What exactly is a Radial pin?

J

jphaxx

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Hey there guys. I'm curious to know what exactly a radial pin is. Do radials typically have a standard width and thread per inch count? I'm wondering because I have a cue that uses a "radial pin" (see cell phone crappy pics below) but if I measure it out, its a 3/8 x 8. Does radial refer to the way the butt mates to the shaft? Thanks in advance for all your help

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> The Radial pin is an adaptation of a ball-screw thread,that is used to control backlash on machine tools like lathes and mills,although some of the research I did shows that this thread type also has surgical applications.

The real-deal pins are made by the same company that makes the Uni-Loc,and Bill Stroud of Joss West is generally credited for pioneering it in cue joints.

The reason it's called a radial thread is because the grooves have a specific RADIUS in the form,rather than a flat-bottomed Acme type or V-groove thread.

The Uni-Loc pins are 7.634 threads per inch,rather than a true 7 1/2 or 8.

A radius in correct terms is 1/2 of a full circle. The radius on the pins is .1309,just a couple of hairs bigger than a 1/8 radius,or a little bigger than half of a 1/4 circle.

I haven't seen one,but knowledgable people here have run into a Chinese import knock-off that is close but not quite the same,causing compatibility issues. There is also a hard-to-come-by tap for that one. There are no real shortage of taps for the Uni-Loc version,they are just expensive and only available to the public from places like Atlas or cuemakers like Mike Webb,who has taps for practically anything. Tommy D.
 
Radial

Tommy-D said:
> The Radial pin is an adaptation of a ball-screw thread,that is used to control backlash on machine tools like lathes and mills,although some of the research I did shows that this thread type also has surgical applications.

The real-deal pins are made by the same company that makes the Uni-Loc,and Bill Stroud of Joss West is generally credited for pioneering it in cue joints.

The reason it's called a radial thread is because the grooves have a specific RADIUS in the form,rather than a flat-bottomed Acme type or V-groove thread.

The Uni-Loc pins are 7.634 threads per inch,rather than a true 7 1/2 or 8.

A radius in correct terms is 1/2 of a full circle. The radius on the pins is .1309,just a couple of hairs bigger than a 1/8 radius,or a little bigger than half of a 1/4 circle.

I haven't seen one,but knowledgable people here have run into a Chinese import knock-off that is close but not quite the same,causing compatibility issues. There is also a hard-to-come-by tap for that one. There are no real shortage of taps for the Uni-Loc version,they are just expensive and only available to the public from places like Atlas or cuemakers like Mike Webb,who has taps for practically anything. Tommy D.
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Great explenation. Butterflycues
 
The pin in your pics appears to be the Chinese knock-off and not a true Uni-Loc Radial pin.
 
Radial pin

The post by Tommy B was mostly correct. The radial pins from China are not interchangeable with American radials. One objection though is the statement that 'radius' is half a circle. It is not. the geometric term radius refers to 1/2 of a given diameter. Diameters are straight lines between 2 given points, and therefore contain no arc. The same line connecting the end points of an arc is called a chord. Where this comes into play in cue construction is the fact that by putting a flare on the leading and trailing edge of a thread, this will create that arc effect and thereby the pin will make contact with a larger surface area. And it will. However, whether an additional contact area of a couple % translates into a more sound hit is quite disputable. I have not seen any valid math to substantiate this claim. I do believe, however, that a radial is one of the better designs for cue construction out there. I also like the standard 3/8x10 Very solid.
 
I'd always heard that it was the type of thread used in a "bone screw" used in surgery to repair broken bones.
 
Hidy Ho said:
You have better eyes than me ... from those fuzzy phone photos.

Most non-UniLoc radial pins I've seen are brass.
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They come in brass, ss, G10, alum and SS.
The chinese knockoffs ( Omega, Varner, older MG, Schmelke ) have short pilots and have a different thread pitch and pattern.
 
So there are Uni-Loc, Schmelke (Chinese), whatever Paul Drexler uses and ER/Mezz Wavy Joint that goes by "radial pin" name/description right? Although each of them have diffrent specs. Any more?
 
Hidy Ho said:
So there are Uni-Loc, Schmelke (Chinese), whatever Paul Drexler uses and ER/Mezz Wavy Joint that goes by "radial pin" name/description right? Although each of them have diffrent specs. Any more?
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Yup, I don't know of any more.
 
when you break the skinny bone in your forearm, its the pin they use to put it back together with.
 
The pin you have is a Chinese radial probably KaoKao. Show me the rest of the cue and I can tell you what model.
 
bobsbilliards said:
The post by Tommy B was mostly correct. The radial pins from China are not interchangeable with American radials. One objection though is the statement that 'radius' is half a circle. It is not. the geometric term radius refers to 1/2 of a given diameter. Diameters are straight lines between 2 given points, and therefore contain no arc. The same line connecting the end points of an arc is called a chord. Where this comes into play in cue construction is the fact that by putting a flare on the leading and trailing edge of a thread, this will create that arc effect and thereby the pin will make contact with a larger surface area. And it will. However, whether an additional contact area of a couple % translates into a more sound hit is quite disputable. I have not seen any valid math to substantiate this claim. I do believe, however, that a radial is one of the better designs for cue construction out there. I also like the standard 3/8x10 Very solid.
Click to expand...

Man, do we have a brain trust on AZ or what !?!
It's this kind of stuff that puts AZB 'FORUMS' over the top.
 
I invented the Radial pin and gave it the name "Radial".
I designed the Radial on my computer and had Uni-Loc make it.
The name radial means nothing but was inspired my the ball screws on my CNC.
I made it available for every cuemaker to use.

The first cue using the Radial pin I sent to John Wright for resale.
He said "This will never work". Guess he was wrong.

The Chinese copy has a different thread and is usually hollow inside.

Bill Stroud
 
rackem said:
The pin you have is a Chinese radial probably KaoKao. Show me the rest of the cue and I can tell you what model.
Click to expand...

By the ringwork, it looks like a Hammerhead brand cue, as was sold at one time on Freddy Bentivegna's website (through West Coast Billiard Supply, if I'm not mistaken). I have two of these cues, and I must say, Chinese-made/-knockoff as they are, they are well-made, have a great balance/feel, and a nice "ping-ey" woody hit. The only gripe with this cue is that the maker (Kao Kao?) used hide glue when installing the Irish Linen Wrap, and after using the cue for a bit with sweaty hands, that Irish Linen STINKS!!! We're talking the most putrid smell I think I've ever took a whiff of. I'm reminded of sitting on the NYC subway system, sat next to one of the "Onion People" (i.e. the homeless -- you sit next to one, and your eyes tear as if you're chopping onions). I use a rubber carom grip on mine, as shown in my avatar photo, to prevent any moisture from my hand from touching that Irish Linen, and, well, to get a better grip since I don't like Irish Linen anyway.

Concerning the pin, the dies and arbors are available for those cuemakers looking to service these cues. My local cue repairman was able to get dies/arbors for the Chinese knock-off of this radial pin from, methinks, Atlas Billiard Supplies.

Anyway, I hope this helps,
-Sean
 
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