

He's the fool, congrats on making the ball...:thumbup:
 
BillPorter said:
I say that I never specified how I would shoot the shot and he doesn't argue about it.
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If he made the offer for you to try the shot after seeing your previous attempt at it or after hearing you discuss it, then you both knew good and well what you were betting on and it was wrong to try to change it midway through. He would have every right to be upset. To say "but I never specified" when you both knew exactly what you were betting on is not any different than when somebody tries to pull the "but we didn't shake on it" move.

Now if you had gone up to him and said I can make this ball in this corner with the cue ball here and nothing else was discussed then he is the one in the wrong because it was never spelled out and there wasn't a previous shot that you were both referencing from.

No matter which way it happened though, once he allowed you to continue kicking at it and didn't say that the bet was off, then once you made it he owed you the money. I have a feeling that he decided not to dispute it further and call the bet off because he still didn't like your chances and that he would have been happy to pocket the cash had you not succeeded. I could be wrong.
 
Just ask yourself how YOU were trying to make it orginally.

I believe you had no intentions of ever kicking the ball.


I would have just changed equipment because that is not a big deal and did not appear to be discussed beforehand.


Not sure why he did not take the 100 back. Pretty sure I would just give him the 100 and say that I didnt want any hard feelings.
 
Shortside K said:
I don't think you'd be asking here if you were comfortable with the way you won.
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You're right. The guy I won the bet from, I consider him a friend and I could see he was unhappy about the outcome of the bet. On the other hand, as another poster pointed out, he was willing to let me continue to try kicking the ball in and would have gladly taken my $100 if I had failed to make the shot.
 
Mike_Mason said:
And then in another sentence you say "if he lets me kick at it"...did you ask if that was acceptable??...and if he said that it was...then you absolutely won the bet imo.

Mike
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No, I didn't ask if it was acceptable. I just started trying to make the shot by kicking at it. I expected him to protest about the kicking, but he made only a mild statement, not a real protest. I believe he thought he would still win the bet at that point.
 
BillPorter said:
You're right. The guy I won the bet from, I consider him a friend and I could see he was unhappy about the outcome of the bet. On the other hand, as another poster pointed out, he was willing to let me continue to try kicking the ball in and would have gladly taken my $100 if I had failed to make the shot.
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IMHO - you were right... and wrong.

The bet was, as stated, cut the ball in - kicking would not be ok.

BUT, saying you can't change cues is ludicrous.
If it were me, the bet is off at that point.

Dale
 
frankncali said:
Just ask yourself how YOU were trying to make it orginally.

I believe you had no intentions of ever kicking the ball.


I would have just changed equipment because that is not a big deal and did not appear to be discussed beforehand.


Not sure why he did not take the 100 back. Pretty sure I would just give him the 100 and say that I didnt want any hard feelings.
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No, of course I had no intention of kicking at the ball. And I will probably speak to him in private and offer to give him his money back if he really feels/believes that I cheated him on the bet.
 
pdcue said:
IMHO - you were right... and wrong.

The bet was, as stated, cut the ball in - kicking would not be ok.

BUT, saying you can't change cues is ludicrous.
If it were me, the bet is off at that point.

Dale
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Yes, I think my irritation at his saying I couldn't change cues may have been a factor in my decision to try kicking at the ball. I think now that he didn't take the money back when I offered it to him was because he thought that somehow he would lose face if he took it back there in public.
 
Bill,Ill offer my opinion based on your one post ( I did not read the thread,so if others disagree whatever).

that I am now kicking at the shot and says he doesn't think that is the bet we made
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You both knew the bet.You made it.He paid.Honerable fwiw on his part....but do you think he was giving you 100 kicks? Did you think he ever thought he was? Answer honestly an you will find the right conclusion as to why ,in his mind,you are bad action.

Just one mans opinion.
 
Off the subject but that shot is tough when the cue ball is froze to the end rail. Probably an even money shot if the cue ball is sitting on the rail or a 1 in 10 if the cue ball is out from the rail. I used to make a lot of money getting 5 to 1 shooting off the top of the rail.

Dick
 
You were both wrong, him for not letting you change your cue, and you for changing the bet when you started kicking.

Talk to him in private, explain that you think both of you were wrong.

Then you can either give him back the 100 and call it off (which would probably be best) or you can figure out how many shots you had taken when you wanted to change cues and then thats how many shots you should get with the cue you wanted to switch to.

Friends can gamble without problems, in a small pool playing community they often have to. But letting bad feelings arise froma silly bet like this would be stupid.

You really didnt want to bet, cause you said you didnt think he would take it. He probably felt like he had to take the bet or lose face because you challenged him when you through out the money.

I got myself into a game with a good friend over a misunderstanding, for much more than we would normally play. Even after I won I felt like $#^&.

Woody
 
you are not in the wrong.

if you had made a statement about "cutting the ball" instead of just calling the pocket, then you should have been in the wrong, but he did not cry foul. he had a chance to call off the bet but did not. prob because he still thought he had a good chance to get the $$(or he gave you some leeway as a friend), and since he dint call it off/made strict the rules, then he lost the chance. (by the same logic you could have called off the bet when he dint allow you to change cues, but you figured you had some chance kicking at it, so you dint call it off).

if you had just called pocket, he shouldnt have anything to complain about.

he made good his bet, he knew what he betted against, and why he did not call off the bet, as did you. that being said it is a lose-lose situation, where $100 gained doesnt really translate to satisfaction :) i would have taken the $100 to respect the bet, but will want to speak to him in private about what both of you thought about the bet, not so much as to offer him back the $100. I think both of you will enjoy betting against each other, so make clear the rules in the future, and work things out, a good dinner + drinks should do it.
 
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