What happened to mens pool ?
- Thread starter feldz23
- Start date
I am one that is most definately tired of the same old re-runs. I have heard that there is tons of footage of men's pool tournaments from years past in ESPN's archives. I wish to heck they would air some of them in the near future!!!
Maniac
> This is the way I heard it.
PBTA Commisioner Don Mackey was in negotiations with ESPN. They were offering to televise the semi-finals and finals of 4 different events,with 90 minute time slots so ideally you could see every game,races to 11,which would total 12 totally new programs,but also wanted to do a pro-am type thing where the pros played with cheerleaders,etc.
Don said something to effect of "we're not turning pool into The Gong Show",and basically told ESPN to kiss his ass. There were a few matches televised by Prime Network down the road,but nothing resembling an ongoing coverage deal.
There is another thread on here about Don Mackey from the last week or so,check that out if you want to know more. Tommy D.
PBTA Commisioner Don Mackey was in negotiations with ESPN. They were offering to televise the semi-finals and finals of 4 different events,with 90 minute time slots so ideally you could see every game,races to 11,which would total 12 totally new programs,but also wanted to do a pro-am type thing where the pros played with cheerleaders,etc.
Don said something to effect of "we're not turning pool into The Gong Show",and basically told ESPN to kiss his ass. There were a few matches televised by Prime Network down the road,but nothing resembling an ongoing coverage deal.
There is another thread on here about Don Mackey from the last week or so,check that out if you want to know more. Tommy D.
I have just returned to the game and was wondering almost the same thing.
What has happened to men's pool in general, including, but not limited to, tv???
What has happened to men's pool in general, including, but not limited to, tv???
This is just no interest in Pool on tv. Public or from Corporate Sponsors. Pool is just too slow and uneventful to most watchers of ESPN. Pool players, like to watch pro men on tv playing in matches, but there is not enough of them watching. Womens pool is just there for filler time and plus the fact they are an organized group with sponsors. The ratings for womens pool is very low. The play is very slow and the announcers narrate the matches as if pool is the most complex game to play. Plus the clapping after EVERY F'n shot is just to painful to watch and listen too...
Yes, I find this most disappointing, as well. Actually, though, I've been heartened recently as there has been some men's matches within the past month, or so. Semi's and finals of '09 Tournament of Champions and a '93 match between Strickland and Django. I believe that part of the problem too is that the WPBA and its members have been willing to have smaller purses, in order to afford the ESPN coverage.
I am really not concerned with pool on tv anymore. I think they did a crappy job anyway. you never seen live pool period. it was very untimely and cut up so bad you see about 7 out of 17 games played.
besides that tv is not that healthy itself. with all the stuff online, tv has to be suffering. i can see a bigger scramble coming with the networks and companys. some of that has allready started.
we have alot of pool online. it has to evolve a bit more. streamers that are worthy of a small ppv for their efforts will start to cover the expenses that they try to fade by using sponsers and raffles. i think the combination of all these things will be used in the future. BUT we will have LIVE coverage of all the pool in the country !
besides that tv is not that healthy itself. with all the stuff online, tv has to be suffering. i can see a bigger scramble coming with the networks and companys. some of that has allready started.
we have alot of pool online. it has to evolve a bit more. streamers that are worthy of a small ppv for their efforts will start to cover the expenses that they try to fade by using sponsers and raffles. i think the combination of all these things will be used in the future. BUT we will have LIVE coverage of all the pool in the country !
If everyone seems to have great concerns about watching pool on tv, than order Accu-stat videos and keep them in business. You would be getting a great produced product along with great matches. At least the matches would be more current than what espn shows in Mens Pool.
I just don't understand why people who post on this forum have some need to want to watch years or months old pool matches on espn. The reality is that ESPN has and never will have any interest what so ever in Mens pool tournaments Period. Trick shot magic and Tournament of Champions is all that you will see. Months after the fact. Races to 11 have been reduced to 7 for "TV". Call, email or write ESPN and post your results on this forum.
I just don't understand why people who post on this forum have some need to want to watch years or months old pool matches on espn. The reality is that ESPN has and never will have any interest what so ever in Mens pool tournaments Period. Trick shot magic and Tournament of Champions is all that you will see. Months after the fact. Races to 11 have been reduced to 7 for "TV". Call, email or write ESPN and post your results on this forum.
first of all the women have their Sh*t together Far and away better than the men.
Secondly the women are pretty, no one cares what men look like and it doesn't help that the men are all cookie cutter players....not one original.
You gotta be more than a bump on a stump that can run bawls.....like the fat man said you can't play pool if ain't no one watching.....you got to give them a reason to watch.
Its not 1920 no more, no one cares about the properness of pool....the players should open their mouths and say something sometimes....the MEN BORE THE F*K OUT OF ME. The only entertaining man i ever see on TV is a few of the trick shot guys like Massey and Earl is the only pool player i give the nod to in that area. Love him or hate him at least he makes you react. Everyone else just runs balls and no one cares about cold calculation.....why do you think they like poker on tv so much? Because there are some amazing characters on there it has nothing to do with a stupid card game.
Secondly the women are pretty, no one cares what men look like and it doesn't help that the men are all cookie cutter players....not one original.
You gotta be more than a bump on a stump that can run bawls.....like the fat man said you can't play pool if ain't no one watching.....you got to give them a reason to watch.
Its not 1920 no more, no one cares about the properness of pool....the players should open their mouths and say something sometimes....the MEN BORE THE F*K OUT OF ME. The only entertaining man i ever see on TV is a few of the trick shot guys like Massey and Earl is the only pool player i give the nod to in that area. Love him or hate him at least he makes you react. Everyone else just runs balls and no one cares about cold calculation.....why do you think they like poker on tv so much? Because there are some amazing characters on there it has nothing to do with a stupid card game.
One reason !
Well put Ghost ! The general public doesnt even understand the game ,so it takes something other than just running balls for them to watch pool on TV .
I personally dont find any of the men players sexy ,so how can they compete with some of the sexy ladies playing today ? The over the top personalities and outrageous antics draws attention . Thats what the joe blow public want to watch ! Add some great shooting with that ,and you have entertaining television !
Well put Ghost ! The general public doesnt even understand the game ,so it takes something other than just running balls for them to watch pool on TV .
I personally dont find any of the men players sexy ,so how can they compete with some of the sexy ladies playing today ? The over the top personalities and outrageous antics draws attention . Thats what the joe blow public want to watch ! Add some great shooting with that ,and you have entertaining television !
exactly why do you think the forigen promoters always want earl there at their tourney, even tho everyone is supposed to hate him lol.....its because love him or hate him he's got your attention! For the same reason I always liked to watch Alex P play....he's a amazing player and has a wonderful attitude and he just looks EXCITED, and EXCITEMENT CREATES EXCITEMENT.
I think once we see the full evolution of online streaming pool won't need tv for coverage. Sponsors along with perhaps a small fee from viewers will make it feasible.
???
But it shouldn't be "the general public" watching pool on TV. It should be the 50 million Americans who participate in a pool game at least once a week that should be watching. Pool is the #1 participation sport in America. You'd think some of the millions would tune in to watch the game they love, wouldn't you???
Maniac
Even still, earl and Alex are exceptions to the rules. They have those dynamic personalities and they mostly, can get away with it. I agree it is good for the game, but not everyone is made that way. Efren is Efren, Buddy is Buddy, and Johnny is Johnny. If you were to ask them to be something differently, I bet their games would suffer. It is just the personality of the individual.
I do however think tha announcers could do a far better job of conveying those personalities and talk much more about them. Just let people know that there really is bllod running through those veins>
I have always thought announcers could do a far better job of pointing out crusical situations and what exactly players are thinking about or avoiding during the course of a run. Then, maybe, the game would not seem so boring and routine after all!
I admire a great stanc and stroke as well as anyone, but nevr has there been an exact stance, stroke, or even science about this game. Different things work differently for different players.I do think much more could be done to exploit the psychological sideof the game and exactly what might be running through players minds during the course of matches.
I wish they would talk more about players backgrounds and discuss more with them as to why they chose the game and what keeps them in it! Some stories I feel would be very intresting, and some would or could be quite sad, depending on your perspectives.
May claim this to be a great game and others are stuck focusing on the Seedy side of the game. Well, isn't it time to bring this to the forefront and see it as it really is. Honestly, what damage could be done now. It ain't an olympic sport and let's face it, it never will be. What is there to lose??
If you ever want some intresting insights to the game, catch ronnie Allen at a tournament and just sit through one match with him. One might be very surprised what comes from his mouth and what you might learn in just a few short games.Others are just as intresting, such as Bill Incordona, Ed Kelly, Buddy, and many many more.
I have never felt ESPN has done any justice to the game, and harmed it. Live streaming is becomeing more and more popular and I'm not sure how I feel about that yet, but results don't seem very promising there either. Noe of the streamers like to talk numbers yet??
The answers, I'm not sure!! I feel strongly that after what has happened over the past 30 years,,,,ain't working at all!
You do have a point as well Maniac .
in referance to streaming i think it is very critical to have exciting commentary. some commentators are very boring and do not know much about the game or the players. no commentary is the pits ! anyones stream will be much more enjoyable with a knowledgable and exciting host. streamers cannot expect to get people to buy a ppv without it !
I hesitated to reply to this, since most of the posters I've read are highly active and knowledbeable, not to mention informed on current pool related topics. I on the other hand are new to the forum and just picking up the game again. I decided to post something anyway (why not, I'm not doing anything at work anyhow).
I would agree with GreyGhost in that pool needs a colourful character that Joe Public can relate to, a "Happy Gilmore" of pool to arouse the interest of America and shed new light on our beloved sport. However, I see several road-blocks in the way.
First is that similar to golf, etiquette is largely ingrained in the sport and colourful characters often involve loud individuals and boisterious activities. In the few small local tournaments I have attended, stepping outside of the accepted demeanor is often met with intolerance. I am not talking about table dancing or riding my cue, but even joking around is often frowned upon. I believe it would be difficult to adjust the normal behaviours associated with pool.
The second road-block has already been touched upon...change! The thought of changing the number of games to fit in for television has previously cost the sport ESPN coverage, among other things, due to inflexibility of the sport in order to maintain historical consistencies. I parallel this type of change to the new rules instilled in the volleyball rules over the past 10 years, which were in a large part initiated to accommodate television time-slots. Since then, coverage and popularity of the sport has increased significantly (then again...they do have bikini clad women!).
Just my 5 cents worth
I would agree with GreyGhost in that pool needs a colourful character that Joe Public can relate to, a "Happy Gilmore" of pool to arouse the interest of America and shed new light on our beloved sport. However, I see several road-blocks in the way.
First is that similar to golf, etiquette is largely ingrained in the sport and colourful characters often involve loud individuals and boisterious activities. In the few small local tournaments I have attended, stepping outside of the accepted demeanor is often met with intolerance. I am not talking about table dancing or riding my cue, but even joking around is often frowned upon. I believe it would be difficult to adjust the normal behaviours associated with pool.
The second road-block has already been touched upon...change! The thought of changing the number of games to fit in for television has previously cost the sport ESPN coverage, among other things, due to inflexibility of the sport in order to maintain historical consistencies. I parallel this type of change to the new rules instilled in the volleyball rules over the past 10 years, which were in a large part initiated to accommodate television time-slots. Since then, coverage and popularity of the sport has increased significantly (then again...they do have bikini clad women!).
Just my 5 cents worth
IM with OLDZILLA
What Happened??
It really doesn't matter anymore what happened to Men's Pool. What are the Men going to do Now,and for the Future?
For the record,I worked at the BCA in the early 90's. John Lewis,at the time BCA League and Programs Director,was involved with trying to handle the difficult problems of the PBTA-Mackey,along with the political turmoil of Allen Hopkins Valley Forge Trade Show,seen as a threat to the Vegas BCA Trade Show,and getting the Men Pro's to participate in BCA Supported WPA Tournaments. Having to juggle phone calls between Allen Hopkins,Nick Varner,Mike Massey,and others in the Pro Tour to figure out how to solve the PBTA situation,he displayed the patience of Job!!
Right now,with all that in the past, I see Mark Griffin and his Organization, as being the entity capable of developing an infrastructure to bring about a sustainable Men's Professional Organization. This will require years and a great deal of patience from all involved.
It really doesn't matter anymore what happened to Men's Pool. What are the Men going to do Now,and for the Future?
For the record,I worked at the BCA in the early 90's. John Lewis,at the time BCA League and Programs Director,was involved with trying to handle the difficult problems of the PBTA-Mackey,along with the political turmoil of Allen Hopkins Valley Forge Trade Show,seen as a threat to the Vegas BCA Trade Show,and getting the Men Pro's to participate in BCA Supported WPA Tournaments. Having to juggle phone calls between Allen Hopkins,Nick Varner,Mike Massey,and others in the Pro Tour to figure out how to solve the PBTA situation,he displayed the patience of Job!!
Right now,with all that in the past, I see Mark Griffin and his Organization, as being the entity capable of developing an infrastructure to bring about a sustainable Men's Professional Organization. This will require years and a great deal of patience from all involved.