What happened to pool?

mattb said:
So to you two wrongs made a right? I understand what you are saying and why it happened but it happened well before Mackey and the rest of the bunch. Maybe the problem is too many controlling (or wanna be controlling) bodies in the pool management business.

Maybe Greg Sullivan is onto something with his tournament (DCC) and maybe if he does more that can take over as a standard. Might be a good thing.
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no I don't think 2 wrongs make a right at all. Everyone should be accountable for his own actions.
Too many chiefs?? I agree with you there. As in all walks some have very good intentions and some don't. That is just life.
What Greg does is a very good thing. It has to be an exhausting undertaking and one few seem to be able or even want to do. He is the first to succeed at such since the jansco Brothers in the 60s and 70s. i wish him much success and anyone else who tries.
 
I'll not further the APA argument that Bolo Ocho insist on foisting upon us, yet again, save for this last thought....

Let's assume all of the stuff he complains about is true. (I don't agree, but I know that many here do.) Even if all of that stuff is accurate, exactly where is the pro product that he wishes more APA players were more informed about? Exactly how does joe-sixpack watch and/or follow "pro" pool here in the US?

I am an APA player, and because I wanted to know more about pool I started searching the internet. I did that because I am at least a little bit internet savvy. I found AZB, where I learned about most everything I know about the pool world. There really isn't any other place to get information on the web. (Thanks once again, Mike!)

And that's it. Because I am willing to prowl around on the net, I discovered this place, and the world of "pool". I ask you, Bolo Ocho Grilled Cheese, why do you blame APA players for not knowing anything about professional pool players? How exactly would they ever find out about them? Who are they, where do they play, when do they play? You and I know, because we are here. So that gives us a pool of what, approximately 35,000 AZB members who have the ability to know anything about "pro" pool in the US?

"Pro" pool doesn't exist to mainstream Americans, and that includes league players, especially APA players. There is no exposure to it. There is no tour. There are many tournaments, but unless you live in the community where they take place, there will be no advertising or exposure for it. Even then I expect the bulk of the attention comes from word of mouth, or in-house advertising. How would I, living out here in the middle of nowhere, ever learn anything about what is going on in this game, without having found AZB?

Here is the hypothetical for you: wave your magic cuestick and make the APA go away tomorrow. Poof. Now you can begin your program to save pool in the US. Tell me how you are going to get people to start playing. Tell me how they are going to want to come out every week (or sometimes many times a week) and play, and buy stuff from the places that they play. Both food/beverages, and equipment. Tell me how there will even be places to play, that are still open. And most importantly to the argument at hand, tell me how YOU will insure that YOUR way will provide that all the people, newly exposed to pool in your program, will seek out (and find) information on "pro" pool here in the US, and then what will make them support it.

Yes, I'm quite sure that the APA is the problem with pool in the US, because none of the players know who SVB is. Sheesh.

Does it frustrate me that more APA players don't know anything about our game, sure. But if they aren't interested in finding out, why is that such a problem? I bet that there are a good number of recreational golfers that don't know many names beyond the very biggest 10-20 or so, and those guys are on TV all the time. How about all the people that bowl, do you suppose they could name a pro bowler? I bet even with all the exposure that poker has gotten, a good number of recreational poker players around this country can't name more than a handful of players. And again, those people are on TV a lot.

When you have a pro product to sell, get back to me.
 
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Nothing happened to pool...it goes in cycles. Boom, then bust. Rooms come and go. It's regional, too. Some places stay hot, some grow cold. Rooms fail because they're run poorly, or their location goes to hell, or they get zoned/taxed to death (usually on purpose), all of the above, etc. I was really disappointed last time I was in Houston...my brother and I went to four different pool rooms between Westeimer and Katy (where we cut our teeth playing years ago) to find that the neighborhoods had completely changed...very bad areas, the rooms were practically empty and looked not long for this world. Of course, there are some great rooms in the area, just not where we grew up. :(

Of course my love for pool is never appreciated by my colleagues...as soon as non-pool playing friends see my speed, their reaction is "ah...a miss-spent youth." It was never appreciated in my profession (Army officer). I remember back in 1991 I qualified for the Nationals in the Coors Light World Series of Bar Games in Vegas...won entry and air fare. My Company Commander (wherever he is) is still laughing today over that request for leave. I ended up going to Fort Irwin (the National Training Center) instead and was tortured as I could actually see the lights of Las Vegas over the mountains as I froze my a$$ off in the desert. My infatuation with pool gave most of my bosses the impression that I wasn't much of "an officer and a gentleman". I formally quit the Officers' Club at Fort Polk when the General's wife had the pool tables removed "because it was low class and not appropriate for the O'Club." My wife isn't very impressed, either, but at least she's patient about it...I remind her all the time that I had a high end custom pool cue in my hand when we met. Lately she's letting me out of the house more to try and find my game again.

In my 30 years of playing all over the U.S. and Europe, I've seen the ebb and flow...as far as I can tell, there's still just as much action (except now with the Internet it's almost impossible to be anonymous anymore) and there are a lot more high level tournaments/tours (regional) than there were before. If your passion is playing pool at a high level, you probably have an easier time finding it now than 30 years ago, without getting your head cut in the attempt.

Everybody that thinks "pool has gone to hell" is wearing rose-colored glasses. It is what it's always been, you just might have to look around to find it...just because the local hall you played in the past 5 years closed doesn't mean the game has changed. As far as youth programs go, my program was sneeking out of school at lunchtime to play at a tavern downtown with another juvenile delinquent...I still see kids like that sneeking into rooms I play in.
 
Grilled Cheese said:
The vast majority of APA players have no clue whatsoever who SVB is. They don't know who Efren is. Most have no clue there's a Mosconi Cup. The level of ignorance about pro pool, the players, the tournaments and such is extreme in the APA.
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All that matters is that league players think APA 7s are gods. What's wrong with that? :grin-square:

Additionally, who gives a flying **** what the APA players think. They keep pools halls going. Without them pool would be really dead - of course you don't understand this.
 
The good old days always sound better than the one you are living. The stories that remain are the highlight reel.

The one constant here is that people keep saying how they just missed the glory days...regardless of how old they are. Unless you are 120 years old, you missed pool's heyday by a loooong way.
 
justadub said:
I am an APA player, and because I wanted to know more about pool I started searching the internet. I did that because I am at least a little bit internet savvy. I found AZB, where I learned about most everything I know about the pool world. There really isn't any other place to get information on the web. (Thanks once again, Mike!)

Because I am willing to prowl around on the net, I discovered this place, and the world of "pool". I ask you, Bolo Ocho Grilled Cheese, why do you blame APA players for not knowing anything about professional pool players? How exactly would they ever find out about them? Who are they, where do they play, when do they play? You and I know, because we are here. So that gives us a pool of what, approximately 35,000 AZB members who have the ability to know anything about "pro" pool in the US?

How would I, living out here in the middle of nowhere, ever learn anything about what is going on in this game, without having found AZB?
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And......at least in MY case, most of the people I talk to in poolhalls have never even heard of AZB. Oh, there's a few that know of it and post here, but whenever I tell someone about this site that has never heard of it, it is rarely that they even take the time to check it out. To say that pool has very little exposure in America is a vast understatement. It is a small wonder that poolhalls have any customer base at all in this day and age with the little exposure pool gets here in the U.S.A.

Good post, 'dub!!!

Maniac
 
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