What happened here?

[JC]

I recently acquired a veneer ring punch from Deco and this is the first cue I tried it on. Fortunately this cue is being built as a father/daughter project with my 5 year old. She picked out every part of it from the wood pile. The butt sleeve is bloodwood (handle paduak) and the cap is juma. There are 2 .015 black fiber rings outside the stitch ring. I am trying to figure out what happened to the orange veneer ring. There are 6 other ones on the cue that look fine. I took the first rough cut and noticed it and now I have cut it down to final size hoping to find that missing orange spot. So I guess it's going to remain a flaw on this cue when she hands it down to her grand daughter some day.

But I'm trying to figure out what went wrong so I don't do it again. I glued it with west systems and a clamp putting the final rings on along with the cap after I faced the sleeve which I glued on first. I don't think it broke out when I slid it together but I'm not sure why it would be solid black in there instead of clear epoxy if it had. Any tips on using veneer rings would be appreciated.

Thanks,

JC

 

[MVPCues]

The black fiber ring was pushed over by the cutter and more or less melted to the cue causing it to widen and partially obscure the orange ring. Look at the orange ring behind it. It looks thinner than the orange ring in front, and the black fiber ring looks fatter than the other one. It pushed over a little all the way around, but in that one section enough of the fiber ring pushed so far it is completely covering the orange ring.

A cleanup cut taking a small amount off with a sharp cutter should take care of it. Some good sanding might as well.

Did you carefully whittle down the assembled, proud, and possibly uneven rings when taking the first cut? Or did you take largish cuts on after assembly cleanup?

 

[JoeyInCali]

Too rough of a cut .
You need that blade sharpened or slow idown the feed.

Picture attached is a fresh rough cut I just did yesterday.
You can see some "checkering" from the cutting .
But, it's much smoother .
I think your blade gouged and pulled that veneer.
You might want to use scissors to trim them down almost flush to the sleeve and butt plate so they get pulled so much before turning .

 

[JC]

The black fiber ring was pushed over by the cutter and more or less melted to the cue causing it to widen and partially obscure the orange ring. Look at the orange ring behind it. It looks thinner than the orange ring in front, and the black fiber ring looks fatter than the other one. It pushed over a little all the way around, but in that one section enough of the fiber ring pushed so far it is completely covering the orange ring.

A cleanup cut taking a small amount off with a sharp cutter should take care of it. Some good sanding might as well.

Did you carefully whittle down the assembled, proud, and possibly uneven rings when taking the first cut? Or did you take largish cuts on after assembly cleanup?

Thanks Kelly,

I don't recall as it's been sitting for a couple months prior to today but I do remember the orange rings were not the smallest element there. The stitch ring was smaller than both the fiber and the veneer. Maybe I should cut larger ones in the future? It's funny because after the initial cut I took off .010 at a time and never saw orange there. I will try your advice. Will go slower in the future.

JC

 

[JC]

Too rough of a cut .
You need that blade sharpened or slow idown the feed.

Picture attached is a fresh rough cut I just did yesterday.
You can see some "checkering" from the cutting .
But, it's much smoother .
I think your blade gouged and pulled that veneer.
You might want to use scissors to trim them down almost flush to the sleeve and butt plate so they get pulled so much.

Thank you. Another question, what is the proper angle to grind the teeth on my saw machine? I have been having them ground flat, is that right? I will put on a fresh blade and run the feed slower.

JC

 

[MVPCues]

Thanks Kelly,

I don't recall as it's been sitting for a couple months prior to today but I do remember the orange rings were not the smallest element there. The stitch ring was smaller than both the fiber and the veneer. Maybe I should cut larger ones in the future? It's funny because after the initial cut I took off .010 at a time and never saw orange there. I will try your advice. Will go slower in the future.

JC

Hmmm. That really doesn't make any sense unless each cut it just kept pushing it over. I would take a blade and scrape looking for orange. If your saw flat out ripped the veneer from the cue, I would expect trauma and a void showing. I can't imagine that happened with such a clean black fill left behind.

 

[GBCues]

I'm not one to argue with Kelly, but on my PC, there is clearly a void where the orange ring was pulled out - in the picture I can see the edges on the upper black fiber ring and lower edge of the butt cap where the ring used to be. But the void only appears to be 1/32 or less deep.
Can you fell anything there? Or is it absolutely smooth? For my observations to be correct, the ring would only have been 1/32 or less deep at that point. Is that possible?
My 2 cents,
Gary

 

[MVPCues]

I'm not one to argue with Kelly, but on my PC, there is clearly a void where the orange ring was pulled out - in the picture I can see the edges on the upper black fiber ring and lower edge of the butt cap where the ring used to be. But the void only appears to be 1/32 or less deep.
Can you fell anything there? Or is it absolutely smooth? For my observations to be correct, the ring would only have been 1/32 or less deep at that point. Is that possible?
My 2 cents,
Gary

I don't see a void but I can't say that you don't. Maybe you are right. It could actually be color shades on monitors obscuring it for me.

I would assume the ID of the ring was .750. That would make me think a void would be huge and dramatic. It looks smooth to me from the pic.

 

[JC]

I don't see a void but I can't say that you don't. Maybe you are right. It could actually be color shades on monitors obscuring it for me.

I would assume the ID of the ring was .750. That would make me think a void would be huge and dramatic. It looks smooth to me from the pic.

Yes it was a .750 tenon so there was a lot of veneer there. The first time I cut it it looked like that and it was about .060 oversized. I kept expecting it to clean up and now it's down to final size and it never did. There is no void there to speak of and there wasn't on any of the shaves. At least not a void the size of that ring.

I dug for it a little more with a sharp bit and sanded it with no luck. I think I'm going to cut the butt cap and rings off a layer at a time and see what happened. I will let you know what I see.

Thanks for all the input,

JC

 

[Paul Dayton]

Whatever the case may be and I don't think the phenolic was smeared over any orange, the good/great news is that it is as easy a fix as is possible. Turn off the butt cap and orange ring, then replace them. Any other damaged orange ring would be way more trouble.

 

[JC]

Well a whole chunk of the veneer cracked off and fell out and I didn't notice it. The void was full of epoxy reflecting black from the fiber ring making it look black. I cut up a bunch of veneer rings to test the Deco cutter and for some reason those orange ones were really fragile compared to most of the other ones. I broke a bunch of them along the way. But my little girl wanted that orange veneer there so I used it anyway. Don't know where that piece went without my noticing it but oh well. At least it wasn't the cutter. I'm just learning. The hard way

I'm planning to cut it back to the stitch ring and try again.

Thanks again,

JC

 

[MVPCues]

Whatever the case may be and I don't think the phenolic was smeared over any orange, the good/great news is that it is as easy a fix as is possible. Turn off the butt cap and orange ring, then replace them. Any other damaged orange ring would be way more trouble.

Black fiber, not phenolic. The black fiber did smear a little over the edge of the orange ring from the pic.

 

[MVPCues]

Well a whole chunk of the veneer cracked off and fell out and I didn't notice it. The void was full of epoxy reflecting black from the fiber ring making it look black. I cut up a bunch of veneer rings to test the Deco cutter and for some reason those orange ones were really fragile compared to most of the other ones. I broke a bunch of them along the way. But my little girl wanted that orange veneer there so I used it anyway. Don't know where that piece went without my noticing it but oh well. At least it wasn't the cutter. I'm just learning. The hard way

I'm planning to cut it back to the stitch ring and try again.

Thanks again,

JC

View attachment 425597

At least the mystery is solved! Sure looked like solid black material on my monitor.

 

[skins]

That pic says a thousand words.. To me it looks like the orange ring cracked when being glued up and spread out under preasure and the epoxy filled the void... Could be the other expl though too..

 

[Sheldon]

Hydraulic pressure is a #%$&!

 

[skins]

Hydraulic pressure is a #%$&!

Now thats funny right there....:wink:

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

Picture of ring punch

I recently acquired a veneer ring punch from Deco and this is the first cue I tried it on. Fortunately this cue is being built as a father/daughter project with my 5 year old. She picked out every part of it from the wood pile. The butt sleeve is bloodwood (handle paduak) and the cap is juma. There are 2 .015 black fiber rings outside the stitch ring. I am trying to figure out what happened to the orange veneer ring. There are 6 other ones on the cue that look fine. I took the first rough cut and noticed it and now I have cut it down to final size hoping to find that missing orange spot. So I guess it's going to remain a flaw on this cue when she hands it down to her grand daughter some day.

But I'm trying to figure out what went wrong so I don't do it again. I glued it with west systems and a clamp putting the final rings on along with the cap after I faced the sleeve which I glued on first. I don't think it broke out when I slid it together but I'm not sure why it would be solid black in there instead of clear epoxy if it had. Any tips on using veneer rings would be appreciated.

Thanks,

JC

View attachment 425571

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View attachment 425574

How does the ring punch work ?
I would like to see a picture of it if possible.

Been cutting my veneer rings with a laser engraver ..